Rams chat with Jim Thomas: 12/15/15

[Mojo Ram]

If Kaepernick doesn't run he is useless. He is not an improvement over Foles, in passing. Foles can at least read the entire field.

Can he? Serious question.

You guys know i hate the Kap but he did some good things under Harbaugh with an elite RB and defense. I don't think he can win a super bowl but hey...we're 5-8.

 

[jrry32]

Ehhh, i like Britt as more of a #2 guy who can occasionally draw attention like Tavon. I guess what i'm talking about is a WR who can demand coverage no matter the down & distance, and who has the uncanny ability to fight through jump balls, locate etc....you know? Talented Lol.

To the second part of your post i agree. Maybe Welker has another year left.He's looked sharp in very limited duty. Cook should've been that guy.

I agree. I just think that we gotta make sacrifices. Best chance we have is if a rookie WR is that guy...but you can't rely on a rookie to be that. You just gotta hope you get lucky and he is that. Or hope that Anquan Boldin comes over. But I don't expect him to...I think he'll look for more of a true contender.

In the case that Boldin doesn't come over, I'd say that we should grab a solid WR like Nate Washington in FA, another FA with upside that's somewhat of a bargain, and then draft at least one talented WR (I'm partial to Tyler Boyd in the 2nd). And hope that by having a number of solid options, we can find ways to exploit match-ups.(we'd also be keeping Marquez...I'm not expecting Stedman to be ready to play next year)

And, of course, add a TE that can catch the ball in traffic in the draft...that would be nice.

But I agree. Britt makes the most sense as a #2 WR used as a vertical target.(because he's not consistent on the shorter stuff) And we need the ability to draw defenders away from Tavon and get him 1-on-1s.

 

[jrry32]

If Kaepernick doesn't run he is useless. He is not an improvement over Foles, in passing. Foles can at least read the entire field.

Well, Kaepernick will be running. And let's be real...career numbers for Foles and Kaepernick:
Kaepernick
815/1361
59.9%
10,030 passing yards
7.4 YPA
56 passing TDs
26 Ints
88.4 QB Rating
306 rushes
1832 rushing yards
11 rushing TDs
12 fumbles lost
67 offensive TDs
38 TOs

Foles
740/1230
60.2%
8805 passing yards
7.2 YPA
53 passing TDs
27 Ints
87.3 QB Rating
101 rushes
351 rushing yards
5 rushing TDs
10 fumbles lost
58 offensive TDs
37 TOs

To be frank, I'm not sold Foles reads the entire field much if any better than Kaepernick. But even if he does, he doesn't get the ball there any more effectively. And those stats take into account Foles's monster 2013 season. If you take out Foles's best season and Kaepernick's best season, the numbers favor Kaepernick by a WIDE margin.

 

[RamzFanz]

Kaepernick isn't a great QB. But he doesn't suck

Yes, exactly what we don't want next season.

 

[jrry32]

Yes, exactly what we don't want next season.

Okay. Let's hear your solutions then.

Who are we going to bring in that's better than Kaepernick? Even if we bring in a first round QB, odds are we'll be doing them a favor and bolstering our chances if we sit them for a year and play Kaepernick.

 

[RamzFanz]

Give me a crappy passer

OK

How long can we suck in the passing game?

OK

Let me get this straight, you want a crappy passer who was on a great team because he will become a great passer on a suckey team?

 

[jrry32]

OK



OK

Let me get this straight, you want a crappy passer who was on a great team because he will become a great passer on a suckey team?

Or I don't think Kaepernick is a crappy passer but I was making a point as to why, even if you're right, he's still more useful than the guys we have.

Kaepernick is a fairly average starting QB. Foles isn't. Neither is Keenum.

Kaepernick actually wasn't a crappy passer under Harbaugh. He was statistically average to above average. And I don't think our team is sucky. In fact, I think if Kaepernick is used correctly...our team might actually be better for him than SF was. Especially if they can add 4-5 guys to the offense this off-season.(TE to replace Cook, OG to replace Saffold, two WRs to replace Quick and Sted [because his career might be over], and a C to upgrade on Barnes...as well as a QB of the future)

 

[RamzFanz]

What's nonsense is blaming the OL for our QB woes when our QBs rank last in almost every meaningful category while our OL has allowed the fewest sacks in the OL and we lead the NFL in average yards per carry.

