Spags wants his old job back as Giants DC and gets it

[Rmfnlt]

Actually, a TEAM'S record by definition cannot be to fault or credit of any ONE individual.

Lack of inheritance and massive injuries in 2011 had a lot more to do with that record than any shortcoming on Spags' part.

Yeah, it's the age old "well, you are what your record says you are" thing.

And I get that, if it can be reasonably established that there were few obstacles in the way of success.

We've seen obvious examples over the years of just plain inept coaching, despite few injuries and plenty of talent.

Not sure that was the case then.

 

[Boffo97]

Yeah, it's the age old "well, you are what your record says you are" thing.

And I get that, if it can be reasonably established that there were few obstacles in the way of success.

We've seen obvious examples over the years of just plain inept coaching, despite few injuries and plenty of talent.

Not sure that was the case then.

It may be age old, but it's complete bovine feces. There are so many reasons a team might be better or worse than their record would indicate. Injuries, schedule, cheating just off the top of my head.

 

[Rmfnlt]

To you. I saw beyond that, and others did too. His legacy extends beyond the Rams as well, so I don't try to whittle down a man's legacy to one layover in a 33 year coaching career that was beset by some of the worst luck any coach has ever experienced.

Setting aside the silliness about his idiosyncrasies, I think Spags is much better suited to be a DC anyway. It's not easy having control over an entire team and trying to run every aspect of it when your mindset is geared towards micromanagement. He'll have far more success as a long-time coordinator in the Dick LeBeau mold. Getting to implement his scheme seamlessly over multiple years and having veterans who can help him teach it to rookies and younger free agents. As a disciple of Jim Johnson in Philly, he's learned to become quite excellent at creating a pass rush and neutralizing some of the more potent passing attacks. I truly wish him nothing but success, because I respected what he tried to do here.

Man, that was well said!

 

[MrMotes]

It may be age old, but it's complete bovine feces. There are so many reasons a team might be better or worse than their record would indicate. Injuries, schedule, cheating just off the top of my head.

You can call it bovine feces but it's true.

Spags was fired after going 10-38. He was fired again after his defense gave up over 7k yards in New Orleans. Whether you like it or not, you are your record in the NFL.

He got the Rams gig because of his record as NY's DC.

It's like GW often says, the NFL is a results business...

 

[Boffo97]

You can call it bovine feces but it's true.

It really isn't. Like at all. No matter how many times it's said.

Spags was fired after going 10-38.

And if that were the reason that Spags was fired, without considering any other factors, then Kroenke and Demoff are morons.

 

[MrMotes]

And if that were the reason that Spags was fired, without considering any other factors, then Kroenke and Demoff are morons.

But you claim the 10-38 record isn't a fair way to judge Spagnulo. So why did they fire him then? You think Demoff and Kroenke are morons?

 

[Rmfnlt]

But you claim the 10-38 record isn't a fair way to judge Spagnulo. So why did they fire him then? You think Demoff and Kroenke are morons?

Well, their record is 29-50-1... maybe they should fire themselves (if record is the sole criteria).

 

[-X-]

Well, their record is 29-50-1... maybe they should fire themselves (if record is the sole criteria).

lulz. The Rams should fire the Rams.
I'd pay to see that presser.

 

[Warner4Prez]

But you claim the 10-38 record isn't a fair way to judge Spagnulo. So why did they fire him then? You think Demoff and Kroenke are morons?

I apologize for lazily grabbing one quote from you here Motes, but multi-quote is hard.
What you say is partially true. You can't go 10-38 and preach patience to a fan base that's already squirrelly after the other previously underwhelming coach (Linehan). That's why I was surprised to not hear whispers of a Fisher hot seat near the end of this past season. I still think it takes 10 wins to keep his gig here after 2015. Right or wrong, results need to be shown to the fan base first and foremost.

 

[-X-]

But you claim the 10-38 record isn't a fair way to judge Spagnulo. So why did they fire him then? You think Demoff and Kroenke are morons?

It was because of the record, but also with the acknowledgement and understanding that it likely couldn't have been much better given the circumstances. When asked point blank, Demoff said that if they had reached 8-8 that year (or anywhere close to it), that he wouldn't have been fired. So that leaves a 16-32 record, and he's retained. So the record, in and of itself, was the primary reason. But the firing was likely motivated by declining ticket sales or some other monetary consideration.

IMO.

 

[Rmfnlt]

But the firing was likely motivated by declining ticket sales or some other monetary consideration.

Maybe... but my theory is more along the lines of showing the fan base that losing will not be tolerated. In other words, a sacrificial lamb of sorts.

