RG Knee...

[CGI_Ram]

84 yards passing after starting out on fire. He couldn't run, he couldn't step into his throw, he couldn't plant, he couldn't do anything real well after hobbling back out there. Not that I care, really. I just think (and thought at the time) that it was negligent to perpetrate the whole "hero" angle Griffin was trying to conjur up for himself. And the fans..... lol. Most of them are most displeased.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread. ... -Out-RGIII

Lol... Those fans are pissed!

I think everyone watching at home agrees... Shanahan fell asleep at the wheel, big time.

 

[Thordaddy]

Honestly, that was hard to watch yesterday. The kid was CLEARLY injured,...not hurt...INJURED. Bamaham should be ashamed of himself for leaving him out there like that. Does it really surprise anybody though? He rode T Davis into an early retirement by playing him with a bad wheel on multiple occasions. Even used him as a decoy in the first Superbowl even though Davis has a migraine so bad that he was actually BLIND at the time. Hopefully RG's knee will be ok, but I am not so sure. That thing buckled pretty bad on that last plant. Nasty.....

That's Shamaham. Always lookin' out for Shamaham. At the very least, when the guy's in a knee brace and clearly not 100%, you probably shouldn't DESIGN plays for him that have him running. But there's the rub. That entire offense is centered around the QB running the ball, so he really had no choice if he wanted to keep lookin' out for #1.

That's coaches, period, the coaches who look out for the players interest ahead of their own lose jobs faster than anyone.

Last year Spagbuthole played Sam with an injury that was being re-agravated just to try to save his job ,at least Shanahan had the playoff entry and possible advancement to gain from risking the kid.
AND BTW when I conjured that I was ADMONISHED that Fisher had sent McNair out grievously injured . So again ,it's coaches ,they aren't social workers.

In the end we once again are reminded that the great new thing in this league isn't always what produces long term success and prudence.
I don't think Washingtons "win" in this trade is nearly as big as ours should be if we don't screw it up.
RG was bound to be used that way, the future is now in the NFL and no-one was going to pass on using a guy that way when they drafted BECAUSE he COULD do those things.

Why does a cat lick his nuts? Because he can,if Bradford was as dynamic a runner as RG , we'd be cheeriing like mofos right up to the play he got hurt, then we'd be holding our chins in our hands and wisely making the better decision in retrospect.
They love you win or win.
BTW I wached the game ,all of it, and RG was never IMO able to drive off that leg when he was throwing never mind being unable to run like he was asked to.
Indy got the best QB by far ,by far.

That's the thing tough. Coaches who look out for themselves by playing guys injured, don't have job security either. What do you think happens to Shamaham if this whole Dr's report that he lied about forces their HUGE investment in Griffin to be a waste? By playing him when he's hurt like that, he can shorten his career and set the whole Franchise back.

I'm not going into the Spagnuolo/Bradford thing again.

And I disagree about your hypothetical. If the Rams were in that position, and had a backup like Cousins on the roster, I wouldn't be cheering for Bradford to be limping back into the game without being able to put any weight on his leg. PARTICULARLY if he was a run-first QB like Griffin. Not in retrospect, and not in present-tense. My view of coaching continuity and longevity ties directly into my view of protecting the Franchise's interests by protecting the Franchise players. Smart decisions focused on long-term interests shouldn't get smart coaches canned.

But that's just my opinion.

Well I SUPPOSE WE ARE TALKING PAST EACH OTHER, when I said that about cheering I was reffering to up until the initial injury.

Cousins played well in RG's abscence, but IMO after three weeks to four weeks of film got out on him he'd have been solved and wouldn't BE quite the great replacement sort of the way people have solved ALL but the running of Kaepernick.
In the end though, had Washington won , RG would be the toughest thing since a steak at Ponderosa, Shanny would have been a great decision maker the Doc woulda sSTFU, but LIKE you in this situation, I question Spags treatment of Sam last year and again at least there was something for the Skins to gain from the risk.
BUT AGAIN, I expect some time we will see the Fisher King disappoint or delight us in similar circumstances, I'm cynical, and fart often so in person I'm not much better. :omg: :tooth:

 

[CGI_Ram]

I'm traveling and unable to post the whole article from my iPad... But this was a good read. I've pasted the "best part of the story".

