Shutdown Corner's Overrated and Underrated: NFL coach

[RamFan503]

I too had concerns about Fisher with his win/loss record and failure to make the playoffs regularly. But I also sense that this is a totally different situation he is creating here. Stan doesn't meddle. He hires professionals and lets them do their jobs. This is Fisher's chance to build a team with his stamp on it. A team BTW that he grew up cheering for. Fisher grew up as a Rams fan.

 

[RamFan503]

Art Rooney II said on NFL total Access yesterday that the Late Bud Grant Lost in his 1st 3 seasons with the Steelers, then Won 4 Super Bowls! I really believe Fisher is building a Team that's capable of doing the same thing! I like what Fisher's doing! Oh! and while I'm remembering the past, Pete Carroll's 1st 2 seasons with the sea-chickens, he went 7-9 and 7-9 then, what, 13-3? Give Fisher a break he deserves it! GO RAMS

Bud Grant? The only Superbowls I know of that a Bud Grant team went to- The Viqueens - they lost. Art must have been referring to Chuck Noll.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Art Rooney II said on NFL total Access yesterday that the Late Chuck Noll Lost in his 1st 3 seasons with the Steelers, then Won 4 Super Bowls! I really believe Fisher is building a Team that's capable of doing the same thing! I like what Fisher's doing! Oh! and while I'm remembering the past, Pete Carroll's 1st 2 seasons with the sea-chickens, he went 7-9 and 7-9 then, what, 13-3? Give Fisher a break he deserves it! GO RAMS

OOPS! SORRY! My Bad! I wanted to say Chuck!!

 

[DaveFan'51]

The only Bud Grant I know of is the ex-Vikings coach who is 87 and just had a big garage sale. I think you're referring to Chuck Noll.

Sorry Chuck Noll the coach I wanted to say!! BIG Brain Fart

 

[RamFan503]

Sorry Chuck Noll the coach I wanted to say!! BIG Brain Fart

Meh. We all have them.

 

[jrry32]

It's funny how perceptions of players change depending on the situation,

What do you mean Robert Quinn didn't win the DPOY? It's just because he's a Ram if he played for any other team there would be no doubt

You mean I have to give the former regime credit for drafting him? Meh he's "good" I'm not sure I'd go further than that.



Which is what I was asking for, at the moment I'm fine with Fisher, if we don't progress into a winning team though I'm not sure he'd be the right guy.



You'd really take:

Max Unger
Red Bryant
LeRoy Hill
Brandon Mebane
Jon Ryan
Deon Butler
Ben Obomanu
Marcus Trufant

Over:

Robert Quinn
Sam Bradford
Rodger Saffold
Chris Long
James Laurinaitis
Lance Kendricks
Austin Petis

Any reason? I'd take a DPOY and starting QB over an All Pro centre.

Seattle had a lot of veteran players that Carroll chose not to keep. The Rams had rookies and second year players aside from Laurinaitis and Long. It's not comparable.

Seattle had proven starters like Houshmandzadeh, Deion Branch, Burleson, Carlson, Tatupu, LeRoy Hill, Mebane, Deon Grant, Kerney, Sims and Trufant.(not including young players like Bryant, Unger, Hawthorne, etc.) It was a much more talented team than the 2011 Rams. Carroll chose to rebuild with guys that fit his system...and him/Schneider did a great job of it.

But it's not a contest between who inherited the better team. Fisher's coaching staff developed Quinn, Bradford and Saffold. Bradford and Saffold were coming off terrible sophomore years and injuries. You're not taking a starting QB and a DPOY over anything. Because Quinn and Bradford have become what they are with the coaching they received from Fisher's staff.

And regardless of all that, Carroll went 14-18 in a MUCH WEAKER NFC West. Fisher went 14-17-1. The whole "it's results time" argument just seems bogus to me. It's always "results time" and yet "results" are a lot more complicated that simple wins and losses. What happens if Bradford gets hurt again or other key players are injured? Did Fisher fail if the team only wins 8 games? What happens if we play the toughest schedule in football and only win 8-9 games? What happens if the team wins 10 games and doesn't make the playoffs because of the strength of the NFC?

Frankly, this team going 14-17-1 with the talent and luck it has had over the past two years, imo, is a testament to how good of a job Fisher's staff has done.(aside from Walton)

 

[Prime Time]

Sorry Chuck Noll the coach I wanted to say!! BIG Brain Fart

Didn't post that to embarrass you, just to keep the record straight. Good old Bud is alive and well. Besides, I'm a walking brain fart.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Seattle had a lot of veteran players that Carroll chose not to keep. The Rams had rookies and second year players aside from Laurinaitis and Long. It's not comparable.

