The Fisher won't draft a QB theory

[PressureD41]

Door number 1, please.

The thing that worries me the most about the Rams not drafting a QB is that they gave Keenum a 1st round tender. I understand its to insure they wouldnt lose him, but if they only view him as a bridge QB til they get a rookie up to speed I'm not sure why they wouldnt prefer the 2nd round pick they would have gotten had some team actually been willing to give up a 2nd for keenum. I guess you could argue keeping Keenum was insurance in case they cant get a QB they like, but I still feel like it would have been better to have the 2nd and get a bridge QB another way.

I agree to disagree on the thought of tagging Keenum w/ a 2nd rd trader and "assuming" there would be takers. Keen is a JAG w/ no upside so even w/ a lower tag i don't see a team attempting to sign Keenum. JMHO

I honestly expect the Rams to have a better year this year than last regardless of whether they draft a QB this year. That said, until they acquire a realistic long-term solution, they will be in QB purgatory. Not drafting one this year leaves us in the same position next....the same stable of mediocre options with limited upside. Outside of having a pretty remarkable year, I don't see Fisher making it into next year under that scenario. The fans won't have a stomach for it. He has to address it.

Yes the Rams need to add a 1st rd QB to "sell hope" to the fan base, but I'm not so sure you can lump Fisher job security to "hope".

 

[Wisconsinram]

"Yes the Rams need to add a 1st rd QB to "sell hope" to the fan base, but I'm not so sure you can lump Fisher job security to "hope"."

PressureD, I agree with your premise and can't predict what will happen.

I would feel, however, there would be a pretty good chance Fisher doesn't get invited back for his 6th year unless he has a good year (i.e. playoffs as one barometer) OR has an adequate season (say, 9-7 with no playoffs as an example) with some "hope" at the most important position. Personally, I think one of those two things needs to happen for him to survive.

I'm wrong a LOT though!

 

[Hey Man]

Fisher's first year is a mulligan year because of the complete rebuild, and he still went 7-8-1. Every single year afterward was marred by QB injury and poor QB play. Bradford was probably the only guy who's been through here the past 4 years who was an actual fit for the offense. But since he couldn't stay healthy, it was plug-n-play in 2013 and 2014. Not his fault, really. In 2015 they tried to make at least a lateral move by signing Nick Foles while simultaneously dumping the salary (and injury history) of Bradford. To double down, they got Keenum back and drafted Mannion. Through all of that, the team still stayed competitive.

Two ways to look at it.

1. If I'm Fisher (and Snead), I'm probably sick of having my fortunes decided by the lack of reliability and stability of the QB position. So I'm gonna address it early in the draft once and for all, even if it costs my first 3 picks and 2 future picks. Then I'll take measures to get him up to speed quickly so I can insert him in the offense sooner rather than later - like I did with Gurley. I trust my ability to evaluate talent, so I'm getting a QB who needs less of a learning curve. Boom. Done.

2. If I'm Fisher and Snead, I know I addressed this already by drafting Mannion and I'm okay with rolling with Keenum early unless or until he shows he can't (or doesn't) take advantage of opportunities to score points that show up on film. I'm also willing to help our QBs by drafting the best playmakers on offense I can find with our first 3 picks. Then I'm setting my sights on the draft and free agency in 2017, and telling all of my current QBs that's the plan, so that I can minimize my risk of complacency at the QB position going forward. I trust my ability to evaluate talent, so I know I'm okay with Sean at some point during this coming year (if necessary). Boom. Done.

#2, because I feel that none of the Qbs are worth moving up for and neither one is going to be better starting this year than Keenum.

 

[thirteen28]

I don't. That decision is Kroenke's, and I don't think he makes it based on whether or not they pick a QB this year.

I personally think he probably earns another mulligan year in Stan's eyes given the move and all that surrounds it, unless it becomes something like a total 3-13 disaster. People won't like hearing that, but if I had to bet on how Stan views it, that's where I'd put my money.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I personally think he probably earns another mulligan year in Stan's eyes given the move and all that surrounds it, unless it becomes something like a total 3-13 disaster. People won't like hearing that, but if I had to bet on how Stan views it, that's where I'd put my money.

Me too, 13|28.

 

[Mackeyser]

I agree to disagree on the thought of tagging Keenum w/ a 2nd rd trader and "assuming" there would be takers. Keen is a JAG w/ no upside so even w/ a lower tag i don't see a team attempting to sign Keenum. JMHO



Yes the Rams need to add a 1st rd QB to "sell hope" to the fan base, but I'm not so sure you can lump Fisher job security to "hope".

