Sharks on the Beach

[Thordaddy]

Angry said:

That's your lifestyle, tho and I respect that. At least you're trying to improve. Sharks man...there's a reason they exist.

Yeah they're a constant reminder that killing is good

 

[Ramhusker]

Circle of life.

 

[Angry Ram]

Angry said:

That's your lifestyle, tho and I respect that. At least you're trying to improve. Sharks man...there's a reason they exist.

Yeah they're a constant reminder that killing is good

To maintain and balance an ecosystem? Yup.

 

[LesBaker]

Angry I understand how it upsets the pyramid when apex predators are reduced in number in the ocean. I read a lengthy article about it and it can upset the balance, in fact it has to a degree in some areas.

 

[Thordaddy]

To maintain and balance an ecosystem? Yup.

Yeah and clearly the balance is not too good at that beach cuz it's the shark bite capital of Fla,so IMO ol George needs ta kill s'more sharks

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Yeah and clearly the balance is not too good at that beach cuz it's the shark bite capital of Fla,so IMO ol George needs ta kill s'more sharks

shark meat

 

[Angry Ram]

Yeah and clearly the balance is not too good at that beach cuz it's the shark bite capital of Fla,so IMO ol George needs ta kill s'more sharks

Yeah humans aren't meant to be part of the ocean.

 

[RamFan503]

Yeah humans aren't meant to be part of the ocean.

Huh? Neither are birds or polar bears then - right?

We weren't born with gills but we weren't born with climbing picks and ropes. Should we stay out of the mountains? We weren't born with shotguns. Should we not hunt any birds? I fish from shore a lot. How does that factor in? In fact most of the sharks I have caught have been from land. By virtue of man's ability to solve problems and create, he is meant to be part of the land, sea, and air. IMO - that also comes with the responsibility to properly steward the ecosystems we dwell in but don't agree that we aren't meant to be a part of them.

 

[Prime Time]

shark meat

View attachment 1947

 

[Angry Ram]

Huh? Neither are birds or polar bears then - right?

We weren't born with gills but we weren't born with climbing picks and ropes. Should we stay out of the mountains? We weren't born with shotguns. Should we not hunt any birds? I fish from shore a lot. How does that factor in? In fact most of the sharks I have caught have been from land. By virtue of man's ability to solve problems and create, he is meant to be part of the land, sea, and air. IMO - that also comes with the responsibility to properly steward the ecosystems we dwell in but don't agree that we aren't meant to be a part of them.

I'm saying in response to Thordaddy, you can't blame sharks for biting humans when on their turf. Humans should know the risks when going to beaches where sharks can roam. That's all.

 

[grease]

With all the over-fishing of the oceans I hear about shouldn't sharks get harvested too to prevent starvation? Too many starving sharks won't mix well with wading humans.

 

[Thordaddy]

Yeah humans aren't meant to be part of the ocean.

So I'm assuming you practice what you preach,BTW "meant" covers a lot of ground and attests that HOW things are wherever you establish your arbitrary baseline is where they "should be".
Humans weren't MEANT to build Interstate Highways by your standards or FWIW to burn fossil fuels to power your computer


OTOH

 

[Angry Ram]

So I'm assuming you practice what you preach,BTW "meant" covers a lot of ground and attests that HOW things are wherever you establish your arbitrary baseline is where they "should be".
Humans weren't MEANT to build Interstate Highways by your standards or FWIW to burn fossil fuels to power your computer


OTOH

Now you've done 2 things:

1. Confused utilizing natural resources with the the natural order.

2. Taken the topic on a completely different track based on #1.

Point 1:

When on a beach or in the oceanic water...i.e. a sharks NATURAL habitat, you cannot advocate the killing of sharks like you suggested ol'George should do b/c they "attack" humans. Humans are not meant nor designed to be in the ocean (even if it's on a boat or wading ankle deep), and if they are they are fair game b/c sharks are the keystone species. Humans rely on utilizing the resources of waters, though since the basis for civilization.

The same concept applies that humans aren't meant/designed to live in the Arctic tundra (permanently), the open African savanna, deserts (again, permanently), or any other environment that doesn't have the adequate resources for survival. Speaking of which...

You are right, humans aren't meant to design roads, bridges, McDonalds, whatever. But taking oil, coal, petroleum, etc and using it for energy is just a highly advanced version of taking 2 stones and creating fire by our ancestors. Now sure, humans have been fishing (and hunting for that matter) since the beginning of our kind, which is why hunting/fishing doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when humans go out and take out such species that have important roles in the ecosystem, especially when it's for sport (and most of the time these species are the target). I don't think Selassie purposefully goes out and fishes for sharks, and at least he admits is trying to get better at that.

My point is that there is a natural order for a reason, it's what various species are designed to do, and removing the top of the order disrupts everything. Just because humans don't fit into a particular order (in this case the ocean) doesn't mean that order has to be disrupted to fit human needs.

 

[Thordaddy]

Yeah humans aren't meant to be part of the ocean.

