Rapoport: Indications Are Fisher/Snead Safe For 2016

[RocknRam29]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Gr9iBK2MU

 

[jrry32]

Agree. I'm still not convinced Fisher wants a generally low output offense. I'm guessing when we have a good lead, the edict is to run the clock but this idea that Fish is holding his coordinators back is kind of ludicrous in my mind. He may not have chosen coordinators well but he was obviously open to a spread type offense, is the king of trick plays, and opened it up in Tenn when he had the tools. This does not mesh with the theory of what many want to believe about Fish.

Disagree. In 21 years as a HC, Fisher has had 3 top 10 offenses in PPG (1996, 1999, and 2003) and only 1 top five offense in PPG (2003). That top 5 offense literally ranked 5th. So in 21 years, he's never had an offense ranked more than 5th in the NFL in PPG and finished outside of the top 10 in 18 of the 21 years.

I have a hard time believing that's a coincidence. Fisher has a philosophy. I agree with X. I don't think it's NECESSARILY a bad philosophy but it's limited. And I do think Fisher has more control of the offense than some want to believe. Can I prove that? No.

But I think things have been too consistent under Fisher in both Tennessee and St. Louis for it to be coincidence.

Yes, he tried the spread type offense...but he went away from it very quickly and has never considered going back.

The product has not been good. But I highly doubt it is because Fish is holding anyone back.

I think he does...to an extent. It's not like Cigs or Schotty would have been the best OC ever, though, without Fisher holding the leash.

As to the other theory that very good offensive coordinators are not wanting to come here, I'm not buying that either. If an OC is that good, wouldn't he be thinking that he would have a better than average shot at becoming a HC if Fish gets fired or if he makes this offense suddenly start clicking? So if Fish tries to hold him back, the OC will be able to bring that to Stan at the end of the season when applying to take over (as he would no doubt do). If the offense lights it up, he will be looked at by every other team looking for their next HC. Seems to me to be an excellent opportunity.

We just had an off-season where every OC we pursued wanted nothing to do with the team. I think that one seems pretty accurate.

If an OC is that good, he has options. If Fisher gets fired, it does not help him. He is fired with Fisher. If Fisher tries to hold him back, he's stuck. Fisher is the HC. You don't go to the owner. What do you think will happen to your career if other HCs hear that you went behind Fisher's back?

A good/great OC is going to go to a talented offense where they stand the best chance of getting a job afterwards. Especially with a Head Coach they know won't try to interfere with what they do.

Because it doesn't matter if it's the Rams or Bengals, if the offense lights it up...he's going to get looks either ways. And it's sure a lot easier to light it up on the Bengals than the Rams.

So yea, talent has something to do with it. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if most quality OCs don't want to work with Fisher. Fisher wants the team to run a certain way and that likely does not mesh with the offensive identity of most quality OCs.

 

[SuperMan28]

Good

 

[dieterbrock]

Disagree. In 21 years as a HC, Fisher has had 3 top 10 offenses in PPG (1996, 1999, and 2003) and only 1 top five offense in PPG (2003). That top 5 offense literally ranked 5th. So in 21 years, he's never had an offense ranked more than 5th in the NFL in PPG and finished outside of the top 10 in 18 of the 21 years.

I have a hard time believing that's a coincidence. Fisher has a philosophy. I agree with X. I don't think it's NECESSARILY a bad philosophy but it's limited. And I do think Fisher has more control of the offense than some want to believe. Can I prove that? No.

But I think things have been too consistent under Fisher in both Tennessee and St. Louis for it to be coincidence.

Yes, he tried the spread type offense...but he went away from it very quickly and has never considered going back.



I think he does...to an extent. It's not like Cigs or Schotty would have been the best OC ever, though, without Fisher holding the leash.



We just had an off-season where every OC we pursued wanted nothing to do with the team. I think that one seems pretty accurate.

If an OC is that good, he has options. If Fisher gets fired, it does not help him. He is fired with Fisher. If Fisher tries to hold him back, he's stuck. Fisher is the HC. You don't go to the owner. What do you think will happen to your career if other HCs hear that you went behind Fisher's back?

A good/great OC is going to go to a talented offense where they stand the best chance of getting a job afterwards. Especially with a Head Coach they know won't try to interfere with what they do.

Because it doesn't matter if it's the Rams or Bengals, if the offense lights it up...he's going to get looks either ways. And it's sure a lot easier to light it up on the Bengals than the Rams.

So yea, talent has something to do with it. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if most quality OCs don't want to work with Fisher. Fisher wants the team to run a certain way and that likely does not mesh with the offensive identity of most quality OCs.

Great post. So many great points I'll just say,
Yup, what he said

 

[Debacled]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Gr9iBK2MU

Using First Take to prove a point?

Ballsy. Skip always has to throw in some kind of opinion to cause controversy. Smith on the other hand just yells and blabs like he is asking someone to pop him in the mouth to shut him up. Racism, really? Good ole boy system? HOW does this guy still get his face on TV?

 

[Debacled]

Disagree. In 21 years as a HC, Fisher has had 3 top 10 offenses in PPG (1996, 1999, and 2003) and only 1 top five offense in PPG (2003). That top 5 offense literally ranked 5th. So in 21 years, he's never had an offense ranked more than 5th in the NFL in PPG and finished outside of the top 10 in 18 of the 21 years.

I have a hard time believing that's a coincidence. Fisher has a philosophy. I agree with X. I don't think it's NECESSARILY a bad philosophy but it's limited. And I do think Fisher has more control of the offense than some want to believe. Can I prove that? No.

But I think things have been too consistent under Fisher in both Tennessee and St. Louis for it to be coincidence.

Yes, he tried the spread type offense...but he went away from it very quickly and has never considered going back.



I think he does...to an extent. It's not like Cigs or Schotty would have been the best OC ever, though, without Fisher holding the leash.



We just had an off-season where every OC we pursued wanted nothing to do with the team. I think that one seems pretty accurate.

If an OC is that good, he has options. If Fisher gets fired, it does not help him. He is fired with Fisher. If Fisher tries to hold him back, he's stuck. Fisher is the HC. You don't go to the owner. What do you think will happen to your career if other HCs hear that you went behind Fisher's back?

A good/great OC is going to go to a talented offense where they stand the best chance of getting a job afterwards. Especially with a Head Coach they know won't try to interfere with what they do.

Because it doesn't matter if it's the Rams or Bengals, if the offense lights it up...he's going to get looks either ways. And it's sure a lot easier to light it up on the Bengals than the Rams.

So yea, talent has something to do with it. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if most quality OCs don't want to work with Fisher. Fisher wants the team to run a certain way and that likely does not mesh with the offensive identity of most quality OCs.

Would it make sense to assume that a team with a good or great defense will not have the highest offensive numbers because they don't need them? There is no reason to run out there running up a score or yards or whatever else if the team can win with less.

Yes he has an offensive philosophy that could be considered the opposite of the GSOT. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This is the NFL, being stellar on both sides of the ball is damn near impossible to do, let alone sustain. Want a good example of great offensive statistics? Look what the Bucs put up thursday night. Lots of stats, a decent amount of points...but it all led to an L.

This team is built to win by scoring a moderate amount of points, controlling the ball, and being able to enforce its will in the running game upon opposing teams defenses. When it works it works really well.

Running out to hire the next big name will do absolutely nothing to fix that. All that means is retooling the team again. It also means there will be no sustained success for this team until a viable answer at QB is found. Again I reference last night....not great numbers but look what this team can do when the QB is above pop warner ability.

 

[jrry32]

Would it make sense to assume that a team with a good or great defense will not have the highest offensive numbers because they don't need them? There is no reason to run out there running up a score or yards or whatever else if the team can win with less.

I don't necessarily think so. The 1999 Rams had the #4 defense in PPG Allowed and the 2001 Rams were #7. Great offenses score either ways. The top 4 offenses in PPG this year are Carolina, Arizona, New England, and Cincy. All four have top 10 defenses in PPG Allowed.

Yes he has an offensive philosophy that could be considered the opposite of the GSOT. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This is the NFL, being stellar on both sides of the ball is damn near impossible to do, let alone sustain. Want a good example of great offensive statistics? Look what the Bucs put up thursday night. Lots of stats, a decent amount of points...but it all led to an L.

Except the Bucs didn't do it when it mattered. I want a great offense. Not great offensive stats.

This team is built to win by scoring a moderate amount of points, controlling the ball, and being able to enforce its will in the running game upon opposing teams defenses. When it works it works really well.

I'd rather have a team with a great offense and defense. Yea...when it works...which hasn't been often enough to make the playoffs or even be sitting at .500.

Running out to hire the next big name will do absolutely nothing to fix that. All that means is retooling the team again. It also means there will be no sustained success for this team until a viable answer at QB is found. Again I reference last night....not great numbers but look what this team can do when the QB is above pop warner ability.

Retooling? We don't have the tools to begin with. We're going to have to add the tools one way or another. Might as well aim to be great on offense rather than be content topping out as average.

 

[JackDRams]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Gr9iBK2MU

Not taking a shot at you OP, but damn. Skip is a douche all on his own. But that other guy. Is it so hard to criticize a guy without pulling the race card? Black folks this, black folks that. What a piece of shit this guy is. Skin colour had nothing to do with the discussion. Black folks out there chomping at the bit. So Kroenke won't fire fisher because blacks don't deserve the work? Gimme a god damn break. That dudes a low life.

 

[Debacled]

I don't necessarily think so. The 1999 Rams had the #4 defense in PPG Allowed and the 2001 Rams were #7. Great offenses score either ways. The top 4 offenses in PPG this year are Carolina, Arizona, New England, and Cincy. All four have top 10 defenses in PPG Allowed.



Except the Bucs didn't do it when it mattered. I want a great offense. Not great offensive stats.



I'd rather have a team with a great offense and defense. Yea...when it works...which hasn't been often enough to make the playoffs or even be sitting at .500.



Retooling? We don't have the tools to begin with. We're going to have to add the tools one way or another. Might as well aim to be great on offense rather than be content topping out as average.

We are a QB away from having what Fisher wants (minus all the injuries). If they can't do it with a competent QB I'll be on board with bringing in a different guy. Until then changing the staff does nothing for me.

 

[rdlkgliders]

We will rally around Jeff Fisher and we will play good football.

 

[dhaab]

This decision isn't surprising because our owner doesn't really care about winning football games and is more concerned about moving this team to LA. But to retain Fisher after 4 years of below average results speaks volumes. Fisher has a good idea how to build a defense, but his offenses are consistently AWFUL and that has resulted in more losing than winning.

 

[RamFan503]

Like I said, Fisher should not have anything to do with the offensive philosophy. Ground and pound would be the offensive philosophy. He's not an offensive-minded HC. He needs to know his limitations.

I love going back and forth with you man - I think you do know that. But seriously - he needs to know his limitations above some fans on an internet forum? Are we really giving ourselves that level of knowledge? Don't get me wrong. I love reading your stuff and debating with you. But trying to insert yourself into the brain trust of the Fish staff is just not in keeping with reality. You can assume all you want but there is a distinct possibility that he is not only giving his coordinators leverage but even telling them to figure out a way to open things up. I have no doubt he is giving his game day input - but holding them back when we have rarely been much ahead in our games? I'm thinking that's completely counterintuitive and you are just not going to get to Fish's level with being as dumb as this would make him out to be.

 

[jrry32]

I love going back and forth with you man - I think you do know that. But seriously - he needs to know his limitations above some fans on an internet forum? Are we really giving ourselves that level of knowledge? Don't get me wrong. I love reading your stuff and debating with you. But trying to insert yourself into the brain trust of the Fish staff is just not in keeping with reality. You can assume all you want but there is a distinct possibility that he is not only giving his coordinators leverage but even telling them to figure out a way to open things up. I have no doubt he is giving his game day input - but holding them back when we have rarely been much ahead in our games? I'm thinking that's completely counterintuitive and you are just not going to get to Fish's level with being as dumb as this would make him out to be.

Yes. We have distance from the issue that he doesn't. It give us a perspective he doesn't have.

I said the same thing about Muschamp at Florida and will say the same thing about him at South Carolina. He's a great defensive coach...but he tries to control the offense and only succeeds in stifling it and frustrating his coordinators. He can't see it because he's too close. And he's a coach...he wants to have his hands in everything.

Fisher needs to take a step back and give his OC space. He needs to allow the OC to run the offense and not dictate how it should be run. If he trusts him to call the plays, he should trust him to run the system the way it's supposed to be run.

As people, it's not always easy to recognize our limitations and recognize when we're better off taking a step back and trusting someone else. You run a successful restaurant, Stu. I'm sure you have experience delegating. I don't know if it comes easy to you or not but it doesn't come easy to everyone...and football coaches are usually the worst offenders. But to be a great NFL HC, you have to be able to take a step back, delegate, and trust your coordinators to get the job done...especially on the side of the ball that you don't have expertise in. I think Fisher has problems doing that.

 

[blue4]

This team is built to win by scoring a moderate amount of points, controlling the ball, and being able to enforce its will in the running game upon opposing teams defenses. When it works it works really well.

This is our biggest fault IMO and the biggest reason I don't want Fisher back. It only takes one fumble by a guy having a bad day and your 25 min drives net nothing. Mistakes are costlier in this type of offense simply because you're starting out to score a moderate amount and chew clock. Deficits are like pushing a boulder uphill. Combine those with a team that at best is discipline challenged, and you have dead last offense.

You have an offense that can have a couple of turnovers and still score, or an offense that's got room in the playbook for a 1:45 drive with no timeouts going into the half, then you have a dangerous football team when combined with GW's defense.

 

[den-the-coach]

IMO, I think Rob Boras is one heck of a football coach and he might just be the best offensive coordinator Fisher has had in St. Louis. Now other things have to break right like an actual Quarterback and I'm starting to get concerned that without Quinn the only person that can pressure the QB without a blitz is Aaron Donald.

Too many other things going on within the organization the good news is that most likely one way or another that will be resolved and in 2016 maybe the Rams can just focus on playing good football and IMO they might have the right coordinators now they just need a Field General that can take this team to the next level.

 

[FrankenRam]

I see a decidedly different passing focus...Quick downfield passes. Slants, seams, outs, hitches, RB's, TE's....and much better timing and rhythm....of course the receivers making some nice catches helps....But QB play, was clearly the difference....It was obvious...

That caught my eye as well.

It baffled me all last year and through this year to the point Boras took over how they seemed incapable of injecting any quick developing plays into the O. For me, that does more to help an OL that, though slowly improving, still struggles at times. And anything that helps the OL, by default helps the QB as well. If Boras continues on that path, I'll be happy to have him as the 'permanent' OC.

 

[blue4]

That caught my eye as well.

It baffled me all last year and through this year to the point Boras took over how they seemed incapable of injecting any quick developing plays into the O. For me, that does more to help an OL that, though slowly improving, still struggles at times. And anything that helps the OL, by default helps the QB as well. If Boras continues on that path, I'll be happy to have him as the 'permanent' OC.

Things are definitely improved. I wonder how much is the just the different OC and how much is the focus of the whole staff and players changing now that someone has actually lost their job for poor performance. Perhaps now that Fisher fired one of his guys, he's directed a change in the play selection. Or perhaps Boras is the guy we should have hired. I'm curious which one is accurate.

 

[Antonius]

Fisher's coming back? Sweet, I can't wait until next year when we go 8-8.

 

[Shoman01]

Fisher has 11 more losses until he has the most of any coach in NFL history. Stan wants him to break the record as the Rams coach.

 

[-X-]

I wonder how many head coaches in the league are pounding the table to have one of the following as their starting QB:

A constantly rehabbing Bradford
Kellen Clemens
Austin Davis
Shaun Hill
Nick Foles
Case Keenum

Any of them would be an instant recipe for 11 wins.
12 if they have a good defense.