Pretty much jives with everything we are saying here.


http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... f-the-game


The problems (plural) begin with the fact it wasn't true. Griffin was injured. He entered the game injured, still wearing a brace to protect against further injury from the ligament sprain he suffered four weeks earlier in Baltimore. On Sunday morning, a USA Today story quoted Redskins team physician James Andrews saying he was "a nervous wreck" letting Griffin play so soon after the injury. When Griffin clearly aggravated the injury on a first-and-goal pass attempt in the first quarter Sunday, alarm bells should have been going off, and Griffin's bravado should not have been enough to silence them. Not for the coach who traded three first-round picks and a second-round pick to get him, and who's charged with the care and maintenance of his long-term health.

This is easy for me to say, yes, but that's the point. I had no stake in the Redskins winning or losing Sunday's game. Shanahan did. This necessarily intensifies the difficulty of making the right decision with regard to a player's long-term health. Shanahan admitted as much, though he also insisted that, "If we felt it had something to do with Robert's career and injury, we wouldn't have left him in the game."

I say they got that wrong, and that letting your franchise quarterback stay in a hyper-intense football game on a sloppy field when he's favoring an already-injured knee is a high-level mistake. I give Shanahan credit for admitting that he may have made the wrong decision; I just believe it's clear that he did. In hindsight, for sure, and from the consequence-free comfort of the press box while it was ongoing. But the fact that it was hard for Shanahan to see the right decision does not excuse him from failing to make it. He gets paid $7 million a year to make the biggest decisions for the Redskins, and he whiffed on this one.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Experts debate the decision to leave RG3 in the game:

[espn]8820386[/espn]

 

[-X-]

Ugh. :neh:

It would be a good discussion if Herm Edwards could talk without sounding like he's all jacked up on Mountain Dew.

 

[Thordaddy]

Ugh. :neh:

It would be a good discussion if Herm Edwards could talk without sounding like he's all jacked up on Mountain Dew.

Yeah , he's pretty animated, but the people who question Shanny would be questioning him had he played Cousins and lost,the only way the decisions he made would be vindicated is winning and he didn't so NOW he's a dummy.

Either way, our harvest from that trade is looking better and theirs worse to me. PART of why I say that is the concussion RG had against US, these are two pretty bad injuries in one year, it ain't gonna get better. RG's game is running as well as passing and the chances of keeping a guy who plays THAT way healthy for 19 games ( minimum for a SB WIN) get worse every year he plays , this IMO SHOULD be the healthiest year of his career all things being equal. IF HE KEEPS playing this way he's not gonna play 10 years.

 

[-X-]

Ugh. :neh:

It would be a good discussion if Herm Edwards could talk without sounding like he's all jacked up on Mountain Dew.

Yeah , he's pretty animated, but the people who question Shanny would be questioning him had he played Cousins and lost,the only way the decisions he made would be vindicated is winning and he didn't so NOW he's a dummy.

You're quite the contrarian, aren'tcha? :lol:

You have a point, but hypotheticals aren't applicable. They did lose. Griffin was ineffective.

What did you think at the time? If you were watching. Did you think Griffin should have been left in after he took his helmet off, rolled around in pain (playing the hero card), and then hobbled back into the game like he was just kneecapped by Paulie Walnuts?

Forget what Griffin said, forget what Shamaham thought, forget what the Doctor is saying now.
What would YOU have done?

 

[-X-]

You just KNEW Peter King would weigh in on this today.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne ... wild-card/

Some of the second-guessing about Robert Griffin III was actually first-guessing.

It's been a dream season for young quarterbacks, enough of one almost to make you forget about the real dangers of playing this sport. I remember last spring watching tape on Griffin and Andrew Luck and, just from the tape, thinking the rocket-armed and mobile Griffin was better -- but I thought I'd rather have Luck as a quarterback to build around. Simple reason: the injury factor. I worried about the 218-pound Griffin, as exposed as he made himself, getting hurt. And I thought Luck would have a better chance to play a 16-game season than Griffin over time. I recall asking Bill Polian, who studied both men thinking he might draft one in Indy before being fired, who he'd take. "I'd probably pick Luck,'' Polian said. "When you boil it all down, you worry a little about running quarterbacks getting hurt. But it's close. Very close.''

