Rams GM: Re-signing CB Johnson a 'big decision'

[Dxmissile]

That's not what I saw. That game against the Lions sticks with me. Hill tackled like crap in that game, and the Lions murdered us with screen passes because Hill continually failed to fight off blockers and push the play back inside to help. I remember us getting gashed often because he failed to do his job of setting the edge and maintaining outside contain.

I don't see it with the kid. I hope he surprises us. It's one less position to fix, but I'm not counting on him.



I disagree. Hill didn't do okay. He got shredded. He had the second worst QB Rating against among NFL CBs this year IIRC. And that backs the eye test of our #2 CB getting burnt week in and week out.



I don't think the game film or metrics back that up. Joyner performed far better this year than Countess did.

Joyner is a punching bag on this board. If Countess started for an entire season in Joyner's spot, people would recognize the night and day difference between the two imo.

I'll be surprised if Countess and Hill make the team next year.

I like Joyner at the slot but I can definitely see a scenario with Wade having him play the Darian Stewart role too. As far as Hill and countess I didn't say they was perfect but I see things in them that inspires confidence. They may very well not be on the team next year because I'm a big advocate of getting 3 corners next year regardless.

 

[Dxmissile]

I'm really conflicted here.

I want Tru back. Another big hole to fill sounds like too much for one offseason... he's a solid player, yet I agree with the durability concerns... so what to offer him? I have no idea.

I'd probably rather make a run at a legit FA WR and an impact at OL, first. CB's seem a little easier to find via draft (and play early)... plus this class looks solid at the position.

Glad I'm not a GM.

I rather go young upside vets on the oline if we lose tru pick up a cb through FA and then draft I rather draft a wr though there should be some good names available when we pick.

 

[jrry32]

I like Joyner at the slot but I can definitely see a scenario with Wade having him play the Darian Stewart role too. As far as Hill and countess I didn't say they was perfect but I see things in them that inspires confidence. They may very well not be on the team next year because I'm a big advocate of getting 3 corners next year regardless.

I'd prefer Joyner at FS too. But if that happens, I'm bringing in plenty of CB competition.

 

[RamFan503]

I could not disagree more, RF503. JJ was far quicker and far more physical. On top of that, JJ showed far better route/concept recognition skills, cover skills, and instincts. JJ was a top 10 talent in his draft class who fell due to off the field concerns. Troy Hill was a UDFA who couldn't stick on an active roster as a rookie.

Maybe the kid improves, but he's not JJ. He doesn't have the same level of natural talent. And he played quite poorly for us in 2016. It was more than just gambling and getting burnt deep. Hill was getting beat routinely at every level of the field.

In fact, I was quite disappointed with Hill's lack of physicality and poor tackling on the edge. JJ missed tackles, but he never lacked physicality.

That's fine. I wasn't expecting it to be a popular thought. But Hill was thrown in there as a complete afterthought and played extremely well given the situation. Did he play like a starting CB who had the coaching and practice time of someone who was scheduled to be a player? Absolutely not. But in reality, even though he was cut from the team for his bonehead maneuver, the Rams figured out a way to get him back in because even with almost no time with our defense or game plan, he simply came in and made plays - unlike the other options. Did he have flaws? Of course he did.

You are right about him lacking some physicality. But even with JJ's draft status, that was a knock on him as well. It stayed with him his first couple years as a Ram. If you remember, it was JJ's coverage skills that many of us defended back then even though he often got burned deep on double moves or by big receivers.

Hill has very good ability to lock on and cover receivers and has a good knack for getting inside a receiver's catch radius. He also has some major springs in those legs. He needs some good coaching. Even though he had a very good senior season at Oregon, saying their defense was poorly coached would be very kind. Pellum was an atrocious DC.

I reserve the right to be way off on this - as do we all. But I wouldn't sleep on the guy.

 

[jrry32]

That's fine. I wasn't expecting it to be a popular thought. But Hill was thrown in there as a complete afterthought and played extremely well given the situation. Did he play like a starting CB who had the coaching and practice time of someone who was scheduled to be a player? Absolutely not. But in reality, even though he was cut from the team for his bonehead maneuver, the Rams figured out a way to get him back in because even with almost no time with our defense or game plan, he simply came in and made plays - unlike the other options. Did he have flaws? Of course he did.

