Synthesis: My Camp Summary-to-date (based on other's reports)

[SteveBrown]

Looking for Coach O or Hammer or Fro to 'correct any errors'...thanks for your input:

Offense:

1A. The First four WR's look professional level: Britt, Quick, Bailey and Tavon
1B. Quick seems to have taken a permanent step forward in physicality. TJ Moe gets no respect.
1C. Before the years end Baily might be our best WR. That was said last camp, and they were right!

2. The Offensive line needs to get fully healthy and play together; Jake Long is nearing full recovery.

3. Everyone on the first string O line looks good, so far--when they have played...

4. Bradford looks great (he has always had an accurate gun, let's be real). Now he is comfortable, and a knows his WR's better.

5. THe backs, excepting Pead, seem to be a little behind in pass blocking.

6. Jared Cook might be a better pass blocker than we thought (good feet placement)

7. Greg Robinson can run block, and he matches up pretty well with Brockers. He is offsides a lot.

Question: HOw is his pass set as a guard...

8.Tre Mason has some wiggle and quickness as a runner; some say he will contribute a lot, some say he is marginal, and wasn't needed....where is Trai Turner...et al

9. Benny Cunningham is back to full health from college injury, and better than last year.

10. Tavon looks better in all ways, though he may not be fully integrated yet, he will make some big plays like he was doing at the end of last year.

11. Greg Z will be the best kicker Rams ever had. Move over Jeff Wilkins.


I almost feel like, assuming all five O line guys are ready, that the offense could be top10-15 this year.

For me as an 80's and 90's fan, I think for the first time ever we could have a "washington" or "dallas" style offense where the O line dominates in the run and pass game, and we have a balanced passing attack and control the ball 33-35 minutes a game--and always dominate the fourth quarter!


Add that offense to a top 8-10 Defense, then we have 10 wins, even with an impossible schedule. How can our 'D' be top 5 with a marginal FS and above average corners and an uknown in the slot??? Oh, pass rush you say.


Defense

1. Lot of talk about Brockers maturing in body and his overall play (I heard that last year, and didn't see huge improvement--yes he is an awesome run stopper, but I thought he was as a rookie, too).
To me, Brockers is the anchor of the defense. Yes, Quinn is all-world, but Brockers is the brute
force!

2. Aaron Donal getting lots of play; I only care about him versus: Saffold, Robinson Davin Joeseph. And, apparently he is pretty good against them....Hard to get a 'real read' on this.
Good chance that Donald becomes a successful pass rusher this year. He super quick and strong.

3. The D line will dominate.

4. Ogletree is bigger and more dominating, especially as a pass rusher. He is sticking with people in coverage Quesion: with Jared Cook too? Ogletree has a better attitude and more physicality & focus--and he is bigger/stronger.

5.Ray Ray, Dunbar or Ogletree and OLB's are blitzing nearly every passing play

6. CB: Tru looks good. Jenkins mostly looks good, but has had some lapses (or is it good WR play)
6b. CB: Slot man Lemarcus Joyner may be good, or he may fall down on the job. He is smart, has some quickness but he may not have any "long game" ability in his slot play--because he is a tad slow.
6c. CB: McGee may be a really bad starter or an semi-adequate 4th corner.
6d. CB: EJ gaines may be a good starter in 2015, and if pressed in to action this year, he may succeed. He is smart, and has enough ability to play ok this year.
6e CB: Roberston is silky on the outside in coverage, and in tackling (the latter being bad).
6f. Greg reid lost his game somewhere....I was wrong, I thought he would be a great slot guy and return man!

7. TJ McD is mostly doing his job...fits the D well

8. The D is dominating a constantly-rotated O line.

9. McCleod. Hey, Hey get off McCloud (Rams camp starts on Jagger's birthday almost every 4 years!)
9b. Haven't heard anything about our dedicated safety, McCleod, who can run pretty well and has the private blessing of GW. Ok, I made up the 'private' thing, but I believe it is true. GW will use his to 'cover' miss assigments.

