Spags wants his old job back as Giants DC and gets it

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It says you are what your record says you are. And for Dick Vermeil that includes his time at UCLA, the Eagles, Rams and Chiefs. Dick Vermeil is what his record says he is.

Except that's not what Parcells meant when he said it. He was talking about the here and now.
This is directly from his book "Parcells: A Football Life" that he authored with Nunyo Demasio.

He's talking about the perception of a team *despite* anything that happened to create the undesired result. That's why he made comments about injuries and excuses. Nobody cares about that because you are what your record says you are in the eyes of those not privy to the struggles of winning under those circumstances. Or he just likes to disrespect other coaches (colleagues) in the inner-circle. I highly doubt that's his intention though.

 

[kurtfaulk]

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What gets me about spags is how aggressive he was as a dc and how meek he was as a hc. Punting the ball away, two scores down against the Giants with a few minutes left on the board? The 5% chance of winning turned to 0%. 2nd game of the season. What kind of message did that send to the team?

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What gets me about spags is how aggressive he was as a dc and how meek he was as a hc. Punting the ball away, two scores down against the Giants with a few minutes left on the board? The 5% chance of winning turned to 0%. 2nd game of the season. What kind of message did that send to the team?

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Yeah, that I can sorta agree with. It always kinda irked me that he didn't really have a killer instinct or liked to take many chances for fear of making it worse. At least that was my perception. A "rather lose by 14 than lose by 21" kind of mentality. Being more aggressive might have looked better in some of those circumstances, but I guess I can see the point of playing the odds the other way. Like, punting it away and trying to force a turnover deep in their territory so you can try and score on a short field.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Yeah, that I can sorta agree with. It always kinda irked me that he didn't really have a killer instinct or liked to take many chances for fear of making it worse. At least that was my perception. A "rather lose by 14 than lose by 21" kind of mentality. Being more aggressive might have looked better in some of those circumstances, but I guess I can see the point of playing the odds the other way. Like, punting it away and trying to force a turnover deep in their territory so you can try and score on a short field.

I guess but it was such a surreal thing to see at that time. I was like wtf. Of all the bad things that happened in that game I think that was the worst.

I could also say not challenging the no td call when dax got tackled inches from the endzone. I thought it was a td. Close enough to throw the red flag. In the end they had to settle for a fg. So deflating for me personally.

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[Boffo97]

Now for the sake of fairness, here are the two things I didn't like from the Spagsvaney Facgime:

1. You can't expect any GM or coach/GM combo where the coach has personnel input to always hit after Round 4, but you have to find at least some keepers. Darell Scott, Brooks Foster, Keith Null, Chris Ogbonnaya, Mardy Gilyard, Michael Hoomanawxyz, Hall Davis, Fendi Onobun, Eugene Sims, Marquis Johnson, George Selvie, Josh Hull, Greg Salas, Jermale Hines, Mikail Baker, Jabara Williams and Jonathan Nelson. The only one of those still on the Rams is Sims. Some of the others are contributing elsewhere, but that doesn't make them good picks for us.

At the very least, you have to give Sneasher credit for Chris Givens, Greg Zuerlein, Zac Stacy and E.J. Gaines so far. A name or two might be added later.

2. Going in 2011, Spags knew it was essentially his contract year, so he sacrificed youth and upside from a team that seemed ready to turn the corner for flyers on one year "win now" vets and NONE of them panned out. Hopefully if Fisher feels compelled to do the same thing since this is essentially HIS contract year, he'll have better luck/judgement.

 

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I guess but it was such a surreal thing to see at that time. I was like wtf. Of all the bad things that happened in that game I think that was the worst.

I could also say not challenging the no td call when dax got tackled inches from the endzone. I thought it was a td. Close enough to throw the red flag. In the end they had to settle for a fg. So deflating for me personally.

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[kurtfaulk]

Those nightmares are over. Replaced by different nightmares. I had this recurring dream about back up qbs leading the rams for 23 straight games. Brutal.

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[Boffo97]

Those nightmares are over. Replaced by different nightmares. I had this recurring dream about back up qbs leading the rams for 23 straight games. Brutal.

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I would have thought the equivalent nightmare would have been the time Fisher ended a loss to the 49ers by kneeling down. I personally understood why he did it (a player had just gotten perhaps seriously hurt and the game was over anyway), but it is something I could see people really latching onto if the fandom turns on Fisher.

 

[jrry32]

Those nightmares are over. Replaced by different nightmares. I had this recurring dream about back up qbs leading the rams for 23 straight games. Brutal.

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At least the nightmare of an OL comprised of used car salesmen seems to finally be over.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I would have thought the equivalent nightmare would have been the time Fisher ended a loss to the 49ers by kneeling down. I personally understood why he did it (a player had just gotten perhaps seriously hurt and the game was over anyway), but it is something I could see people really latching onto if the fandom turns on Fisher.

was that the mnf game? i was in hawaii at the time and would have thrown the tv out from the 49th floor balcony if i watched it any further (early 4th qtr). i had to rush to the pool to wash the filth that had attached itself to me from watching that game. so i may have missed that moment.

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[kurtfaulk]

At least the nightmare of an OL comprised of used car salesmen seems to finally be over.

i think the current oline was giving sam and the back up qbs nightmares.