They originally did the 2nd round tender and bumped it to the first round tender once they realized Denver was legit interested.

Now, plenty of fans may not like Keenum or think he's barely a JAG of whatever, but the Broncos were very likely going to spend that late 2nd on Keenum. The Rams had to have had enough intel to warrant the higher tender. It wasn't the original tender, so they learned something after the initial offer and the Rams didn't want to lose Keenum.

 

[Ram65]

Two ways to look at it.

1. If I'm Fisher (and Snead), I'm probably sick of having my fortunes decided by the lack of reliability and stability of the QB position. So I'm gonna address it early in the draft once and for all, even if it costs my first 3 picks and 2 future picks. Then I'll take measures to get him up to speed quickly so I can insert him in the offense sooner rather than later - like I did with Gurley. I trust my ability to evaluate talent, so I'm getting a QB who needs less of a learning curve. Boom. Done.

I agree Fisher knows he needs a QB.

I question how fast he can and will put in a high draft choice rookie QB. Keenum is the safe guy. Goff, Wentz and Lynch are the choices with many thinking Goff is the most ready. If the Rams are winning enough with Keenum to be in contention for a playoff spot, I'm not sure Fisher makes a move to the rookie franchise QB. Not the same as asking a rookie running back to take over the running load.

 

[-X-]

Now, plenty of fans may not like Keenum or think he's barely a JAG or whatever

Not me.

And it's pretty cool that we have two of the top 10 career passing yard leaders in the NCAA on this team right now.

 

[kurtfaulk]

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That list is a who's who of qbs that never made it in the nfl. Apart from rivers that is.

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[-X-]

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That list is a who's who of qbs that never made it in the nfl. Apart from rivers that is.

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True. But how shitty do you have to be to lead the entire NCAA in passing yardage for the past 60 years?

 

[kurtfaulk]

True. But how crappy do you have to be to lead the entire NCAA in passing yardage for the past 60 years?

I don't know but they may as well have been playing a different sport. Whatever they were good at didn't help them become a qb in the nfl.

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[-X-]

I don't know but they may as well have been playing a different sport. Whatever they were good at didn't help them become a qb in the nfl.

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Still can't argue with that.
But, I will say that Keenum has only played 15 games in his NFL career so far, so it would be premature (IMO) to close the book already.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Still can't argue with that.
But, I will say that Keenum has only played 15 games in his NFL career so far, so it would be premature (IMO) to close the book already.

Actually my comments are not aimed at keenum or Mannion. They are yet to be determined. I actually thought case was huge upgrade over foles and would like to see him with a full offseason with the offense to work on his game.

I agree with the sentiment you've been beating here for awhile, stock up with playmakers on offense and give keenum (or Mannion) the best chance to show he belongs.

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[Picked4td]

I agree to disagree on the thought of tagging Keenum w/ a 2nd rd trader and "assuming" there would be takers. Keen is a JAG w/ no upside so even w/ a lower tag i don't see a team attempting to sign Keenum. JMHO

Oh I never meant to give off the idea that I thought a team would sign Keenum at a 2nd rd tender. In fact quite the opposite. I highly doubt a team would sign him at a 2nd rd tender, hell maybe not even a 3rd rd. I was just saying if the Rams viewed him only as a bridge QB and not a possible long term answer, they would risk losing him if it meant theyd get a 2nd because no bridge QB is worth a 2nd.

Well, it likely would have been the last pick in the second round, just a step above a high 3rd. The Rams would have had no good options at that point - seriously, Foles would likely have been the choice. Or some other overpriced both in salary and draft pick cost retread. Even if the Rams ended up slightly ahead after factoring in draft pick gained vs any given up in trade, the extra salary would have cost a player at some point, most likely. And then they'd have had a QB who didn't know the system unless it was Foles, who they had less faith in than Keenum - a lot less faith, in the case of Foles. This way they can focus on just getting a truly better QB than Keenum, instead of having to react in a panic.

And if Keenum looks okay this year - even if he is replaced ultimately - he should get the Rams a comp pick too. Keep in mind what has happened to QB free agent salaries, after all.

Like I said, they may have just wanted to be 100% theyd keep Keenum in case they cant draft a QB they like, but the chance that isnt the case is what has me worried. I completely get what you're saying and it makes sense, its just that personally id take the 2nd over keenum and went all in on getting a QB I love in the draft.