10. Quinn is the best in the game, so no report can describe him-- since he isn't going against anyone nearly adequate at LT, why bother. When Jake Comes back we will see

11. Hekker is still an all pro, and best rams punter in history.

Well that is all I have from all the great camp reports...any thoughts from you guys who have seen it?

thanks

 

[LACHAMP46]

ok....

 

[Alan]

What about Veltung?

 

[CoachO]

A couple of observations from my perspective on your comments:

1C: I don't recall many claiming Bailey was the best WR coming out of last year's camp, and I'm not ready to anoint him with that distinction just yet this year. He will be in the mix when he gets back, but if Britt and Quick continue to play at the level they have so far, Bailey can't approach either of them in athleticism, or potential.

5. Pead is still the best among the RBs, but I notice improvement out of B. Cunningham. He just needs to be more consistent. Stacy still has the tendency to want to lunge into his target, and ends up off balance and even whiffs completely on occasion. When he is patient, and just controls the blitzing LB, he does a much better job of staying balanced, and with his base, and low center of gravity, he can be effective. Just not consistent enough for me to feel comfortable with either one of them at this point.

Not ready to say our O-line will be dominant in BOTH facets of the game. I expect them to be very good in the running game, and better than average (and much better than last year) in the pass protection scheme. The biggest area of weakness last year (and previous years) was allowing so much inside penetration. With the likes of Saffold and Robinson manning the Guard spots, while they may miss an assignment from time to time, I don't see them being physically over matched as has been the case with our recent Guard play.

Defense:
1. Not sure what you are referring to about "hearing it last year" and not seeing huge improvement. If you are expecting off the chart sack totals, IMO, he is never going to be that guy. He is the guy who pushes the pocket, and keeps the QB from stepping up, which in turn gives Quinn and Long their opportunities.

6B. Have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here. What does "may not have any "long game" ability in the slot mean?

6C. Way too early to be making any kind of projections of Gaines being a starter in 2015. Unless something unforeseen happens with Jenkins or Johnson, I don't see that happening. His biggest contribution will be being a quality depth guy, and eventually could be very good as the Nickel. Especially if they have any designs on moving Joyner into a more traditional Safety role.

 

[JackDRams]

Joyner is slow? I disagree. The guy flies around the field. At least in his college football film I've seen. Also, I haven't heard anything good from Jenkins. And I read pretty much every report on here. And I wouldn't judge Reid so quickly. The guys been away from football for what, two years? Learning a new defense after not playing in one in years, he's gonna have rust to knock off. Let's judge him after they get some games in with pads.

 

[Alan]

CoachO sounding familiar:
A couple of observations

You gotta start worrying when you begin to sound like me!

 

[RamFan503]

It's interesting with Brockers. He was considered very raw when we picked him. Even though he is in his third year, he is still younger than a few of our ROOKIES and many others throughout the NFL. He's a beast and I don't know that he will ever be a sack monster. Although it doesn't help that when he comes up with a textbook DT sack, the refs flag him. We ALL know (including that POS ref) he should have one more sack on his stat sheet. Anyway, he is that big body with exceptional talent that allows you to take a Donald. I really can't wait to see those two in the middle while Long and Quinn attack and OH YEAH - Tree fires out of the blocks to blast the QBs too.

I know many of us want to be tempered in our expectations but there is a VERY realistic chance we set a new sack record and if our offense can click like I personally think it can, top 10-15 as you say, that is a real recipe for a Superbowl.

Proudly wearing my homer button as I type this. Rams - ALL THE WAY!

 

[SteveBrown]

A couple of observations from my perspective on your comments:
Not ready to say our O-line will be dominant in BOTH facets of the game. I expect them to be very good in the running game, and better than average (and much better than last year) in the pass protection scheme. The biggest area of weakness last year (and previous years) was allowing so much inside penetration. With the likes of Saffold and Robinson manning the Guard spots, while they may miss an assignment from time to time, I don't see them being physically over matched as has been the case with our recent Guard play.