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[jrry32]

i think the current oline was giving sam and the back up qbs nightmares.

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Still...at least 3 of them will be in the NFL next year...that's a start.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Still...at least 3 of them will be in the NFL next year...that's a start.

Amen to that. Hopefully the Wells and Joseph turnstile show will be replaced by a pair that can at least be average at a minimum.

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[Rmfnlt]

That's not uncommon in the League for someone's rep to be at least temporarily ruined by taking a bad job. After Belichick left Cleveland in 1994, it was 6 years until he was a head coach again and started cheating. You could argue that Spags was a dead man walking when he took the job because NO ONE was going to turn the team around from nothing to contender in 3 years. That said, he would be apparently the only "bad" coach in NFL history to manage a +6 game improvement in one season.

But your argument doesn't prove the obviously false claim that the NFL *only* cares about W-L record and never looks at anything else. Think about it. If you were getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions to make professional decisions, you'd have to be not too attached to that job to make all your decisions based on a single number.

Going through a periood of years like Spagnuolo did, first with the Rams and then in New Orleans, of course no one would consider him for HC right now.

Will it turn out that those bad years are his HC death sentence? Only time will tell.

But the NFL is a funny place at times... and memories become very fuzzy when a particular coach is doing well.

I think I read somewhere that Linehan was being considered for a HC gig before the Cowboys locked him up. And, it appeared to be job #1 to lock him up for the Cowboys.

As a head coach, we was far worse than Spagnuolo IMO. Lots of conjecture and rumors about Spagnuolo and his habits and who was let go and why... but they players played hard for him up until the end, based on what I saw.

Linehan not only was terrible at player evaluations, but he lost that team badly (I still remember the Bulger eye-roll). He was a abject failure as head coach.... no redeeming qualities while in STL.

Both Linehan and Spagnuolo are now locked into contracts as Coordinators. Who knows? Maybe one (or both) end up head coaches in the future... stranger things have happened.

But wondering why Spagnuolo didn't get any HC offer lately? Well, doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out... the only reason I figure anyone would even bring it up is to take a cheap shot at the guy.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Of course he did. He, along with Demoff and Devaney had to completely purge that team of everybody. There were TONS of backloaded contracts on that team and they were upside down in the cap. The only way to make it better was to make it considerably worse, and that's what they all did. And it certainly wasn't anybody's fault in the Organization that the CBA was being negotiated and all UFA's had to become RFA's, thus making the free agent pool extremely shallow. Couple that with the dire cap situation, and it subsequently limited their ability to add *quality* free agents that first year.

Just my opinion, but I always felt Spagnuolo and Devaney inherited a much bigger mess than even Fisher and Snead did. I mea, other than Jackson, there was literally nothing worthwhile on that team they inherited from Linehan.

And, of course, other obstacles presented themselves, as you alude to.

Fisher and Snead inherited a bad team, no doubt. But, at least there were a few pieces in place.

Spagnuolo and Devaney got nothing. IMO.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Interesting thread....hmmmm....not sure where I fall in this...Spags caught a bad break with the injuries to the DB's....I think McDaniel's was here when Spags was coach, no? And I thought that team showed some promise...I liked the hurry up offense...So, I liked McDaniels....I kinda liked Spags....I'm pretty sure the GM may have been decent too ( Long, Quinn, & Bradford where drafted then...I think they also drafted Saffold) so bad luck can make coaches & GMs look worse than they really are...Just like a bomb QB can mask a bunch of mistakes too...
Spags wasn't the main problem, but obviously wasn't the solution either...Will see with the results in 2015 & 2016 at NY....I have a feeling he'll do well.....

Very well put!

 

[Boffo97]

Just my opinion, but I always felt Spagnuolo and Devaney inherited a much bigger mess than even Fisher and Snead did. I mea, other than Jackson, there was literally nothing worthwhile on that team they inherited from Linehan.

And, of course, other obstacles presented themselves, as you alude to.

Fisher and Snead inherited a bad team, no doubt. But, at least there were a few pieces in place.

Spagnuolo and Devaney got nothing. IMO.

That's something I've said repeatedly... that argument is usually dismissed as "Every coach has a few players when he comes in" but there's definitely a difference in terms of quality starters.

Add to that that Spags came in the year that had the crappiest top 10 draft in recent history... and... yeah.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I would have thought the equivalent nightmare would have been the time Fisher ended a loss to the 49ers by kneeling down. I personally understood why he did it (a player had just gotten perhaps seriously hurt and the game was over anyway), but it is something I could see people really latching onto if the fandom turns on Fisher.

Yup... I've seen it so many times.

New coach comes in, fans believe. Nice honeymoon.

But... over a period of time (established by each fan at their sole discretion), that coach had better live up to expectations (established by each fan at their sole discretion).

At some point (kinda like being married), the things we overlooked or didn't pay any attention to during the honeymoon start to annoy us.

Spagnuolo was no different... and we're seeing a litte more of that kind of behavior being aimed at Fisher (too conservative) lately... funny how there wasn't much talk about that (even though his history told us he was a conservative coach) during the honeymoon.

Guess what I'm saying is it's easy to pick apart a head coach when things aren't going so well... or after he's gone.

I don't see this as a Spagnuolo thing... I see this as a heach coach/fan relationship thing.