Rice reinstated

[LesBaker]

Jemelle Hill just did an interview with Janay Rice and it's going to be turned into a transcript and published in the upcoming ESPN The Magazine. She will have final say in what goes in of course and ESPN is not allowed to use any of the audio.

There are some things that weren't well known, and some that weren't known at all. Nothing was covered up, he told the truth to the Ravens and to the NFL. What happened according to her is they were both drunk, he was on his phone and she grabbed it, he spit on her, she slapped him and that's when he threw the punch. This little glimpse afforded by Hill is worth checking out. It's right on the front page in the video gallery.

This is WAY overblown and at this point it's between the two of them. They've known each other since high school so I'm sure they can figure out how to put it behind them and move on. In fact I'm guessing that this interview was the final act and she is telling the media and the public "everyone leave us alone, we are over it and it's time you are too".

 

[Prime Time]

If you want to throw Little to the wolves

Not throwing anyone to the wolves. Just pointing out that if one player got a break then maybe another one should as well. Rice's punishment is not up to you or me but to Goodell and the legal system. We are entitled to agree or disagree as long as we don't start applying wrong motives to one another.

And he was acquitted of it. The arresting officer's partner and officer at the station both testified the the officer acted inappropriately.

So was OJ Simpson. As we all know by now, the law doesn't always mete out justice fairly for everyone.

"On April 24, 2004, he was arrested again for driving while intoxicated after being stopped by The Ladue Police Department for driving 78 in a 55 mile-per-hour zone on Interstate 64. At the time he had red eyes, smelled of alcohol and failed three roadside sobriety tests. He later admitted drinking alcohol to the police."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Little#Off-field_issues

But Rice's slap on the wrist was hardly appropriate to the situation

Agreed. Goodell seemed to turn it up a notch once the public outcry began.

 

[fancents86]

Boffo, are you not assuming that he has hit her more than once? I'm just going by the evidence of the tape and the words out of Janay's mouth. That is not assuming. You are correct statistics prove that men who attack a woman once are more prone to do it again or have done it in the past. But statistics also show things like if you are black you are more prone to live in poverty and end up in jail. Or if you're Asian your more inclined to be successful in academics. I don't think anyone here assumes these things when meeting people of these ethnic backgrounds even though the statistics tell otherwise.

From what I've heard about abusers as well from others, and from family members who were in abusive relationships, the abuser more than likely does not comprehend that what they are doing is wrong, until like you said they seek help. Rice knew what he did was wrong and admitted his guilt the second he got out of the elevator and has owned up to his actions every step of the way.

 

[Boffo97]

Not throwing anyone to the wolves. Just pointing out that if one player got a break then maybe another one should as well. Rice's punishment is not up to you or me but to Goodell and the legal system. We are entitled to agree or disagree as long as we don't start applying wrong motives to one another.

If I did apply a wrong motive to you, I apologize. Not my intention.

That said, I do still maintain that accidental actions and purposeful actions should be treated differently. Little's drinking was purposeful. The accident was bad luck after that.

So was OJ Simpson. As we all know by now, the law doesn't always mete out justice fairly for everyone.

"On April 24, 2004, he was arrested again for driving while intoxicated after being stopped by The Ladue Police Department for driving 78 in a 55 mile-per-hour zone on Interstate 64. At the time he had red eyes, smelled of alcohol and failed three roadside sobriety tests. He later admitted drinking alcohol to the police."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Little#Off-field_issues

I don't think this was a case like OJ's at all. OJ was acquitted because the police screwed up badly. Little was acquitted because the officer's own peers were testifying that he was acting inappropriately.

Little was pretty foolish (or worse words) to have been drinking at ALL after what had happened previously, but by all accounts, he was under the legal limit.

 

[Boffo97]

Boffo, are you not assuming that he has hit her more than once? I'm just going by the evidence of the tape and the words out of Janay's mouth. That is not assuming. You are correct statistics prove that men who attack a woman once are more prone to do it again or have done it in the past.

It is a far, far safer assumption that this has happened more than once than a guy deciding out of the blue to clock his girlfriend with no history of that. It's like seeing one cockroach and assuming that's the only one in your house. It's possible, but very unlikely.

The race stuff... yeah, comparing apples to submarines here.

 

[fancents86]

I also don't think my smiley face comment was as silly as saying there is no difference bw dragging someone out by their hair or their shoulders.

 

[Boffo97]

I also don't think my smiley face comment was as silly as saying there is no difference bw dragging someone out by their hair or their shoulders.