In my opinion, that if they will be B+/A- run blocking, then add in B/B+ Pass blocking, then to me, that is a dominant line overall. Similar to Jets 2009-2010. I don't think the great O lines are much better than that in run and pass grades. (KC's 2002-2006, Dallas 92-96, Washington 82-91). KC's line maybe was better pass blocking.
I see pass blocking grades like this:
Jake Long: B
Greg Robinson: B (after a rough first 3 games); A- by end of season
Wells/Barnes: B
Saffold: A- (we take a huge hit if Davin Joseph comes in)
Barksdale: B+/A-

To me only Robinson's inexperience with blitz pick up and adjusting to bull rushes will keep him
from being successful early on....

I think the tackles were consistently solid in 2013 (except for Dallas game). And, who is going to 'outquick' and 'outpower' Saffold and Grob? McCoy & maybe Mebane (we don't play Suh).

Anyway, that is how I see it. Are these accurate grades for our pass blockers, Coach O?

 

[ram007]

Any areas of improvement for this team? If not, I am going to bump my season prediction from 10-6 to 14-2

 

[SteveBrown]

A couple of observations from my perspective on your comments:

6B. Have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here. What does "may not have any "long game" ability in the slot mean?

6C. Way too early to be making any kind of projections of Gaines being a starter in 2015. Unless something unforeseen happens with Jenkins or Johnson, I don't see that happening. His biggest contribution will be being a quality depth guy, and eventually could be very good as the Nickel. Especially if they have any designs on moving Joyner into a more traditional Safety role.

Coach O, I am always willing to be wrong, but I "projected" a bit with Joyner--based on some reports.

Response to 6B. "long game" to me means running 20-30 yards in to the route (either crossing the field or down the field). It is hard to make up with 4.55 speed and add to that being 5'8" that doesn't give him much of a chance to match up with receivers well when he trails them. I think 'long speed' is something that Flipper Anderson had, and part of that is because of leg length. Some people play 'slower' the longer they get down the field. He is quick,and that is important in the slot.

I know Joyner is smart, heady, tough and that all translates, but the combo of speed and height deficiency may catch up to him--especially against DeSean Jax in the slot.

Response to 6C I agree; but he reminds me of Corey Webster of the Giants; smart, enough skills to succeed, and smart enough to cover his weaknesses. Ross had a great pass rush to cover him, as the Rams do. Ross was sub-pro bowl in quality and really did well in the playoffs and against some good WRs. NFL= injuries. He may play more in 2015 than we could guess.

 

[SteveBrown]

Any areas of improvement for this team? If not, I am going to bump my season prediction from 10-6 to 14-2

Ram 007, Was I tooooo positive? I am a semi-homer. Here are the negatives, just for you :

Negatives:
1. The wide receivers are professional, but not so experienced in excellent route running. I include Britt in this..
Though Baily will become an excellent route runner in the near future. imo.
*2. O line has a 'weak' RT. Barks is a "wall off" blocker to me. At 325 lbs that makes me sad. He plays like
295 a lot...like Lomas Brown. I do think Barks is a probowl level pass blocker (if he keeps improving).
I don't think Fisher likes this---that is why he was after Zack Martin??; and Barks on the road seems a lot
worse against AZ, SF & Seattle. THIS is hugely negative for me.

3. Rams O line has a lengthy injury history for 3 starters. And Saffold is hurt (minor, I know) again.
4. Janoris is not consistent. And, if he doesn't improve a lot, he will not start in 2016. Janoris doesn't have
long speed (uh oh, not all 4.4s are the same). He can't run 50 yards with Vincent Jax or D Jax.....
Janoris had 4 bad games that cost us: SF, Seattle x 2 and Carolina. We can't afford to be dominated
so easily by someone's lacking. I wonder what GW will do to 'cover him up'. I still think we lose all 4 of those
games last year---but this year we can win 3 of those 4! If Janoris plays well.