You are right about him lacking some physicality. But even with JJ's draft status, that was a knock on him as well. It stayed with him his first couple years as a Ram. If you remember, it was JJ's coverage skills that many of us defended back then even though he often got burned deep on double moves or by big receivers.

Hill has very good ability to lock on and cover receivers and has a good knack for getting inside a receiver's catch radius. He also has some major springs in those legs. He needs some good coaching. Even though he had a very good senior season at Oregon, saying their defense was poorly coached would be very kind. Pellum was an atrocious DC.

I reserve the right to be way off on this - as do we all. But I wouldn't sleep on the guy.

We all have our opinions. I just don't see it. I didn't think he played well at all. I guess it depends on your expectations. Fair or not, I generally have high expectations. Hill performed like you'd expect a #5 CB to perform when asked to start (badly).

I also disagree with JJ lacking physicality. He was known for it in college, and he still showed it here. Hell, I remember this play well from his rookie year:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHMCTQ6_x_s


KO'd a 6'4" 260 pound TE.

 

[Snaz]

I also disagree with JJ lacking physicality. He was known for it in college, and he still showed it here. Hell, I remember this play well from his rookie year:

KO'd a 6'4" 260 pound TE.

That would be an illegal hit with the new rules.

 

[dolphinlover123]

That would be an illegal hit with the new rules.

which rule? I don't see helmet to helmet contact, not leading with the crown and seems like he hit him with the shoulder below the head and neck area.

 

[FRO]

I always felt Joyner's best position was FS and felt he was a natural replacement for McLeod. Slot CB is crucial, so I understand keeping him there.

 

[WvuIN02]

which rule? I don't see helmet to helmet contact, not leading with the crown and seems like he hit him with the shoulder below the head and neck area.

Likely launching into a defenseless receiver.

Pick your poison, it would 100% be a flag. The NFL doesn't adjudicate anymore by the rules on these hits, if it simply looks bad, it gets flagged.

 

[jrry32]

Likely launching into a defenseless receiver.

Pick your poison, it would 100% be a flag. The NFL doesn't adjudicate anymore by the rules on these hits, if it simply looks bad, it gets flagged.

Launching is only a penalty if you lead with your helmet.

 

[Faceplant]

That would be an illegal hit with the new rules.

That hit was penalized.......

 

[bwdenverram]

Denver lined up 2 very good CB's which is one of the reasons Wade could run the type of man, LOS, coverage he did. If Tru walks we need a back up plan because everyone else dropped off this year, including Gaines. We have holes to fill but getting weaker at the CB position to start doesn't help. So if it happens we better have a good FA plan.

 

[OldSchool]

Every team loses people in free agency, the good teams just find a way to replace them. Somebody just mentioned on the radio that 30 of the Pats 53 man roster weren't there two years ago in the super bowl.

 

[Rams43]

Another excellent thread, and I'll throw in my few thoughts, fwiw.

First and foremost, we can rest assured that Wade has been mulling his options and we can expect another top 5-10 D from him, one way or another.

Having said that, it's fun to speculate on options before FA, trades, and the draft. So here goes...

I hope that Tru can be extended, but it's gotta be at a reasonable number. Another tag is out of the question. Draw a line in the sand at, say, $12-12.5 million per for 5 years? Pick a number, but stick to it. Sweeten the offer with a big guaranteed amount. If he rejects, then let him walk. Cap discipline is required as we look toward extending Donald down the road.

Gaines disappointed last year but it might have been health related. Those lis franc injuries are a bitch. Hell, he may never again reach his promising '14 level. The team doctors have got to get this right. In any case, a CB taken high in this draft looks almost certain. Even if Tru stays.

Unless Wade sees something that most of us are missing, Joyner sure looks like our slot CB. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'm on the fence regarding TJM. Since I don't have a strong opinion either way, even if he's gonna be reasonable it's a coin flip for me. So I'll leave it up to Wade. Lol.

There's probably gonna be some personnel shuffling on DL, LB, CB, and S by Wade. Scheming and game planning changes everywhere. The only thing we should expect with reasonable certainty is that Wade will turn in another top D yet again when all is said and done.

IOW, I'm not too worried about our D this year. We're in good hands there with Wade.

But the O? Got my fingers crossed. I would say that I see only 2 players as locks to start this season. Goff and Gurley. And both of THEM could find themselves riding the pine if they don't both quickly grasp McVay's O and produce in it. Emphasis quickly. How sad is that?

 

[Selassie I]

Couple of things about Tru that I think...

