Rams GM: Re-signing CB Johnson a 'big decision'

[RamFan503]

One other thing on Hill. I just read where he had the third most passes defensed in the nation his senior year. Just sayin'

 

[kurtfaulk]

JMHO of course,
but I wouldn't tag Tru, he's not worth 16.7 mil, and then we'd have to go through the same thing next year------with AD's contract coming up. If we can get a deal worked out----4yrs 52mil? then we keep him. We need at least two more CB's from the draft anyway, as our depth really falls off after Gaines. A 2nd round corner who can not only start, but can develop into a number 1 would be great.

$13m per year? Didn't jj sign for $12m per year with the giants last season? If the Rams wanted to pay that much they would have signed one of them long term last season.

.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Losing JJ did kill us though. The secondary got torched this year compared to last. You can't just keep letting guys go who you develop. That's not how you build a successful franchise.

Torched? I'd say the run defense was more of a problem. When we lost Hill/EJ we did look vulnerable versus some teams.
We can't keep letting young talented players go, I'd definitely agree there. The only way to solve this is to renegotiate BEFORE the final year of a deal. We should have walked JJ & Tru in the room together...then gave them similar deals in 2014....
I'm kinda in the camp of 503....I like Troy Hill...much more than EJ & Joyner.

 

[Legatron4]

Torched? I'd say the run defense was more of a problem. When we lost Hill/EJ we did look vulnerable versus some teams.
We can't keep letting young talented players go, I'd definitely agree there. The only way to solve this is to renegotiate BEFORE the final year of a deal. We should have walked JJ & Tru in the room together...then gave them similar deals in 2014....
I'm kinda in the camp of 503....I like Troy Hill...much more than EJ & Joyner.

I mentioned compared to 2015. The secondary looked fine the first 5 games before injuries hit. Which is why I was against letting go of JJ. Gaines was a question mark coming into the season health wise. But I really didn't like Hill. He got beat too many times to be a number 2.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Gaines was a question mark coming into the season health wise. But I really didn't like Hill. He got beat too many times to be a number 2.

Gaines reminds me of Havenstein...a guy whose measurables didn't equate or explain why he had success as a rookie. And couldn't maintain it the next year. He couldn't duplicate his earlier success in the league. He didn't have the talent.
Hill was lit up...beaten often...but Troy Hill can play. Again, scheme is in effect. Trust that he'll be on this roster in 2017 and Wade will know what to do with him.

 

[Legatron4]

Gaines reminds me of Havenstein...a guy whose measurables didn't equate or explain why he had success as a rookie. And couldn't maintain it the next year. He couldn't duplicate his earlier success in the league. He didn't have the talent.
Hill was lit up...beaten often...but Troy Hill can play. Again, scheme is in effect. Trust that he'll be on this roster in 2017 and Wade will know what to do with him.

I believe in him. He has all the tools to be successful as a corner in this league. Hopefully you're right and Wade can get the best out of him.

 

[BonifayRam]

There is a lot to like about first yr corner Troy Hill @RamFan503, plus some serious sharp negative edges & rawness too. There is a reason Troy is well travelled in his rookie season.

I like the 5-10 Troy Hill's promise & fact is Troy he was our fastest outside corner but that's not really say much, His 40 times usually came close to 4.52 to 4.55 range speed is adequate & much faster than a 2016 EJ Gaines & Lamarcus Joyner which would help out in deeper coverage. This young kid loves to play & appear to have the competitive mind set I like in my CB's. Troy has that quicky twitchy tick to him too, when Troy is not hung over & his brain is working at times... can go low & keep himself there & smooth out in his backpedal. No other Ram corner including the 16 million man Trumaine Johnson can do that. Troy at time does flash a great turn and run too. He also some flashes of instincts. Finally what I saw that really caught my eye was his super quick transition from his coverage responsibilities into a hitter & solid into tackler. Troy couldn't find the football even if it was stuck inside his facemask & his maturity may still be stuck @ around a 12 yr old with a poor overall character.

On Corner EJ Gaines .....his 2016 issues are bases in one area....speed. EJ has lost whatever speed he did have during his rookie season. The damage done in that foot injury appears to be closer to permanent than temporary IMO. EJ has lost most all his acceleration & EJ did not have much to begin with. EJ no longer has any evidence of a burst when playing on the outside receivers. EJ constantly plays back & gives receivers a serious cushion. Finally EJ in 2016 had Zero ability to recover & close ground on the outside receivers. On the plus side I think EJ was the Rams best Nickle corner & he is very good in his coverage of slot receivers. The 5-10 EJ is best in a zone, his maturity is off the charts & plays with a professional touch. DC Phillips is sure to see that EJ should be our starting Nickle & is outstanding in short spaces. Early in 2014 EJ's 40 was 4.5 or 4.6 seconds which was still faster than Trumaine Johnson's 4.61 second 40 back in 2012.

I should include the 2016 rookie Blake Countess (short 5-9 ) in this post...Countess burst into the lineup the last month of the season & in the last 2 games he had 20 tackles starting in place of Lamarcus Joyner in the SSLB/Nickle starting post. One thing that stood out with a very short rookie corner. excellent quickness & a very sure tackler! Countess appears to be a good future prospect @ Nickle & Dime back for Phillips in 2017. Countess has a good 40-yard dash: 4.48 seconds & was a 6th round pick by Philly in 2016.

If I am close to being right here on the Nickel abilities of EJ Gaines & Blake Countess it sure would offer up DC Phillips to consider letting 4th yr DB Lamarcus Joyner join the safety cadre unit to compete for either starting safety posts with Mo Alexander, Cody Davis, M. Christian & Brian Randolph.

 

[A55VA6]

I think we need upgrade at cb

Big time. Especially if Tru goes elsewhere.

 

[OnceARam]

How can we pay a guy that type of money when he can't even stay on the field?

 

[FRO]

Big time. Especially if Tru goes elsewhere.

If Tru goes they'll need two starting caliber CBs. That's very hard to get in one offseason.

 

[BonifayRam]

If Tru goes they'll need two starting caliber CBs. That's very hard to get in one offseason.

I agree on that amount even if Trumaine remains or goes. I would add that when the Rams last went through a HC change back 2012 the Rams added 3 of the teams top 3 CB's that season in UFA ex all pro Cortland Finnegan & the utilization of a 2nd & a 3rd round selection for Janoris Jenkins & Trumaine Johnson & things worked out rather well.

Jeff Fisher let 6 of the Rams 2011 corners i.e. Ron Bartell, James Butler, Bradley Fletcher, Jerome Murphy, Justin King & Al Harris depart in just one off season. Now that's some serious change.:shocked:

If HC McVay & Snead refuse to enter into a $ 60 million contract & Trumaine Johnson & his lonely one INT bolts then a UFA like a A.J. Bouye or the other 40 other UFA corners...then utilize a couple of the first 4 selections for a corner & the Rams should be very well set to go with other five corners i.e. EJ Gaines, Troy Hill, Blake Countess, Mike Jordan and Lamarcus Joyner. so the world will not come to an end after all.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/

 

[jrry32]

Torched? I'd say the run defense was more of a problem.

No, it wasn't. We were third worst in passing TDs allowed. We gave up 32 TDs and only picked off 10 passes.

When we lost Hill/EJ we did look vulnerable versus some teams.

We looked vulnerable when Trumaine was injured. Detroit (and Golden Taint) torched Hill.

We can't keep letting young talented players go, I'd definitely agree there. The only way to solve this is to renegotiate BEFORE the final year of a deal. We should have walked JJ & Tru in the room together...then gave them similar deals in 2014....
I'm kinda in the camp of 503....I like Troy Hill...much more than EJ & Joyner.

And that makes no sense at all. Joyner had a quality year in 2016. E.J. had a quality year in 2014. Hill is the only one in the group who has never put good play on film at the NFL level. Hill stunk up the field this year. He was far worse than both Joyner and E.J.

 

[Dxmissile]

I am a very big fan of Hill and Countess still think w n Ed corners though and luckily this draft is loaded with a lot of talent

 

[jrry32]

Now I'm going to say something that most will likely roll their eyes at. Don't sleep on Troy Hill. He was somewhat of a knucklehead at Oregon and has his one stupid stunt with the Rams. But the kid really came on strong his senior year and seemed to be in on almost every play. But with players like Marriota, Fisher, Armstead, and Grasu getting all the attention at Oregon, I think the kid was overshadowed. The kid plays with attitude and if he has help over the top with bigger receivers could be a player. Keep in mind. JJ pretty much always needed help over the top early on and the two are also built very similarly and have similar speed an strength. Hill may actually be quicker. I'm thinking that if his young stupidity doesn't get in his way, this kid can be real good.

I could not disagree more, RF503. JJ was far quicker and far more physical. On top of that, JJ showed far better route/concept recognition skills, cover skills, and instincts. JJ was a top 10 talent in his draft class who fell due to off the field concerns. Troy Hill was a UDFA who couldn't stick on an active roster as a rookie.

Maybe the kid improves, but he's not JJ. He doesn't have the same level of natural talent. And he played quite poorly for us in 2016. It was more than just gambling and getting burnt deep. Hill was getting beat routinely at every level of the field.

In fact, I was quite disappointed with Hill's lack of physicality and poor tackling on the edge. JJ missed tackles, but he never lacked physicality.

 

[jrry32]

I am a very big fan of Hill and Countess still think w n Ed corners though and luckily this draft is loaded with a lot of talent

Honestly, I'm just not sure what either showed to make you a fan. I'm fine with them fighting for jobs in Training Camp, but I'd bring in a hell of a lot of competition. Because neither guy played well in 2016.

 

[Dxmissile]

Honestly, I'm just not sure what either showed to make you a fan. I'm fine with them fighting for jobs in Training Camp, but I'd bring in a hell of a lot of competition. Because neither guy played well in 2016.

What I saw was potential. Hill went up against some top receivers this year and he did ok. I saw a kid that could run with the faster guys and track the ball. He always looked back to locate the ball and that's probably the most important trait because a lot of guys panick and never turn around even when they are in good position. On Countess it's a small sample size but I think he is a perfect slot guy, he has great instinct closing speed and he is a physical tackler just like hill they both are sure tacklers. I think hill has the potential to be a outside corner a good number or 3 while I think Countess is better in the slot and more suited for the slot then Joyner. . I still think we draft 2 corners and a safety but I feel better on them two guys then I did Gaines.

 

[Dxmissile]

I could not disagree more, RF503. JJ was far quicker and far more physical. On top of that, JJ showed far better route/concept recognition skills, cover skills, and instincts. JJ was a top 10 talent in his draft class who fell due to off the field concerns. Troy Hill was a UDFA who couldn't stick on an active roster as a rookie.

Maybe the kid improves, but he's not JJ. He doesn't have the same level of natural talent. And he played quite poorly for us in 2016. It was more than just gambling and getting burnt deep. Hill was getting beat routinely at every level of the field.

In fact, I was quite disappointed with Hill's lack of physicality and poor tackling on the edge. JJ missed tackles, but he never lacked physicality.

When it's all said and done JJ is a top 5 corner . Hill don't have JJ natural ability not a lot of corners do. But I do think hill is a good tackler for a corner saw him blow up a lot of plays so other guys could make the tackle, he has a lot of work to do to become a better corner but I think the tools and skills are there it's can he get his mind and act together that concerns me

 

[Dxmissile]

I agree on that amount even if Trumaine remains or goes. I would add that when the Rams last went through a HC change back 2012 the Rams added 3 of the teams top 3 CB's that season in UFA ex all pro Cortland Finnegan & the utilization of a 2nd & a 3rd round selection for Janoris Jenkins & Trumaine Johnson & things worked out rather well.

Jeff Fisher let 6 of the Rams 2011 corners i.e. Ron Bartell, James Butler, Bradley Fletcher, Jerome Murphy, Justin King & Al Harris depart in just one off season. Now that's some serious change.:shocked:

If HC McVay & Snead refuse to enter into a $ 60 million contract & Trumaine Johnson & his lonely one INT bolts then a UFA like a A.J. Bouye or the other 40 other UFA corners...then utilize a couple of the first 4 selections for a corner & the Rams should be very well set to go with other five corners i.e. EJ Gaines, Troy Hill, Blake Countess, Mike Jordan and Lamarcus Joyner. so the world will not come to an end after all.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/

I don't think EJ is going to replicate his rookie year at all. I was never sold on his play even after his rookie year. That was the first mistake in a long line of fisher and co not being proactive and getting another corner instead of waiting to end up with sensabaugh.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I'm really conflicted here.

I want Tru back. Another big hole to fill sounds like too much for one offseason... he's a solid player, yet I agree with the durability concerns... so what to offer him? I have no idea.

I'd probably rather make a run at a legit FA WR and an impact at OL, first. CB's seem a little easier to find via draft (and play early)... plus this class looks solid at the position.

Glad I'm not a GM.

 

[jrry32]

When it's all said and done JJ is a top 5 corner . Hill don't have JJ natural ability not a lot of corners do. But I do think hill is a good tackler for a corner saw him blow up a lot of plays so other guys could make the tackle, he has a lot of work to do to become a better corner but I think the tools and skills are there it's can he get his mind and act together that concerns me

That's not what I saw. That game against the Lions sticks with me. Hill tackled like crap in that game, and the Lions murdered us with screen passes because Hill continually failed to fight off blockers and push the play back inside to help. I remember us getting gashed often because he failed to do his job of setting the edge and maintaining outside contain.

I don't see it with the kid. I hope he surprises us. It's one less position to fix, but I'm not counting on him.

What I saw was potential. Hill went up against some top receivers this year and he did ok. I saw a kid that could run with the faster guys and track the ball. He always looked back to locate the ball and that's probably the most important trait because a lot of guys panick and never turn around even when they are in good position.

I disagree. Hill didn't do okay. He got shredded. He had the second worst QB Rating against among NFL CBs this year IIRC. And that backs the eye test of our #2 CB getting burnt week in and week out.

On Countess it's a small sample size but I think he is a perfect slot guy, he has great instinct closing speed and he is a physical tackler just like hill they both are sure tacklers. I think hill has the potential to be a outside corner a good number or 3 while I think Countess is better in the slot and more suited for the slot then Joyner. . I still think we draft 2 corners and a safety but I feel better on them two guys then I did Gaines.

I don't think the game film or metrics back that up. Joyner performed far better this year than Countess did.

Joyner is a punching bag on this board. If Countess started for an entire season in Joyner's spot, people would recognize the night and day difference between the two imo.

I'll be surprised if Countess and Hill make the team next year.