Either way, the professional football player was dragging the unconscious woman he knocked out in the elevator. Dragging by the hair would hurt more, but almost irrelevantly so considering she just got punched out.

 

[fancents86]

It is a far, far safer assumption that this has happened more than once than a guy deciding out of the blue to clock his girlfriend with no history of that. It's like seeing one cockroach and assuming that's the only one in your house. It's possible, but very unlikely.

The race stuff... yeah, comparing apples to submarines here.

It's still an assumption. We are also not talking about a sober person here. We are talking about someone who was drinking Patron for hours before hitting his wife. Im not the one to accept excuses, but I've heard too many stories of people doing unacceptable things after a night with ms tequila.

 

[fancents86]

Either way, the professional football player was dragging the unconscious woman he knocked out in the elevator. Dragging by the hair would hurt more, but almost irrelevantly so considering she just got punched out.

What would you like to have him do? Leave her in the elevator?

 

[LesBaker]

@Boffo97 Rice's slap on the wrist was originally two games. Goodell had no say in that, it's mandated by the CBA so the league and the union agreed to it and every player for years who has been convicted of abuse has gotten the same two games. Of course there was never a video showing the act and aftermath on any of the previous cases so there was no public outrage when players struck their spouses.

After the public outcry the suspension was changed to indefinite. The reason Rice was reinstated in part is because Goodell wasn't allowed to do that in the first place.

Janay Rice has said that Ray hasn't ever hit her before and I'll take her at her word. Rather than lie she could easily say nothing. I feel bad for her because of the actual act and then having her life turned upside down and I can't imagine being her and having to relive it over and over because the media turned into jackals on this for sure. It was shameful. I hope they put it behind them and live happily ever after.

 

[Prime Time]

If I did apply a wrong motive to you, I apologize. Not my intention.

It's all good. Wasn't referring to you or anyone else in particular. Just stating that this kind of thing tends to happen over topics like this.

That said, I do still maintain that accidental actions and purposeful actions should be treated differently.

Little's drinking was purposeful. The accident was bad luck after that.

Rice's drinking was also purposeful and probably led him to overreact. During my drinking days I was a mean drunk and did some things I regret. Taking a swing at a cop was not my finest hour. Maybe that's why I tend to be a little less judgmental about things like this than others.

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[fancents86]

It's all good. Wasn't referring to you or anyone else in particular. Just stating that this kind of thing tends to happen over topics like this.



Rice's drinking was also purposeful and probably led him to overreact. During my drinking days I was a mean drunk and did some things I regret. Taking a swing at a cop was not my finest hour. Maybe that's why I tend to be a little less judgmental about things like this than others.

Thanks for the conversation.

I hear ya prime. I'm a happy drunk, but the smallest things will set me off.

 

[Athos]

As messed up as what he did was, I also think it's just as phucked to demonize this man for one bad drunken mistake. Does anyone realize how much he has helped the community of BMore and his fans?

That makes it worse. Thankfully I never met the g-dad on my father's side. Mean SOB drunk who was crazy as fuck and violent as fuck when drunk.

I have NO fucking sympathy for drunks. Especially mean ones. The bastard can burn imo.

 

[Prime Time]

I hear ya prime. I'm a happy drunk, but the smallest things will set me off.

That seems like a conflicted statement and caused me to LOL. In fact that just earned you a place in the 'Best ROD Quotes' thread.

 

[Prime Time]

That makes it worse. Thankfully I never met the g-dad on my father's side. Mean SOB drunk who was crazy as freak and violent as freak when drunk.

I have NO freaking sympathy for drunks. Especially mean ones. The bastard can burn imo.

I grew up with a dad like that and hated every moment of it. Ironically during my 20's I became worse than him.

 

[Boffo97]

What would you like to have him do? Leave her in the elevator?

I would have liked him not to hit her at all. The dragging doesn't really compare no matter how it happened. Still not sure how that even gets remotely compared to a life-saving fireman's carry out of a burning building.

Rice's slap on the wrist was originally two games. Goodell had no say in that, it's mandated by the CBA so the league and the union agreed to it and every player for years who has been convicted of abuse has gotten the same two games. Of course there was never a video showing the act and aftermath on any of the previous cases so there was no public outrage when players struck their spouses.

That is a good point about the CBA. But to me, that just spreads the failure from Goodell to being on the NFLPA as well.