So now we come to Washington's first playoff game with Griffin at the controls, Sunday at home against Seattle. He was already playing with a sprain of the lateral collateral ligament, and, after getting banged around a couple of times early in the game, it became apparent he wasn't healthy. In fact, on a jog out of bounds shy of a first down, it was clear he was severely limited and unable to run at anything close to a sprint. Coach Mike Shanahan asked Griffin then, and again at halftime, about his knee, and both times Griffin insisted he was okay. "I guarantee I'm not injured,'' Griffin told Shanahan at the half. But in the fourth quarter, bending to get an errant snap, Griffin crumbled to the ground, and his wounded knee hyperextended awkwardly. He was done. He'll have an MRI today, and his future is cloudy.

"It's a tough decision,'' said Shanahan, "and you've got to go with your gut. I'm not saying my gut was right. I'll probably second-guess myself."

A quarterback, Griffin said, has to lead his team and sometimes play while hurt. That's what a leader does.
Two points:

• Griffin was so obviously not himself, and so tentative moving around, and the Redskins and their medical staff should have seen this. Griffin clearly has a they'll-have-to-drag-me-off-the-field mentality and needs to be protected from himself. Shanahan should know this. I believe he should have pulled Griffin out of the game before the half, for good.

• Washington's Griffin-led drives after its first two scores went 8, 3, 23, 4, 17 and minus-12 yards. In 41 minutes after his team went up 14-0, Griffin generated four first downs. In the game Washington had to play without Griffin, fellow rookie Kirk Cousins led a 38-21 rout at Cleveland Dec. 16. By the middle of the second quarter, it was obvious to anyone watching that a healthy Cousins would have been a better option than a limping Griffin.

I do not -- do not -- blame Shanahan entirely here. Even if there's a frosty relationship between noted team orthopedist James Andrews and Shanahan, Andrews is on the staff, at least in part, because he's the foremost expert on knees in the country. He should have the power to speak up when he sees something obviously wrong with the franchise quarterback. And Griffin is not blameless here either. He's an adult. If he swears over and over he's fine, the coach has to listen to that and take that into account. "I wasn't lying,'' said Griffin. "I was able to go out and play, period."

So I'm not putting the black hat on one man. It's unfair. But let this be a lesson to this team, and every other one in the league: It's best to put safeguards in place before something like this threatens the short-term future of the starting quarterback in the heat of a playoff game.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne ... z2HJUYdyYk

 

[Ramhusker]

Ugh. :neh:

It would be a good discussion if Herm Edwards could talk without sounding like he's all jacked up on Mountain Dew.

Yeah , he's pretty animated, but the people who question Shanny would be questioning him had he played Cousins and lost,the only way the decisions he made would be vindicated is winning and he didn't so NOW he's a dummy.

You're quite the contrarian, aren'tcha? :lol:

You have a point, but hypotheticals aren't applicable. They did lose. Griffin was ineffective.

What did you think at the time? If you were watching. Did you think Griffin should have been left in after he took his helmet off, rolled around in pain (playing the hero card), and then hobbled back into the game like he was just kneecapped by Paulie Walnuts?

Forget what Griffin said, forget what Shamaham thought, forget what the Doctor is saying now.
What would YOU have done?

I would of taken him out after he limped for a 7 yard gain around left end. I forget what part of the game it was, early 3rd qtr I think. Cousins was your best option at that point. A drunken couch potato, arm chair QB, pot bellied pig like myself could plainly see it at that point. So why couldn't a professional coach? Defies logic.

 

[Angry Ram]

Media is making it out to be some sort of national tragedy. It's so annoying. And infuriating.

 

[Ram Quixote]

You just KNEW Peter King would weigh in on this today.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne ... wild-card/

Some of the second-guessing about Robert Griffin III was actually first-guessing.

It's been a dream season for young quarterbacks, enough of one almost to make you forget about the real dangers of playing this sport. I remember last spring watching tape on Griffin and Andrew Luck and, just from the tape, thinking the rocket-armed and mobile Griffin was better -- but I thought I'd rather have Luck as a quarterback to build around. Simple reason: the injury factor. I worried about the 218-pound Griffin, as exposed as he made himself, getting hurt. And I thought Luck would have a better chance to play a 16-game season than Griffin over time. I recall asking Bill Polian, who studied both men thinking he might draft one in Indy before being fired, who he'd take. "I'd probably pick Luck,'' Polian said. "When you boil it all down, you worry a little about running quarterbacks getting hurt. But it's close. Very close.''