Seattle had proven starters like Houshmandzadeh, Deion Branch, Burleson, Carlson, Tatupu, LeRoy Hill, Mebane, Deon Grant, Kerney, Sims and Trufant.(not including young players like Bryant, Unger, Hawthorne, etc.) It was a much more talented team than the 2011 Rams. Carroll chose to rebuild with guys that fit his system...and him/Schneider did a great job of it.

But it's not a contest between who inherited the better team. Fisher's coaching staff developed Quinn, Bradford and Saffold. Bradford and Saffold were coming off terrible sophomore years and injuries. You're not taking a starting QB and a DPOY over anything. Because Quinn and Bradford have become what they are with the coaching they received from Fisher's staff.

And regardless of all that, Carroll went 14-18 in a MUCH WEAKER NFC West. Fisher went 14-17-1. The whole "it's results time" argument just seems bogus to me. It's always "results time" and yet "results" are a lot more complicated that simple wins and losses. What happens if Bradford gets hurt again or other key players are injured? Did Fisher fail if the team only wins 8 games? What happens if we play the toughest schedule in football and only win 8-9 games? What happens if the team wins 10 games and doesn't make the playoffs because of the strength of the NFC?

Frankly, this team going 14-17-1 with the talent and luck it has had over the past two years, imo, is a testament to how good of a job Fisher's staff has done.(aside from Walton)

If we "only" win 9 games then that's perfectly fine, 9 wins is my cut-off for a successful season, I don't care about what either guy did in year 1 or 2, outside of a massive success year 3 were always going to be the judgement year, we could have gone 0-32 the last two years.

If Bradford goes down injured again then I'll put some blame on Fisher, they had all the info on his medical history and came to the conclusion that he was unlucky with injuries rather than injury prone, if they are wrong on that then they should shoulder some responsibility.

If Bradford and Quinn became what they are because of Fisher's staff then that's awesome, they shouldn't have any problem turning what they've drafted into a winning team, if they don't then I'll judge them for that.

All I want is progress, we've shown we can go 7-8-1 and 7-9, they're impressive considering where we started. But at the same time we've spent 4 top 100 picks on WRs including a top 10 pick, and yet the question of Sam's best WR so far has the answer of an UDFA from the previous regime. We've spent 3 day 2 picks on DBs (at the start of last season) and thrown big money at another, and yet had one of the worst pass Ds (for completion % and yards per attempt) ever. If the young players in those two areas progress as we hope I have little doubt that we will have a winning season. But if those types of results continue questions need to be asked.

 

[So Ram]

Fisher really earned his nickname - "Coacho Ocho" by having so many 8-8 seasons. In his 19 years, he's had 9 years that were within 1 game of 8-8, including 2 such seasons with the Rams.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/FishJe0.htm

Worth note, 17 of those years he had cheapskate owner Bud Adams to contend with.

But Fisher is still 156-137 overall as a head coach. That doesn't happen by accident. Spagnuolo and Linehan were overrated in that someone actually thought they were even remotely qualified. The Rams combined record in seasons with them as head coach were 23-73. That wasn't an accident either.

By contrast, Fisher has:

• In his first year took a 2-14 team and turned them into a 7-9-1 team.
• In his second year kept his team competitive at 7-9 despite playing 9+ games with a sub-par backup QB playing in a division with the Super Bowl champions, the NFC runner up, where the Rams division opponents had a combined record of 36-13

Fisher overrated?? Please.

I'll firmly disagree about Scott Linehan.I think he was in over his head,but things were stacked against him.Can't believe that is my first post.Wow ? BTW Fisher is getting paid $7 mil a season. Fisher is who Jeff Fisher is,and I think all those seasons as a head coach has taught him a lot.

 

[ausmurp]

Fisher's career is not impressive, agreed. But if Bradford stays healthy all of last year we are absolutely 9-7 or better, probably no playoff appearance though. Either way, this year will tell, and this team is very very talented. If he doesn't get the job done, I wouldn't be surprised if the next coach does, which unfortunately doesn't credit Fisher. Credit should be noted if that happens.

 

[SWMO Fan]

I don't see him being on the hot seat just yet. We are a young team with developing players and IMO it is just a matter of time before they jell. Baring injuries to key players, I think that perhaps this season we will make a serious run at a playoff berth.

 

[Boffo97]

Fisher's career is not impressive, agreed. But if Bradford stays healthy all of last year we are absolutely 9-7 or better, probably no playoff appearance though. Either way, this year will tell, and this team is very very talented. If he doesn't get the job done, I wouldn't be surprised if the next coach does, which unfortunately doesn't credit Fisher. Credit should be noted if that happens.

Buh?

To be around as long as he has is impressive in and of itself.

 

[jdhommert]

Yep.
A 2-14 team with 2-14 talent...unlike this years Falcons or Texans.