Bullshark, we are "meant" to do whatever we can learn to do,just like sharks,they just haven't learned to GTFOOH when the top of the food chain shows up and indeed challenges them, so they uh get Darwinized.
BTW I said: "Humans weren't MEANT to build Interstate Highways by your standards" not that , humans aren't meant to design roads, bridges, McDonalds, whatever.
We are "meant to" do what we are capable of,like any other species,every other species is supposed to fight for it's survival through what means it is capable of. Like Chevy says
We are not the problem,we are the solution as Ridley says.
I'm not confused at all.

 

[-X-]

Bullshark, we are "meant" to do whatever we can learn to do,just like sharks,they just haven't learned to GTFOOH when the top of the food chain shows up and indeed challenges them, so they uh get Darwinized.
BTW I said: "Humans weren't MEANT to build Interstate Highways by your standards" not that , humans aren't meant to design roads, bridges, McDonalds, whatever.
We are "meant to" do what we are capable of,like any other species,every other species is supposed to fight for it's survival through what means it is capable of. Like Chevy says
We are not the problem,we are the solution as Ridley says.
I'm not confused at all.

I don't agree with that. We're capable of a great many things, but that doesn't mean we were meant to do everything of which we're capable. Just because we can kill anything not armed, doesn't mean we should or were designed to. We can drag the bottom of the ocean with nets to harvest mass quantities of fish, but in the process we destroy coral reefs and render certain species extinct. Which subsequently affects the natural order of things. And for what? Because we can? I submit that industrialization of the world and global domination is a human capability, but it's certainly not what we were meant to do. That's not nature's intent.

 

[grease]

I submit that industrialization of the world and global domination is a human capability, but it's certainly not what we were meant to do. That's not nature's intent.

Nature's intent? The evolution of the human brain enables our species enhanced capabilities. That is nature's intent.

 

[-X-]

Nature's intent? The evolution of the human brain enables our species enhanced capabilities. That is nature's intent.

Okay.

 

[RamFan503]

I don't agree with that. We're capable of a great many things, but that doesn't mean we were meant to do everything of which we're capable. Just because we can kill anything not armed, doesn't mean we should or were designed to. We can drag the bottom of the ocean with nets to harvest mass quantities of fish, but in the process we destroy coral reefs and render certain species extinct. Which subsequently affects the natural order of things. And for what? Because we can? I submit that industrialization of the world and global domination is a human capability, but it's certainly not what we were meant to do. That's not nature's intent.

No doubt about it.

Ah - balance. In the same vein that we are meant to do what we are capable of, part of that is being good stewards. We have the intelligence to strike a balance. We are meant to strike that balance. Talk about balance - I'm gonna walk that beam. Everyone here is right IMO. We are not designed to take out cornerstone species with impunity just because we can, we are designed to be doing what it takes to survive and flourish as a species, we are designed to know better than to be raping the environment or each other just because we can. Call it natures design, a creator's design, whatever.

In with that, there are levels. The extreme idea that every shark is sacred doesn't fit in my brain. The thought that we should be gill netting in such a manner that whatever is netted is netted and killed also doesn't fit in my brain. We polluted and raped and ravaged this planet for many years without consideration. I suppose it is just due that some want us to reverse that course. But it ain't going to happen unless the ENTIRE world gets on the same page and... well... that ain't gonna happen.

It doesn't mean that we as a country can't once again step up and show the way. I just don't think it should be at the cost of our economy while developing countries go unchecked.

As to the shark thing - Most people I know don't just kill sharks to kill them. We have anti-wasting laws in this country. I'm not sure why we don't when it comes to the ocean. If you shoot any kind of an animal and it is not part of a damage hunt or culling, you have to take the animal for consumption. They could easily do that with the oceans as well. While I am not keen on sharks taking my fish off the line as has happened to me several times while albacore and salmon fishing, I have always figured that the sharks were just doing what they do. Much like seals and sea lions. But if one of them happened to get hooked, he was generally meat on the table if I could get him in. And I honestly don't plan on changing that.

I have dived with sharks (notice the avatar - a picture I took on one such dive) and admired the animals. It's not like I was thinking I wanted to kill them while watching them any more than the many times I have done sneaks into elk herds just to watch them mill around. Animals are cool. But they are also tasty. And when I am hunting and fishing, I intend to come away with tasty creatures to eat. I get the apex predator thing and that you place a high value on every shark. I'm not there. There's a line. But that doesn't mean I don't want them to find a way to stop the disgusting practice of finning. Sick bastards killing and wasting millions of sharks so that some wealthy fuck can have his fin soup while most of his people barely have rice and a little protein to eat? Nah - fuck that. If you are dragging the ocean and killing a bunch of sharks and other non-target animals, that should be stopped as well.

I just think making an issue of every shark killed by any human is a bit extreme.

 

[RamFan503]

Nature's intent? The evolution of the human brain enables our species enhanced capabilities. That is nature's intent.

Okay.

Don't tell me that I'm the only one who found this little exchange fucking hilarious.

 

[-X-]

My enhanced capabilities also afford me the ability to condense. :snicker: