Ray Lewis explains why elite quarterbacks are less valuable than dominant defensive players

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Soul Surfer

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I don't play the goalpost moving game.

I've had this conversation to before to the point where I'm bored silly with it.

Believe what you want to believe. I don't care.

I know it's a team game it's not tennis.
 

Soul Surfer

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What gives a team sustained success is the organization and consistency.

You don't have a good quarterback without good scouting.

You don't have a good quarterback without good development.

You don't have a good quarterback without a good O line, (to a certain degree depending on the quarterback's ability to see open receivers quickly and know the consistent system).

You don't have a good quarterback without good wide receivers catching the ball.

You don't have a good offensive line good wide receivers.
Without good coaches developing players that were well scouted for that consistent system.

I promise you I don't mean to be rude here because I understand quarterback worship.

But I just have to chuckle at people who think this incredibly complex game just comes down to finding the right quarterback without even realizing you can't find the right quarterback without the right scouting department and you can't develop the right quarterback without the right coaches.
 

DCH

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A well-developed QB is the biggest indicator of success - that doesn't mean grabbing the most talented guy, it means putting together a good offensive system and finding someone who drives that system, then letting both grow together for years. See Brady, Tom. See Roethlisberger, Ben. See Brees, Drew.

That said, in terms of a pure talent infusion, a defensive player can make a bigger impact in a shorter amount of time. Donald is unquestionably one of the 3 or 4 best players in the NFL, and he was a high-impact dominant player right out of the chute.

For the Rams to succeed, they need Donald to remain in the fold and they need to let Goff and McVay's offense grow together. The better a QB understands an offense and the more time he's spent in it the more successful said offense will be, regardless of who is around him. O-line deficiencies? Certainly not great, but the experienced QB will know based on experience in his offensive system where the pressure is likely to come from and can work to avoid it. Mediocre receivers? Again, not great, but the experienced QB will be playing with roles rather than players - he knows where his X is going to be on a particular play, and who is going to be open.

A dominant DT can open up the defense in a short amount of time, but a properly invested-in QB makes the entire team succeed. High floor vs. high ceiling.
 

So Ram

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Nowhere did I say we should let Donald walk. But if some idiot team was willing to trade an elite QB for him, then we would be stupid not to do so. (It won't happen) But I was being theoretical about it.

Elite QBs will win WAY more championships than an elite defensive player of any position.

Well I guess your a Cal fan then . Lmao

Either that or not a Jared Goff or Aaron Donald fan , & maybe a little Green closet Packer fan. This is the week to take Pride in it. The parade just ended . A perfect work for Packer fans. The weather in the Bay was a little overcast , but the Spirit was great . Got to Love SF !!

Then again Aaron Rogers even made Jared Cook look like a pro bowler. He sure looked like crap the first half of the season. The Rams even had a better record still after losing to the 9ers.
 

Zaphod

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I agree with this article.

As a long time NFL fan watching & diving deep into most things NFL Its apparent to me that if I were a GM I would be drafting heavy early each draft primarily centering in on defensive players. Teams selecting highly drafted players in the first & 2nd days of the draft ...a defensive player can usually go to work day one & produce @ a much higher rate than most all offensive players with some rare exceptions like RB's. The D's earn their paychecks while the O's often than not just play like :poop:.

I will go back to some of our past Ram drafts here: 2012 draft where the Rams drafted 6 players 3 (O's)& 3 (D's)with their first 6 selection in rounds 1 thru 4. The D's Brockers/ JJ & Tru :Dall pretty much started & were outstanding picks. The 3 (O's) Quick/ Pead & Givens:huh:.

Take a look @ 2013, 2 first round picks (O) TA who was a #8 overall pick & (O)Tree who was a very late #30 pick. Tree started day1 & has produced playing SSLB, then WSLB & then MLB the last four seasons. The (O) player has yet to play to the level of tree as they move into their 5th seasons. In addition look at the next 2 players selected (D) TJ McDonald & (O) Stedman Bailey. The D started day one & produced @ a high level for 4 seasons when healthy.

2014 (O) GRob vs (D) AD event both high first round picks same draft & look at the difference in production. Different as night & day the (D) dominant in early production of the defensive player. Going deeper into the 2nd day of the 2014 draft Rams drafted (O) Mason & 2 (D's) Joyner & Alexander. I'll let you figure out who has produced more & who has the brighter future going forward.

The 2015 Ram draft was pure offense thus ONLY 2 of the 9 picks are considered starters. Both are coming off bad sophomore slumps too. Snead still retain 6 of these O picks going into their 3rd season but the only D player of this draft Hager a 7th rd LB'er has been a ST ace & played in all of our goal line defense since his arrival. Hager also is the first off the bench reserve for Tree the last 2 season. Snead is still waiting on those O's to consistently produce.

Of the six 2016 draft selections all but 1 were O's. The 1 D, a 6th rd LB'er Josh Forrest came in as a rookie & claimed our starting SSLB'er post.Rotating with Nickle Joyner. Forrest produced nicely until his ACL tear injury. Josh IMO has a bright future here & could replace starter Mark Barron with his 10 million cap hit in 2018 when the Rams will be looking under couch cushions for coins to pay Aaron Donald & Alec Ogletree.Meanwhile the rest of those 2016 offensive picks languished in mediocrity @ best.

The fact that these young offensive players take so much time to produce particularly the OL'ers in our modern times due to the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). A ton of cap $$ put into non productive O players is close to a crime on use of the limited cap funds.

Rams have a full contingent of draft selections in 2018 based on the above I wound be very reluctant to select an Offensive left OT in the first half of the first round & repeat the above of the last 6 drafts listed above. I would lean the most dominating defensive corner or DL (in case the Aaron Donald matter goes sour) to fit Wade D to replace the 31 million $$ departing CB Trumaine Johnson or possibly AD. Once the first day has concluded I making a OLT my #1 find on day two.
I really think you nailed it right here.

The monetary cap is a finite resource that every team has to work within to maintain a competitive roster, and one of the best tools that every team has to address that is the draft. So when you're looking for players to reduce the overall cost of your team through rookie contracts, you want players that can make a more immediate impact. For the most part that means defensive players.

Conversely, under that same umbrella of logic it is more difficult to build an offense, and doing so absolutely creates an opportunity for varying conditions while still maintaining success long term. So you want something average or better offense by hook or crook, so it certainly is a alluring to use the draft on these long term projects. Often enough, teams already suffering offensively due to their entire offensive roster and coaching staff are apt to do this. So in our case, you have to wonder if Goff was the right pick, not because he wasn't the right player, but because he was drafted by the wrong coach.

To expand on that logic, I do think that this is actually a scale of balancing immediate impact and risk at any position on the team versus the lure of developing talent in the draft for the long haul, and I just think that the CBA makes drafting for immediate impact the greater benefit in most cases.
 

BonifayRam

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I really think you nailed it right here.

The monetary cap is a finite resource that every team has to work within to maintain a competitive roster, and one of the best tools that every team has to address that is the draft. So when you're looking for players to reduce the overall cost of your team through rookie contracts, you want players that can make a more immediate impact. For the most part that means defensive players.

Conversely, under that same umbrella of logic it is more difficult to build an offense, and doing so absolutely creates an opportunity for varying conditions while still maintaining success long term. So you want something average or better offense by hook or crook, so it certainly is a alluring to use the draft on these long term projects. Often enough, teams already suffering offensively due to their entire offensive roster and coaching staff are apt to do this. So in our case, you have to wonder if Goff was the right pick, not because he wasn't the right player, but because he was drafted by the wrong coach.