So now we come to Washington's first playoff game with Griffin at the controls, Sunday at home against Seattle. He was already playing with a sprain of the lateral collateral ligament, and, after getting banged around a couple of times early in the game, it became apparent he wasn't healthy. In fact, on a jog out of bounds shy of a first down, it was clear he was severely limited and unable to run at anything close to a sprint. Coach Mike Shanahan asked Griffin then, and again at halftime, about his knee, and both times Griffin insisted he was okay. "I guarantee I'm not injured,'' Griffin told Shanahan at the half. But in the fourth quarter, bending to get an errant snap, Griffin crumbled to the ground, and his wounded knee hyperextended awkwardly. He was done. He'll have an MRI today, and his future is cloudy.

"It's a tough decision,'' said Shanahan, "and you've got to go with your gut. I'm not saying my gut was right. I'll probably second-guess myself."

A quarterback, Griffin said, has to lead his team and sometimes play while hurt. That's what a leader does.
Two points:

• Griffin was so obviously not himself, and so tentative moving around, and the Redskins and their medical staff should have seen this. [hil]Griffin clearly has a they'll-have-to-drag-me-off-the-field mentality and needs to be protected from himself[/hil]. Shanahan should know this. I believe he should have pulled Griffin out of the game before the half, for good.

• Washington's Griffin-led drives after its first two scores went 8, 3, 23, 4, 17 and minus-12 yards. In 41 minutes after his team went up 14-0, Griffin generated four first downs. In the game Washington had to play without Griffin, fellow rookie Kirk Cousins led a 38-21 rout at Cleveland Dec. 16. By the middle of the second quarter, it was obvious to anyone watching that a healthy Cousins would have been a better option than a limping Griffin.

I do not -- do not -- blame Shanahan entirely here. Even if there's a frosty relationship between noted team orthopedist James Andrews and Shanahan, Andrews is on the staff, at least in part, because he's the foremost expert on knees in the country. He should have the power to speak up when he sees something obviously wrong with the franchise quarterback. And Griffin is not blameless here either. He's an adult. If he swears over and over he's fine, the coach has to listen to that and take that into account. "I wasn't lying,'' said Griffin. "I was able to go out and play, period."

So I'm not putting the black hat on one man. It's unfair. But let this be a lesson to this team, and every other one in the league: It's best to put safeguards in place before something like this threatens the short-term future of the starting quarterback in the heat of a playoff game.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne ... z2HJUYdyYk

Back in 2008, Jackson had that mentality. After ensuring Haslett he was ready to go against the Cards, he played one series and sat for the rest of the game. Since then, if he wasn't ready to go, he hasn't played. Jackson learned his lesson. How long before Griffin learns?

 

[Username]

Him not even attempting to go after that fumbled snap was pussy shit. I don't care how hurt he was. I was rooting for them to lose, and it even pissed me off.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Him not even attempting to go after that fumbled snap was wuss shyte. I don't care how hurt he was. I was rooting for them to lose, and it even pissed me off.

:hahaha:

 

[Selassie I]

Him not even attempting to go after that fumbled snap was pussy shit. I don't care how hurt he was. I was rooting for them to lose, and it even pissed me off.

Preach it Brudda !

 

[RamsNation]

Just pure stupidity by Shanahan he is risking his future QB for 1 game and look what happened.I never wish for injury but if this carries over to next season and he can't play that's a better pick for rams nation!!! Just being honest I know a lot of you thought it but thought it would come off as cruel to say it so Fluck it!!!!

 

[OttawaRamsFan]

Him not even attempting to go after that fumbled snap was wuss shyte. I don't care how hurt he was. I was rooting for them to lose, and it even pissed me off.

I'm assuming you've never had a serious knee injury. I am a huge Rams fan, and part of me is hoping RG3 is out next year so the Rams get a high pick, but I love this dude. He's no wuss that's for damn sure.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

.

 

[brokeu91]

There is now a report from CNN.com that RGIII has a torn ACL and MCL.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/01/08/rgiii ... t=hp_t2_a2

 

[-X-]

There is now a report from CNN.com that RGIII has a torn ACL and MCL.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/01/08/rgiii ... t=hp_t2_a2

Yeah, I'll wait for official word. That's a report about a report citing "several people with knowledge of the test results." lol. This is like that paparazzi trying to get a shot of Brangelina's baby. Bottom line is, everyone's concerns (about the durability of Griffin) are going to be confirmed. And it's not his fault really. Chances are good that if he was being groomed as a pocket passer, this might not have happened to him (again). Then again, that's not who he is, and that's not why he was drafted.