 

[Mackeyser]

But that's just it. The Rams had good Intel AFTER they tendered him at the second round level that the Broncos were seriously interested in Keenum. They might have gotten him at that except it got out while they were still working on retaining Osweiler.

The first round tender was the only way to keep Keenum, especially after Osweiler didn't sign.

So, at least one team was gonna sign him at that 2nd round tender and the Rams disliked that enough to bump it up to the first round. Pretty sure the Rams didn't forego $1M in cash and cap space "just in case" or as a really expensive and unnecessary hedge because no one wanted him.

 

[ScotsRam]

The point that's missing from this thread so far is that Kroenke won't be dictated to by fans on the future of his coaches. He has history of sticking with his coaches and of ignoring popular opinion on their futures. As an example, Arsenal fans have run out of patience with Arsene Wenger and Kroenke has stood pat with him.

There are actually some comparisons to the Rams - Wenger kept Arsenal competitive enough to make money and keep fans interested without actually achieving much (relative to budget and fan expectation). He also oversaw a period of transition when they moved to a massive, expensive new stadium, and has been able to produce remarkable financial results for the club in that time despite the burden of stadium costs on the club.

I don't actually think it matters to Keoenke what the fans think until they stop ponying up. Unless Snish have a couple of really bad years, they're going to be here to keep this ship steady through the transition. If fans lose interest that would expedite things, but 56,000 season ticket deposits would suggest that despite some of the views here, people are prepared to pay for the current product.

 

[kurtfaulk]

The point that's missing from this thread so far is that Kroenke won't be dictated to by fans on the future of his coaches. He has history of sticking with his coaches and of ignoring popular opinion on their futures. As an example, Arsenal fans have run out of patience with Arsene Wenger and Kroenke has stood pat with him.

There are actually some comparisons to the Rams - Wenger kept Arsenal competitive enough to make money and keep fans interested without actually achieving much (relative to budget and fan expectation). He also oversaw a period of transition when they moved to a massive, expensive new stadium, and has been able to produce remarkable financial results for the club in that time despite the burden of stadium costs on the club.

I don't actually think it matters to Keoenke what the fans think until they stop ponying up. Unless Snish have a couple of really bad years, they're going to be here to keep this ship steady through the transition. If fans lose interest that would expedite things, but 56,000 season ticket deposits would suggest that despite some of the views here, people are prepared to pay for the current product.

if the rams were coming 3rd in the whole league all of us would be doing cartwheels right now. and in the epl money talks, leicester city excluded. and haven't arsenal been top 4 since stan took over?

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[ScotsRam]

if the rams were coming 3rd in the whole league all of us would be doing cartwheels right now. and in the epl money talks, leicester city excluded. and haven't arsenal been top 4 since stan took over?

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Yes, that's why I said 'relative to budget and fan expectation'. Arsenal fans want to win the league and they haven't been anywhere near it since 2004. Our barometer for success at this point is making the playoffs. 7-9 is the standard outcome. Theirs is winning the league and they're always 3rd or 4th.

It's not an exact comparison, just a demonstration that Kroenke has a history of loyalty to his coaches.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Yes, that's why I said 'relative to budget and fan expectation'. Arsenal fans want to win the league and they haven't been anywhere near it since 2004. Our barometer for success at this point is making the playoffs. 7-9 is the standard outcome. Theirs is winning the league and they're always 3rd or 4th.

It's not an exact comparison, just a demonstration that Kroenke has a history of loyalty to his coaches.

Ahhh, now i getcha.

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[Zaphod]

I'm no quarterback evaluator. And I don't know how they rate the current prospects. But I have to wonder if anyone is a true franchise quarterback. And do they view anyone as such? I have a feeling they will stay put and if there's a defensive there at 15 Fisher just can't pass on that.

Fisher loves defensive studs and stud running backs. He has his running back. He has a line that is improving and some maulers there. And you can never have too many quality defensive players for a coach that loves the ground and pound defensive battles.

Yep, chances are that an excellent defensive end, linebacker or even cornerback would be too alluring to Fisher. I think also that a top defensive pick will have a much greater both immediate and in the future.

Add this to the fact that Fisher hasn't been extended, the team moved, the offensive line being in it's second year of development.

Heck, if no one else will say it I will, this team has been brought along to make it's splash when the new stadium is built. Has been all along really.