To expand on that logic, I do think that this is actually a scale of balancing immediate impact and risk at any position on the team versus the lure of developing talent in the draft for the long haul, and I just think that the CBA makes drafting for immediate impact the greater benefit in most cases.
:yess:

Can you share some of your superior :lifting: working brain pills with me? Very well said!:bow:
 

HE WITH HORNS

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Well I guess your a Cal fan then . Lmao

Either that or not a Jared Goff or Aaron Donald fan , & maybe a little Green closet Packer fan. This is the week to take Pride in it. The parade just ended . A perfect work for Packer fans. The weather in the Bay was a little overcast , but the Spirit was great . Got to Love SF !!

Then again Aaron Rogers even made Jared Cook look like a pro bowler. He sure looked like crap the first half of the season. The Rams even had a better record still after losing to the 9ers.

I think Donald is great, and I'm glad he's on the team. My point was that an elite QB is FAR more valuable than any DT could ever be.

And Goff is far from elite at this point. He was one of the worst QBs in the NFL last year. Will he improve and become great? Maybe, but it's far from guaranteed.

And I was just using Aaron Rogers as an example of a great QB, I could care less about Cal or Green Bay, or any other team right now.
 

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An elite defense may win a championship over a high scoring offense, but they do not keep you in the playoff discussion year after year. Name an elite defense that lasted a longer than a few seasons. I can't but I can name QBs that were consistently in the playoffs.
LA Rams, 1972-1979..Without that defense, we would not have won 7 straight NFC West Titles in a row. We DID miss an elite QB in that stretch...but the defense did keep the Rams in the "discussion" year after year.
 

RamsOfCastamere

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LA Rams, 1972-1979..Without that defense, we would not have won 7 straight NFC West Titles in a row. We DID miss an elite QB in that stretch...but the defense did keep the Rams in the "discussion" year after year.

After I posted I was expecting someone to mention the fearsome foursome era. In the modern era, I can't think of many. The Steelers are within the discussion but Ben is amazing. Can't think of much other than that.
 

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After I posted I was expecting someone to mention the fearsome foursome era. In the modern era, I can't think of many. The Steelers are within the discussion but Ben is amazing. Can't think of much other than that.
Well, only Merlin Olsen was left from the Fearsome Foursome to the 1975 season. That defense was a Super Bowl defense, and with even a Top 10 QB, the Rams might be the team of the 70's and not the Steelers or the Cowboys. Seven years is mindblowing, and so is the lack of Super Bowl wins for those teams. We went to the Super Bowl with the weakest team in that 7 year span....(IMO)
 

Rynie

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Wrong. You need a franchise QB to win games. If QB's are less valuable than defensive players, why aren't teams drafting mainly defense instead of trying to find their franchise QB?

Yes, you need defense, but QB is the most important position.
 

Scirca

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I would take an Elite QB in a heartbeat over an elite defensive player. Wouldn't even think twice about it. The fact that this is even debatable is a joke.
 

Soul Surfer

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To me the debate is not whether or not you would rather have an elite quarterback over an elite defensive player.
To me the debate is, it's funny that people think that an elite quarterback can do "magic" all by himself.
An elite defensive player, ESPECIALLY a defensive tackle CAN change the course of a game all by himself.
The Houston Texans first pick was an "elite" quarterback, who, because he had no support system around him was soon out of the league.

He, like Bradford was absolutely destroyed because he had no support system around him.

The biggest reason Dak Prescott looked like a future hall-of-famer was because he had a very good support system around him.

If you are building a team from scratch, I would personally go with an elite left tackle as my first pick.

There are only maybe 10 quarterbacks that are "elite" at the moment.

Only the ones with good support systems around them look elite.

If I am building a team from scratch or even rebuilding a team, I don't chase unicorns and make my first pick a quarterback.
 

Selassie I

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Nothing is more important than the QB in today's NFL.

Also... I greatly look forward to the day that our QB out plays our punter. That shit has got to end.
 

Loyal

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Nothing is more important than the QB in today's NFL.

Also... I greatly look forward to the day that our QB out plays our punter. That crap has got to end.
Naw bruh, I got mad skills in the red zone ~Johnny Hekker