Of course, those stats are misleading. Our OL hasn't been elite, great, good, or even solid. But they haven't been the worst in the NFL. Our QBs have.

Our QBs have potential. Nope. Not having this argument again with you. Neither Foles nor Keenum have potential to be anything other bad starting QBs. Foles has been bar none the worst starting QB in the NFL this year. He is an anchor that has held the entire offense back this year.

Nope. I don't know more than that. I actually think Kaepernick is a pretty damn good answer in the short-term. Draft a QB, develop him behind Kaepernick for a year or two, and bolster the OL/WR/TE corps. With Kaepernick's legs creating yet another threat to take defensive attention away from Gurley and Kaepernick's proven ability to manage the game when he has a team and coaching staff around him, the Rams will be able to get the job done.

You must be joking.

Please, tell me you're joking.

So now the O line is only judged with lower sacks and not the QBs that I have been telling you all along avoid sacks?!?

Dude, calm down. Lines that suck let players through. QBs get sacked if they can't avoid the rush. Foles was great in the pocket at avoiding it, That doesn't make the line better. Keenum is better at running outside of the pocket. That doesn't make the line better.

The fact that both Foles and Keenum use their skills to lower sacks doesn't make the line better.

Let's break this discussion down to one point and go from there:

Are you saying our o-line doesn't suck?

 

[RamzFanz]

A trifecta run threat of Gurley, Tavon and Kap would be a pain in the ass to defend. Rams still need an impact threat downfield though. That guy isn't on the roster.

And Kap couldn't throw to him if he was.

 

[jrry32]

You must be joking.

Please, tell me you're joking.

So now the O line is only judged with lower sacks and not the QBs that I have been telling you all along avoid sacks?!?

Dude, calm down. Lines that suck let players through. QBs get sacked if they can't avoid the rush. Foles was great in the pocket at avoiding it, That doesn't make the line better. Keenum is better at running outside of the pocket. That doesn't make the line better.

The fact that both Foles and Keenum use their skills to lower sacks doesn't make the line better.

Let's break this discussion down to one point and go from there:

Are you saying our o-line doesn't suck?

Depends on your definition of suck. Does our OL suck as much as Foles and Keenum? No. And if our OL was actually healthy, it might be a decent unit.

But since you're going there...here are our rankings
QB Rating - 32nd
Passing Yards Per Game - 32nd
Completion percentage - 32nd
Passing TDs - 32nd
Fewest Sacks Allowed - 1st
Rushing Yards Per Carry - 1st

Kind of ironic how much blame you throw at the OL. Are Foles and Keenum blocking for Todd Gurley too? I also recognize how good Todd Gurley is. But the OL, when relatively healthy (i.e. with Reynolds at LG and Havenstein at RT), has actually given Gurley a little something to work with.

But yes, the OL is THE problem. Not the QBs that rank worst in the league.

And Kap couldn't throw to him if he was.

Kaepernick managed to get the ball there in San Francisco.

 

[RamzFanz]

Yes and no. I actually think Britt has shown himself to be a pretty good vertical threat this year. And Austin is also capable of getting over the top if he's got a QB to put it out in front of him. I'd say we're more in need of guys that can get open in the short to intermediate range and catch the ball consistently.(and catch it consistently in traffic on 3rd downs)

You see dude, you live in a wonder land. TA NEVER gets open over the top. NEVER. Has he juked a few players over the years to get open on a crossing pattern, sure, has he ever beat a player with speed? Maybe once. I think I remember once. It was his rookie season and he barely caught that ball.

Since the last time we have had this discussion, TA has been painted by the defender every long pass and he hasn't caught one. Not one. Not even close. And even if every pass was in the basket, he wasn't catching it because the defender was taller and his hands aren't good at all on a long ball. Those are FACTS. Facts that TA himself tells you. You want to make him into something he is not when what he is would produce huge dividends if they would hand him the ball. None of this is opinion, it's proven fact in actual game play.

 

[jrry32]

You see dude, you live in a wonder land. TA NEVER gets open over the top. NEVER. Has he juked a few players over the years to get open on a crossing pattern, sure, has he ever beat a player with speed? Maybe once. I think I remember once. It was his rookie season and he barely caught that ball.