5. Our MLB is not 'tough' in the run game--yielding too much. Though, overall, he is a good player
6. Our back up corners are not professional level.
7. Our FS may not be a playmaker. He hasn't been, but I have hope.
8. Our QB has to prove he is a 10-12 win guy--which has nothing to do with his talent. I think he will do it.
9. TJ McD might be good, or he might lack the necessary athleticism to be a force in the pass game.
10. Dunbar doesn't cover.
11. Ray ray helps the other teams too much.

*I think RG, RT, Strong Safety and Linebacker are the "tough" personality of the team (many times).
Billy Jenkins was small, but tough as nails. And, that small Ram D never, ever backed down.
Fred Miller and Ryan Tucker were very important to the Rams--without them we had no O line toughness.
Sorry, I can't say O Pace was tough. Sorry, I must be looking at Bob Brown (Raider) as my measurin' cup.
On the opposite:
John Madden said in 1999-2000: "the rams don't really run the ball, other than screens and draws"....I am
paraphrasing here. I think that Adam Timmerman was not going to push many DTs back. By 2004
it was tough for me to watch teams beat up the Rams O line.

Am I negative enough? Cause I don't think I can come up with anything more.
The only negatives that I really worry about are: #3, #4 and #6.
To only have 3 worries is incredible. I think the last Ram team with that few was: 2001.

I still say 10-6 despite the near impossible schedule. 3-3 in division. HOw, I don't know!

All my opinion. I watch about 4-6 full NFL games every week, 52 weeks a year. My wife says I am wrong
frequently, but never about the Rams

 

[SteveBrown]

What about Veltung?

I do like Veltung as a punt returner. As a WR, I wonder if he could be effective in the slot as a crossing pattern guy, just like Givens did for some 15-20 yard gainers. I would rather 'develop' Veltung than wait for Givens. I think Givens is addition by subtraction. The Rams are incredible tough everywhere, except for Givens, Barks and JL #55. I think 'weak' guys hurt the team. Barks and JL are very good at what they do,so it is ok. Givens is not a professional WR. Plays skinny....Veltung was tough as a punt returner...!

 

[ram007]

Thanks SteveBrown. I have similar impressions on WRs and DBs on this roster.

The DBs might decide if Rams are 10-6 or 7-9 this season. I am sticking with 10-6 as Rams enter the season.

 

[Alan]

SteveBrown coming into the game in the 4th quarter:
I do like Veltung as a punt returner.

You're a new member Steve and I accidentally drew you into one of my long running little jokes. I like Veltung's pluck and the fact that he's an under dog but beyond that the rest is just pretense and part of the joke. You had to have been a member here from the beginning of his time as a Ram to understand. That and the fact the I have an unusual sense of humor.

On different note, I agree, to a greater or lesser extent, with many of your 11 negatives. Having said that, I don't think you were being tooooo positive. It's all fine and good to be realistic and it certainly has its place but...this is the time of year where everyone should be drinking some kool-aid or you're really not much of a fan.

 

[Alan]

ram007 trying to slip under the radar:
Saying stuff.

So there was a fairly long period just recently during which I wasn't posting and I missed greeting and welcoming some of our new members. I'm slowly trying to rectify that and your name doesn't sound familiar. I find it hard to believe that I wouldn't have tried to make some jokes about your name ram007.

Many of our posters decided not to give their screen name as much thought as I'd like prior to choosing it and so it's sometimes hard for me to distinguish between ramfan174 and ramfan944 in my mind. It's not just the ideas that posters bring here that I like to talk about, it's the people themselves that I like to get to know. I'm not bitching about your choice of name, I'm just explaining why I try to personalize it if necessary to get my mind working properly. That's a very long winded way of saying I don't recognize you and so:
Welcome to the ROD community Mr. Bond! :lifting::seizure: :rockon: :cheers:

 

[Oldgeek]

I think Bailey may be the best route runner on the team at this time. Physically he reminds me more of Holt and Bruce. Quick and Britt are big athletic receivers that everyone seems to love. This is the first time since the Holt/Bruce days that I feel the Rams have a solid WR group.