Fisher loved Tru. I believe that Fish wanted the credit for finding him in college... and Fish kept Tru over JJ as a result. Fisher is gone.

I'm not going to say that you can gain a tremendous amount of insight on players by following their social media accounts... but it does give you a glimpse behind the curtains. Not that I wouldn't enjoy The L.A. Lifestyle... but I get the feeling from my peek around the curtain that Tru is REALLY REALLY into The Lifestyle. I hear Joyner's voice telling Fisher about certain players when I think of Tru because of what I see from him on social media.

I wish we would have signed Jack Rabbit. That was a major fuck up by Fish and Co.


And for the love of God... Did somebody in this thread mention Coty Sensabaugh in a positive way? What a fucking disaster that guy is on the field. One of the only positive things that the Rams did last season was to kick Coty the FUCK off the team.

 

[tomas]

Gaines reminds me of Havenstein...a guy whose measurables didn't equate or explain why he had success as a rookie. And couldn't maintain it the next year. He couldn't duplicate his earlier success in the league. He didn't have the talent.
Hill was lit up...beaten often...but Troy Hill can play. Again, scheme is in effect. Trust that he'll be on this roster in 2017 and Wade will know what to do with him.

Havenstein played with a bad foot in 2016 (FO inside information)

 

[LACHAMP46]

Havenstein played with a bad foot in 2016 (FO inside information)

Think about this, guys foot is hurt...he plays poorly...and in one game, he gives up 3 sacks. The hits on your rookie QB keep coming....and finally, mercifully, the RT is replaced. And it's relayed to everyone that he's been playing all season on a bad wheel. What type of team does that? Does that even make sense? Jeopardizes the rookie QB's health, hell, all the QB's health, because we wanna start a guy that's hurt?

 

[BonifayRam]

Think about this, guys foot is hurt...he plays poorly...and in one game, he gives up 3 sacks. The hits on your rookie QB keep coming....and finally, mercifully, the RT is replaced. And it's relayed to everyone that he's been playing all season on a bad wheel. What type of team does that? Does that even make sense? Jeopardizes the rookie QB's health, hell, all the QB's health, because we wanna start a guy that's hurt?

From what my limited knowledge on the Havenstein Unhealthy 2016 campaign .....it was a broke big toe that occurred very early in the season. That damaged toe kept Big Rob out of OTA's & resulted Havenstein being officially placed on the PUP list, Missed all of 2016 Training Camp & most all of the 4 pre season games with the exception of two series in the first quarter of the last (4th) pre season game. It was speculated that Havenstein would have been placed on the IR just before the regular season began if Havenstein had not shown he could play through the pain in those two series.

The toe injury remained a big issue for most of ORT Havenstein's performance. Later in the season Havenstein had other lower leg issues & injuries that indirectly was related to the original toe injury. Havenstein never recovered. It sure did not help that his ORG Cody Wichmann also injured his Lower Leg/Ankle & Cody never recovered from that either & eventually faded completely out of the dressed game numbers & was replaced by Andrew Donnal who would normally back up Havenstein. So there were other issues going on with the OL besides Havenstein. It sure looks like Boudreau totally failed in keeping this OL from degrading from 2015 season.

 

[BonifayRam]

Gaines disappointed last year but it might have been health related. Those lis franc injuries are a bitch. Hell, he may never again reach his promising '14 level. The team doctors have got to get this right. In any case, a CB taken high in this draft looks almost certain. Even if Tru stays.

If we look back @ EJ Gaines all rookie 2014 season....EJ was starting next to future pro bowl all pro Janoris Jenkins. With Trumaine Johnson & Lamarcus Joyner as the main corner reserves. Starting safeties was Rodney McLeod & TJ McDonald which was a very solid secondary. The Rams pass rush had both Aaron Donald & Robert Quinn both going to the pro bowl. If I just stop there we should get a good understanding why EJ had a great rookie season.

 

[StealYoGurley]

Scheme change is definitely something to think about. IMO we were playing way too much zone under Greg Williams. The Broncos on the other hand played the 4th most man coverage last year. Jenkins took his game to another level playing more press man and eliminated alot of the blown coverages and miscommunications in zone. Tru at 6'2 certainly has the size to play in a press man scheme and you can tell in interviews he definitely wanted to play more man and trail number 1 receivers, but that wasn't the gameplan. He had a down year, but certainly didn't have a ton of opportunities for picks with our RCB spot being an absolute sieve.