Since the last time we have had this discussion, TA has been painted by the defender every long pass and he hasn't caught one. Not one. Not even close. And even if every pass was in the basket, he wasn't catching it because the defender was taller and his hands aren't good at all on a long ball. Those are FACTS. Facts that TA himself tells you. You want to make him into something he is not when what he is would produce huge dividends if they would hand him the ball. None of this is opinion, it's proven fact in actual game play.

Those aren't facts. Those are your opinions. You know the difference.

You know what wonderland is? It's the place where Nick Foles isn't to blame for his god awful QB play.

But I know...Nick Foles can't drop it in over the top. It's just not who he is. Which is why he's a shitty QB.

 

[RamzFanz]

Depends on your definition of suck. Does our OL suck as much as Foles and Keenum? No. And if our OL was actually healthy, it might be a decent unit.

But since you're going there...here are our rankings
QB Rating - 32nd
Passing Yards Per Game - 32nd
Completion percentage - 32nd
Passing TDs - 32nd
Fewest Sacks Allowed - 1st
Rushing Yards Per Carry - 1st

Kind of ironic how much blame you throw at the OL. Are Foles and Keenum blocking for Todd Gurley too? I also recognize how good Todd Gurley is. But the OL, when relatively healthy (i.e. with Reynolds at LG and Havenstein at RT), has actually given Gurley a little something to work with.

But yes, the OL is THE problem. Not the QBs that rank worst in the league.



Kaepernick managed to get the ball there in San Francisco.

As long as you apply fewest sacks to a line that makes QBs run for their lives every play with no consideration as to what the QB did to prevent that sack, I have nothing to say. Keep thinking we have a great line and that our QB play is not an affect of their play.

Hey everyone, jrry thinks we have a great line. I can't agree. Do we just keep our line for next season?

 

[jrry32]

As long as you apply fewest sacks to a line that makes QBs run for their lives every play with no consideration as to what the QB did to prevent that sack, I have nothing to say. Keep thinking we have a great line and that our QB play is not an affect of their play.

Hey everyone, jrry thinks we have a great line. I can't agree. Do we just keep our line for next season?

We could. But ideally, we'd replace Saffold so that Reynolds could slot back in as the 6th OL and upgrade on Barnes. Barnes isn't a true liability but he's a pretty mediocre.

I think we have a great OL? Kind of hard to convince anyone of that when I literally said the opposite on the first page of this thread. If you're going to lie, do a better job of it.

BTW, you dodged my question from earlier in this thread. WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION? You come in here and attack my solutions. What's your plan for next year? You say Kaepernick isn't good enough. Who are we getting that's better? What are we going to do at QB?

 

[RamzFanz]

Those aren't facts. Those are your opinions. You know the difference.

You know what wonderland is? It's the place where Nick Foles isn't to blame for his god awful QB play.

But I know...Nick Foles can't drop it in over the top. It's just not who he is. Which is why he's a crappy QB.

Stop avoiding that you are saying Austin is a great long ball receiver with no catches, for years. That the Rams' o-line is great and it's all the QBs fault even though they avoid sacks.

Rams suck. But they suck for REAL reasons. One could be Foles but that's hard to say when he's so damn good at avoiding sacks and the WRs drop his passes. ME? I say he's not good enough and Keenum might be in THIS system. In the end, QBs are the lessor of our issues. If you can't protect them and you won't catch their good passes, it matters not who they are.

 

[Mojo Ram]

And Kap couldn't throw to him if he was.

I disagree if we run the right type of offense. He did well in SF until the coaching staff and everyone else left. As you've pointed out the OLine has been suspect at best, but Foles is molasses in wintertime compared to Kap. Bringing in a mobile guy could be the answer...a stop gap that gives us a chance to overcome OLine growing pains. I think Fisher recognizes this and wants Keenum in there because he can move around a little.
Kap> Keenum.

 

[RamzFanz]

We could. But ideally, we'd replace Saffold so that Reynolds could slot back in as the 6th OL and upgrade on Barnes. Barnes isn't a true liability but he's a pretty mediocre.