Both Kroenke and Demoff saw the circumstances surrounding that last year... but they fired him anyway. Appeasement, IMO.

So, they brought in "the name" and, while things have improved from pitiful to mediocre, the losing seasons continue to mount.

If they don't have a winning season next year, not sure what will happen to the coach. If he is fired, mediocre bought him one more year than Spagnuolo.

 

[-X-]

Maybe... but my theory is more along the lines of showing the fan base that losing will not be tolerated. In other words, a sacrificial lamb of sorts.

Both Kroenke and Demoff saw the circumstances surrounding that last year... but they fired him anyway. Appeasement, IMO.

So, they brought in "the name" and, while things have improved from pitiful to mediocre, the losing seasons continue to mount.

If they don't have a winning season next year, not sure what will happen to the coach. If he is fired, mediocre bought him one more year than Spagnuolo.

Could very well be.

 

[Thordaddy]

Spags record isn't ALL there is but it's enough,one notable poster from back in the Spags firing dust up use to challenge anyone to name a coach who succeeded in spite of the degree of injuries experienced during Spags last year , I would say Bruce Ariens did just that this year ,fact is more often than not success in the league is defined by how well you deal with injuries.

 

[MrMotes]

Well, their record is 29-50-1... maybe they should fire themselves (if record is the sole criteria).

If it wasn't the record, why were Spags and Devaney fired?

 

[MrMotes]

I apologize for lazily grabbing one quote from you here Motes, but multi-quote is hard.
What you say is partially true. You can't go 10-38 and preach patience to a fan base that's already squirrelly after the other previously underwhelming coach (Linehan). That's why I was surprised to not hear whispers of a Fisher hot seat near the end of this past season. I still think it takes 10 wins to keep his gig here after 2015. Right or wrong, results need to be shown to the fan base first and foremost.

This is what i'm saying too. It's a results business. If it weren't for the stadium issues, i think it's very possible there would be more rumbling about Fisher and Snead after 3 straight losing seasons...

 

[MrMotes]

It was because of the record, but also with the acknowledgement and understanding that it likely couldn't have been much better given the circumstances. When asked point blank, Demoff said that if they had reached 8-8 that year (or anywhere close to it), that he wouldn't have been fired. So that leaves a 16-32 record, and he's retained. So the record, in and of itself, was the primary reason. But the firing was likely motivated by declining ticket sales or some other monetary consideration.

IMO.

Which is pretty much what i'm saying: you are your record.

I seriously doubt anyone has ever gone 10-38 and not gotten fired. Not even Tom Landry and Chuck Noll were quite as bad in the first three years of their expansion teams. And in the modern era? Forget it...

 

[Mojo Ram]

Which is pretty much what i'm saying: you are your record.

Which team(in your mind) had the better, more successful season this year?
Arizona or Carolina?

 

[MrMotes]

Which team(in your mind) had the better, more successful season this year?
Arizona or Carolina?

AZ had an amazing year considering they lost their top 2 QB's. Arians took over a 5 win team with no QB in the best division in the NFL and immediately had a 10 and then 11 win season. The dude is his record. He's a good coach.

But as to your question: AZ had a better regular season and Carolina had a better playoffs, going by "you are your record."

 

[Mojo Ram]

But as to your question: AZ had a better regular season and Carolina had a better playoffs, going by "you are your record."

No, the question was which team had a better season?

If one were to look back on the records 10 years from now it would appear to be a no brainer. AZ went 11-5, Carolina went 7-8-1. Arizona would appear be the answer, but in reality Carolina had the better season and ultimately, more success in 2014. This point is reinforced by AZ losing to Carolina in the playoffs...and by Carolina winnning a division title when the Cards did not.

You are what your record says you are...most of the time.

 

[MrMotes]

No, the question was which team had a better season?

If one were to look back on the records 10 years from now it would appear to be a no brainer. AZ went 11-5, Carolina went 7-8-1. Arizona would appear be the answer, but in reality Carolina had the better season and ultimately, more success in 2014. This point is reinforced by AZ losing to Carolina in the playoffs...and by Carolina winnning a division title when the Cards did not.

You are what your record says you are...most of the time.

I'm pretty sure Parcells was referring to coaches and i was talking about Spags. But it applies pretty well to a team too. I mean, if you sneak into the playoffs as a WC and win the SB, your record is you won the SB, right? You are a champion. So maybe you found a technical exception here when the SB winner has a worse record than another team but still, i think the spirit of the phrase is rock solid...