Too bad. He's a good guy and all, but I think deep down we all want them to come out on the wrong side of this trade. For a myriad of reasons. It's just unfortunate that it has to be the result of a pretty painful injury instead of the whole team sucking.

Also makes you wonder if this is why they hedged their bets by taking Cousins in the same draft.

 

[Thordaddy]

Ugh. :neh:

It would be a good discussion if Herm Edwards could talk without sounding like he's all jacked up on Mountain Dew.

Yeah , he's pretty animated, but the people who question Shanny would be questioning him had he played Cousins and lost,the only way the decisions he made would be vindicated is winning and he didn't so NOW he's a dummy.

You're quite the contrarian, aren'tcha? :lol:

You have a point, but hypotheticals aren't applicable. They did lose. Griffin was ineffective.

What did you think at the time? If you were watching. Did you think Griffin should have been left in after he took his helmet off, rolled around in pain (playing the hero card), and then hobbled back into the game like he was just kneecapped by Paulie Walnuts?

Forget what Griffin said, forget what Shamaham thought, forget what the Doctor is saying now.
What would YOU have done?

Why yes, from the south of Contraria, known for it's wise and extraordinarily handsome older men, was it my accent that gave it away? :ww:

As far as your second question, one of the "wisdoms" passed down from one generation to another here in Contraria is the moral of the story of Peter in the garden with Christ, story goes Christ tells his head boy Peter, when "the man"comes to get me, you're gonna say, whos' Jesus.
Peter sez naw bro, we down, I won't turn on ya.
Then when the bust goes down Pete sez ,"never seen that mudah befo"
See Pete believed what he said to Jesus but that was a hypothetical and he wasn't IN THE MOMENT, and really didn't KNOW he was basically unable to KNOW until HIS NUTS were in the vice.
So IF I were Shanny ardunno, watching LAST WEEK, I knew RG wasn't the same guy, and he played, I've been saying he was worse than was being reported since THEN , since his first run last week ,SO this decision wasn't that isolated moment.

Shanahan has been dealing with this for about a month, he's probably SEEN Griffin have to gather himself in practice maybe even cry out in pain in practice.

So the decision to play the guy had paid off with a win last week against the Cowboy's who I don't think they beat w/o Griffin.

In the end the payoff for playing him was pretty large especially when seen through the expanded view of all "moments" that contribute to a decision.

This whole RG saga, reminds me of some things , that you wouldn't GIVE what Washington did FOR him if you didn't intend to use him as a runner because as an arm ALONE he wasn't really worth the price , so the reality of him taking a RB's beating has always been foregone conclusion and as such the REAL question for me is, would I draft him in the first place? and with all the wisdom of hindsight I say NO, I'd trade the pick and wait on the DT's and LB's and hard hitting safeties of the NFL to vindicate that decision. Which I think has been done.

RG was taken into the training room AFTER he was hurt , they re taped his knee he said he was fine,BTW something that isn't widely conversed is that Kurt Warner became quite short with Dick Vermeil during our SB win BECAUSE DV was considering replacing him because of injury .
Coaches routinely have said that the player insisted upon being "good to go" it's something that happens ALL the TIME, I saw Terry Bradshaw knocked cold in the first half of a reg season game against the STL Cardinals ,thought we were going to win , then he came back into the game and leads a comeback, Staubach did it several times.
FOR ME, Shanahan's job is to put you on the field , the medical staffs job is to take you off , and further to refrain from giving the press exculpatory testimony , if the Dr. didn't want the guy on the field his duty of care is to come forward and say, "he's out".
Shanahan had a football team to run, he had the right to assume the player could go and let the med staff do their job.
This again is unique IMO when viewed from the payoff vs. risk perspective and those who are hammering Shanahan in the media are just part of the pack mentality and are safe within the knowledge that bad news sells and are crucifying a man who has proven to ME at least that he is a quality HC who his detractors can only "hang with" when availing themselves of hindsight.
JMO but had this been one of the media darlings like Herman Edwards instead of a crusty bastard like Shanahan, the spin would be quite different.
Us Contrarians usually , take the pulse of the media and assume they are playing follow the leader so the predominate opinion gains NO cred because of the number who agree.