 

[SteveBrown]

You're a new member Steve and I accidentally drew you into one of my long running little jokes. I like Veltung's pluck and the fact that he's an under dog but beyond that the rest is just pretense and part of the joke. You had to have been a member here from the beginning of his time as a Ram to understand. That and the fact the I have an unusual sense of humor.

On different note, I agree, to a greater or lesser extent, with many of your 11 negatives. Having said that, I don't think you were being tooooo positive. It's all fine and good to be realistic and it certainly has its place but...this is the time of year where everyone should be drinking some kool-aid or you're really not much of a fan.

Yes! Kool aid is for the summer!

 

[SteveBrown]

I think Bailey may be the best route runner on the team at this time. Physically he reminds me more of Holt and Bruce. Quick and Britt are big athletic receivers that everyone seems to love. This is the first time since the Holt/Bruce days that I feel the Rams have a solid WR group.

Ya, I think they will be solid. I think if Quick is having a bad game against a certain corner, then Baily or Austin might be able to come in and do "something interesting". I believe Tavon will make some huge plays---I mean, come on, he won the Colts game. I just don't seen tavon being a threat in every game, against every team...and I think Fisher and Schotty are ok with that...he is a weapon, as a runner as punt returner....and he will sneak up on some teams in some games.

 

[CoachO]

Coach O, I am always willing to be wrong, but I "projected" a bit with Joyner--based on some reports.

Response to 6B. "long game" to me means running 20-30 yards in to the route (either crossing the field or down the field). It is hard to make up with 4.55 speed and add to that being 5'8" that doesn't give him much of a chance to match up with receivers well when he trails them. I think 'long speed' is something that Flipper Anderson had, and part of that is because of leg length. Some people play 'slower' the longer they get down the field. He is quick,and that is important in the slot.

I know Joyner is smart, heady, tough and that all translates, but the combo of speed and height deficiency may catch up to him--especially against DeSean Jax in the slot.

Response to 6C I agree; but he reminds me of Corey Webster of the Giants; smart, enough skills to succeed, and smart enough to cover his weaknesses. Ross had a great pass rush to cover him, as the Rams do. Ross was sub-pro bowl in quality and really did well in the playoffs and against some good WRs. NFL= injuries. He may play more in 2015 than we could guess.

I think you are over stating Joyner's perceived inability to cover someone on a crossing route. Also, you are making a huge assumption that he will be forced to run with someone for 30 yards. Given this pass rush, and Williams' propensity to "bring the heat" teams aren't going to have the time to run these slow developing routes, exposing Joyner (or any of our other DBs).

As far as Jenkins, and his inconsistent play from 2013, again, you seem to be completely bypassing the impact that Tim Walton's scheme had on him, and the entire defense. They were much more passive than what they will be this year. And played way more basic zone, something that doesn't take advantage of Jenkins skillset. He gets in the most trouble when he bites on the double moves, and gets caught peeking in the backfield, which is exactly what they are expected to do in zone coverage.

When he is matched in man coverage, he is much better. I know everyone only seems to remember the two plays vs, Golden Taint and Seattle. In the game here, he had very good coverage, only to misjudge the ball in the air, and lose his balance trying to recover. In the game in Seattle, they were in zone coverage, and he expected help over the top that never came. He ends up looking bad on the play, but it wasn't his fault.

I fully expect Jenkins to have a really good year, and playing in Williams' scheme, which will be designed to create turnovers, Jenkins will have more than his fair share.

 

[Alan]

CoachO with part of the story:
I know everyone only seems to remember the two plays vs, Golden Taint and Seattle.

As Paul Harvey would say: And now, for the rest of the story.

I agree with much of what you said CoachO but while Steve might have leaned too far in one direction, you might be leaning too far in the other direction. You don't earn the dubious distinction of having an opposing QB rating of 115.3 against you (total average rating for the whole year) in just two bad games.