I think we have a great OL? Kind of hard to convince anyone of that when I literally said the opposite on the first page of this thread. If you're going to lie, do a better job of it.

BTW, you dodged my question from earlier in this thread. WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION? You come in here and attack my solutions. What's your plan for next year? You say Kaepernick isn't good enough. Who are we getting that's better? What are we going to do at QB?

I don't attack your solutions. I claim you don't even grasp the problems. If Kappy is your solution, you don't grasp the problem.

Kappy is a horrible QB. Very sucky. He smells like ass and plays like ass.

What the Rams need is a solid o line and a WR that will catch a pass. That's it. It won't make their O great by itself but with Gurley it will. Solid o line springs Gurley for great things. Solid o line allows any of our QBs to make passes to our WR that actually catches passes. Win Win.

 

[jrry32]

Stop avoiding that you are saying Austin is a great long ball receiver with no catches, for years. That the Rams' o-line is great and it's all the QBs fault even though they avoid sacks.

Never said any of that in this thread. Stop lying. You undermine your credibility when you make things up. Especially on the internet when the people reading this thread can see exactly what I've said.

Rams suck. But they suck for REAL reasons. One could be Foles but that's hard to say when he's so damn good at avoiding sacks and the WRs drop his passes. ME? I say he's not good enough and Keenum might be in THIS system. In the end, QBs are the lessor of our issues. If you can't protect them and you won't catch their good passes, it matters not who they are.

LOL

Keenum has the exact same sack rate as Foles. We're #2 in the NFL in sack rate behind Oakland. Source: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Man, we must have Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger back there in order for both our QBs to be so amazing at avoiding sacks.

And the WR drop his passes? We're #13 in the NFL in drop%:
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-receiver-drops-percentage/2015/

We're dropping 0.4% above the average team.

Keenum might be good enough in this system? He has a QB Rating below 70 in 2 starts and hasn't broken 150 passing yards in either start. What exactly has he shown? Certainly not more than Kaepernick has shown in his career.

In the end, the QBs ARE OUR GREATEST ISSUE. I don't know how anyone can come to a different conclusion. When you have the league's WORST production at the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION, that is your biggest issue.

It absolutely matters who they are. Because suddenly that protection looks a whole lot better and there are a whole lot more completions when you go from the league's worst to the league's best...or even just the league's worst to average.

You're in denial when it comes to the Rams QBs. It's everybody else's fault but theirs. Foles throws the ball 5 yards over the head of an open WR? The OL didn't protect him well enough. Foles throws late into coverage? The WR should have caught it anyways.

It's like you think the QB is untouchable. Nothing he does can be wrong. I don't know how you can watch this team and come to the conclusion that it's the rest of the offense that is the problem. I don't even know what I can say to that. It's simply not a stance that I can fathom or understand.

 

[Mojo Ram]

In the end, QBs are the lessor of our issues. If you can't protect them and you won't catch their good passes, it matters not who they are.

I love your eternal optimism but i wholeheartedly disagree. QB play has been the most glaring single position issue here since.....Bulger with Martz. Of course there are many teams with that same issue. That OLine in Seattle isn't very good but having Wilson behind center makes all the difference in the world for them. They're pushing for another title run and he's carrying that entire team on his back right now. Foles, Bradford, Keenum, Davis, Hill...not good enough.

 

[Zaphod]

The same QBs are more flawed as passers without the game-breaking speed and running ability.

At least the Rams would be trying with Kaepernick rather than throwing in the towel by sticking with the worst QBs in the NFL.

But I agree with @-X- Fisher would need to bring in an offensive mind willing to incorporate the read option or he'd need to be willing to let Boras do it. Or in the best case scenario, we bring in Adam Gase and Mike McCoy...

Do you really think we would be able to successfully implement a zone read system with Kaepernick? To me it does seem logical, but really the main thing that concerns me is how dependant we'll be on developing our plays from the backend with Gurley, Austin and Kaepernick.

I think we'll always have the occasional bombs on play action, but ideally we need to be able to burn teams with quick strikes when they get caught commiting to our backfield.

I think effective rollouts would be extremely complimentary to our offense though. That's just a natural progression what we already do. Of course, he's always had a nice touch on screens. Overall, I've been intrigued with the idea ever since he fell out of favor with the 49ers.