Yep.He got one of the worst rosters in NFL history when he came here. I'm a huge Fisher believer but he still is going to have to get it done. I think Gregg Williams defense is what gets us where we are headed. I'm convinced that GW is the single biggest addition this team has made in the last couple years.

 

[Thordaddy]

I too had concerns about Fisher with his win/loss record and failure to make the playoffs regularly. But I also sense that this is a totally different situation he is creating here. Stan doesn't meddle. He hires professionals and lets them do their jobs. This is Fisher's chance to build a team with his stamp on it. A team BTW that he grew up cheering for. Fisher grew up as a Rams fan.

I think when you look at all family oriented things the Rams are doing the financial advice they are giving the players , he's creating a culture he probably wanted to do before ,I doubt Bud Adams would spring for the family week he's doing for the rookies .
I think he managed to work for years for a man who stifled him, IMO he did better in Tenn than you'd expect considering the circumstances

 

[jrry32]

All I want is progress, we've shown we can go 7-8-1 and 7-9, they're impressive considering where we started. But at the same time we've spent 4 top 100 picks on WRs including a top 10 pick, and yet the question of Sam's best WR so far has the answer of an UDFA from the previous regime. We've spent 3 day 2 picks on DBs (at the start of last season) and thrown big money at another, and yet had one of the worst pass Ds (for completion % and yards per attempt) ever. If the young players in those two areas progress as we hope I have little doubt that we will have a winning season. But if those types of results continue questions need to be asked.

That would be the problem with draft picks. They take time to develop. Walking into a situation with a lot of draft capital but nothing in the way of proven veteran talent isn't advantageous for a coach in the win now NFL.

If we "only" win 9 games then that's perfectly fine, 9 wins is my cut-off for a successful season, I don't care about what either guy did in year 1 or 2, outside of a massive success year 3 were always going to be the judgement year, we could have gone 0-32 the last two years.

If Bradford goes down injured again then I'll put some blame on Fisher, they had all the info on his medical history and came to the conclusion that he was unlucky with injuries rather than injury prone, if they are wrong on that then they should shoulder some responsibility.

Injuries are injuries. What better option did they pass up that would earn Fisher the blame?

If Bradford and Quinn became what they are because of Fisher's staff then that's awesome, they shouldn't have any problem turning what they've drafted into a winning team, if they don't then I'll judge them for that.

Well, like Bradford and Quinn, that takes time and development.

 

[RamFan503]

I think when you look at all family oriented things the Rams are doing the financial advice they are giving the players , he's creating a culture he probably wanted to do before ,I doubt Bud Adams would spring for the family week he's doing for the rookies .
I think he managed to work for years for a man who stifled him, IMO he did better in Tenn than you'd expect considering the circumstances

I don't doubt that a bit. I think Stan wants a consistent and classy winner for his crown jewel of sports teams. He is building that and Fisher is a great choice to forward that agenda. None of us can say that Fish will break the history he has achieved so far but I think he has a great opportunity to do so here. Remember - he would never take an O-lineman in the first round either because that was not his MO.

Fisher may just be in his perfect scenario. An owner that will pony up and pretty much leave him to run the team, a boatload of draft picks to mold a team from the roots, ability to bring in virtually any coach he wants, and the chance to coach the team he grew up with as a kid. Can you get a better gig as a coach? I think it will translate on the field and we will be witness to a pretty cool renaissance.

It's a good time to be a Ram fan.

 

[Rambition]

it's that sage frank schwab...i'm surprised he had time to write such a piece, considering the time he invests in putting out pieces that attempt to illustrate what a hypocrite adam wainwright was during the NLCS last season. funny thing is, schwabbie and a bunch of other hacks totally distorted what adam said regarding the hot dogging that adrian gonzalez and yasiel puig were doing. so you have to consider the source...

 

[moklerman]

I think one has to look at the circumstances Fisher has coached before condemning him for his "mediocre" record. First of all, he inherited a team in Houston that soon went through a relocation, name change and playing their home games at a temporary site. Second, before realignment the AFC Central was one of the toughest divisions in football each year. Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Jacksonville were all very tough back in the late '90's and early '00's. Realignment pits him against the Colts and Peyton Manning but until McNair started breaking down, the Titans were besting or hanging tough with the Colts. Third, Bud Adams and Vince Young. 'Nuff said. Fourth, he inherits a very bad overall team in St. Louis. Fifth, he's once again in a very tough division where 10 wins doesn't even get you into the playoffs.

This isn't to say that Fisher isn't above criticism or hasn't made mistakes but 7-8-1 with the mess he took over and 7-9 with Kellen freakin' Clemens at QB is pretty good coaching and rebuilding IMO.