Rice's drinking was also purposeful and probably led him to overreact. During my drinking days I was a mean drunk and did some things I regret. Taking a swing at a cop was not my finest hour. Maybe that's why I tend to be a little less judgmental about things like this than others.

I'm not sure judgmental is quite the right word here, but I can't think of a better one, so que sera sera.

I freely admit I put a lot more emphasis on character than others might. For two reasons:

1. I don't want my Rams fandom to be just because they used to be my local team. The Rams, to me, are the good guys. What Little did was terrible, but to me, the key thing was that it was an accident and there was real remorse. I don't see that from other cases being brought up. Vick only seems sorry he was caught (and, by the way, never served a single day in jail for animal cruelty) and showed he just didn't get what the issue was when he started lobbying to own a dog again. Rice could have come forward any time and said "You know what? What I did was wrong, and it goes way beyond 2 games." He was content to brush it all under the rug until the second video came out (which didn't tell us anything we didn't know, just shoved in our face how awful it was).

If people like these join the Rams and I cheer for them, then to me, the Rams aren't the good guys any more. We might as well be Team 13 against San Francisco's Team 14 or New England's Team 27 for all the difference it makes in the grand scheme of things.

2.The most common argument I encounter is who cares if so-and-so isn't a choir boy if they can help us win. The problem is though is that in the vast majority of cases, they don't. A player who has good talent and great character will do so much more for their team than a player with great talent and crap character almost all of the time. There are exceptions, like Faulk being rumored to have a diva attitude before he came to St. Louis, but they are RARE.

You may ask then how someone proves they're really sorry for what they did and not just that they got caught and I admit that's a good question. But there are some cases where AFAIC, I hope the guy has a good life, but really don't think he should be playing football, and I hope like hell he never ends up a Ram.

 

[fancents86]

Botto, your conclusion of Rice is not what happened at all. Espn did a write up that I will post at the bottom that goes into how this case unfolded. Rice admitted guilt the minute he got out of the elevator. As for Little killing a man bc of drunk driving, That is not an accident or "bad luck." How can you claim accident when it has been proven many times over that someone is more prone to getting into a crash when intoxicated than when not? Did he not get that memo? Pretty sure the law considers that manslaughter. And the fact that he was caught again shows that maybe he wasn't so remorseful after all. The nfl has a hotline set up that if you are too drunk to drive, they will get you. Seems like no player uses that and look at how many have been pulled over for a DUI or hit someone while drunk.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=11551518&src=desktop

 

[Boffo97]

Botto, your conclusion of Rice is not what happened at all. Espn did a write up that I will post at the bottom that goes into how this case unfolded. Rice admitted guilt the minute he got out of the elevator. As for Little killing a man bc of drunk driving, That is not an accident or "bad luck." How can you claim accident when it has been proven many times over that someone is more prone to getting into a crash when intoxicated than when not? Did he not get that memo? Pretty sure the law considers that manslaughter. And the fact that he was caught again shows that maybe he wasn't so remorseful after all. The nfl has a hotline set up that if you are too drunk to drive, they will get you. Seems like no player uses that and look at how many have been pulled over for a DUI or hit someone while drunk.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=11551518&src=desktop

1. I didn't say Rice didn't admit guilt. Guilt was pretty obvious when he got out of the elevator. Not doing that would have been pretty silly. I was noting how Rice going along with the 2 game slap on the wrist didn't seem to indicate much in the way of feeling guilty.

2. Little killing a WOMAN *was* bad luck compared to other people who committed the same crime as him: drunk driving. If the League wants to issue a harsher penalty for that in general, I'm all for it. Hopefully that clears that up.

 

[fancents86]

We obviously have two very different moral views on this subject. In the end, it's not our decision. Good talk and GO RAMS.

 

[LesBaker]

1. I didn't say Rice didn't admit guilt. Guilt was pretty obvious when he got out of the elevator. Not doing that would have been pretty silly. I was noting how Rice going along with the 2 game slap on the wrist didn't seem to indicate much in the way of feeling guilty.

2. Little killing a WOMAN *was* bad luck compared to other people who committed the same crime as him: drunk driving. If the League wants to issue a harsher penalty for that in general, I'm all for it. Hopefully that clears that up.

Again, the CBA decided the suspension, Rice can only do what they told him to do. He wasn't really "going along" with anything, he was serving the sentence dictated by the operating agreement that governs the players.

The NFLPA pushes as hard as possible for the lowest/softest penalties so that their members lose less money by being suspended as little as they can negotiate.