Question I would ask Snead...

[jacktheripper85]

considering the Rams track record in drafting offensive players (specifically lineman) vs. defensive players would it make more sense that when we make big trades using high picks that we do it for proven offensive lineman and use our 2-4 round picks on defensive players rather than OL picks?

I mean...based on the track record of the offensive players we have drafted I think our scouting team has a better eye for defensive talent vs. offensive.

Just a thought.

 

[Loyal]

All I gotta ask, Les is....Are those brass?

 

[Jacobarch]

considering the Rams track record in drafting offensive players (specifically lineman) vs. defensive players would it make more sense that when we make big trades using high picks that we do it for proven offensive lineman and use our 2-4 round picks on defensive players rather than OL picks?

I mean...based on the track record of the offensive players we have drafted I think our scouting team has a better eye for defensive talent vs. offensive.

Just a thought.

Henderson, kupp, Goff, Everett
They have an ok track record. It's too early to tell w our oline as they should get better as the season progresses

 

[Mackeyser]

Everett is grossly underutilized in part because we have an amazing WR trio.

Kupp is one of the best, most complete WRs in the league.

Goff is a young, elite QB struggling behind a devastatingly bad OL.

Henderson is a home run hitter who will shine once he's given a chance.

 

[jacktheripper85]

Everett is grossly underutilized in part because we have an amazing WR trio.

Kupp is one of the best, most complete WRs in the league.

Goff is a young, elite QB struggling behind a devastatingly bad OL.

Henderson is a home run hitter who will shine once he's given a chance.

 

[jacktheripper85]

Everett is grossly underutilized in part because we have an amazing WR trio.

Kupp is one of the best, most complete WRs in the league.

Goff is a young, elite QB struggling behind a devastatingly bad OL.

Henderson is a home run hitter who will shine once he's given a chance.

I know but in regards to my original post I don’t see any lineman on that list.

 

[Mackeyser]

Every FO has blind spots.

This FO can draft just about every position except OL.

Which is fine. If that means they have to develop cheap LBs, DL and Secondary and go FA for the OL, then fine.

Do that. Play to your strengths.

Not even the great Ozzie Newsome was great at picking every position. He was pretty mediocre to terrible at evaluating QBs as was his staff.

What I like about Les Snead is that he's actively using all of the tools at his disposal.

TRUST when I say that there is no dogma to improving this team.

Just means that maybe we can put less stock in our team developing OL talent with this regime...

 

[Rams43]

The Snead/McVay OL’s of ‘17 and ‘18 were pretty damned good. FA’s brought in count, too, when assembling an OL.

This year with all 5 simultaneously regressing? Didn’t see that coming. And nobody else did, either.

They’ll get the OL fixed, no doubt, but I don’t think it can be done mid year. Best we can hope for is some gelling at C and LG and some settling down at the other 3 vet positions.

 

[OldSchool]

I know but in regards to my original post I don’t see any lineman on that list.

It’s too early to tell on his OLine pI is tbh. The early Snead years are hard to tell who made the call Between him and Fisher. Plus it was a different OLine coach. Who knows what Kromer and McVay could have made of those players or if the even would have wanted them.
IMO Snead is doing good, no need to worry.

 

[jacktheripper85]

It’s too early to tell on his OLine pI is tbh. The early Snead years are hard to tell who made the call Between him and Fisher. Plus it was a different OLine coach. Who knows what Kromer and McVay could have made of those players or if the even would have wanted them.
IMO Snead is doing good, no need to worry.

Not worried as they have earned my trust but man that game against the Niners was hard to stomach and a real wake up call for the whole offense.

The good news is that my dormant hatred for the Niners is back in full force now that they don’t seem to be so shitty anymore.

 

[OldSchool]

Not worried as they have earned my trust but man that game against the Niners was hard to stomach and a real wake up call for the whole offense.

The good news is that my dormant hatred for the Niners is back in full force now that they don’t seem to be so shitty anymore.

Offense will be fine, that game was an outlier versus a good front. The defense is what needed help. The line needs health and snaps together.

 

[bubbaramfan]

More snaps

 

[oldnotdead]

I think you don't understand just how difficult it is to project o-line in terms of draft. The bust rate has historically been among the highest in terms of a unit as a whole. The reason is that the NFL is a huge step up in terms of what is expected of them. It is exceedingly technique heavy and it takes a few years for a lineman to develop. That is why historically most GM's and Coaches would take their o-line in rounds 2-5. It's also why since they have to be developed Snead among other GM's will draft for traits and athleticism when it comes to o-line. This is why he drafts undersized OT's to play OG at this level. The generally have a bigger play radius than college OGs and usually better feet, i.e. movement skills. But that means at least 2 - 3 years to develop them. This is why I shake my head at those who expect instant gratification from first time starters at positions they have never played. There is a huge learning curve for these guys and add in Kromer's demand they all learn multiple positions and it simply increases that learning curve. That is where Kromer and I disagree. It's one thing to cross train a vet OG to play center and quite another to take a college OT and cross train him on all five positions in one season (Demby). So that is why I say the criticism of him is largely undeserved. Unlike Blythe who makes the same mistakes but with him there is no excuse except a lack of talent. At this stage of Blythe's career he should be better than he is.

Edwards looked better in TC because he spent the vast majority of his time playing OT (both sides) with very little time at OG. I hope he plays well and he should because he has a size and play radius advantage over Demby.

When I lived in San Diego, I knew their starting LG Kris Dielman. He was drafted in 2003 and had never played on the o-line. He was converted from a DT to OG, a position he had never played. For the first 2+ years he was horrible. He was a complete turnstile or pancake. It was from him I learned how hard it was to learn a position he had never played and do it at the NFL level. He had talent but it was an absolute struggle. The Chargers stuck with him and in his third or fourth year it finally started to click and come together for him. He was a 4 Pro-Bowler & 2 time second team all pro in his 8 year career.

The Rams obviously see something in Demby that fans don't. He wasn't the train wreck everyone was predicting in his relief of Noteboom. Don't be so quick to write him off. Guys who can do what the Rams have expected of him are rare. Not every relief o-lineman can play all 5 positions. Most only are asked to play one and be able to backup at another. Once he gains experience and the game begins to slow down for him, he could very well surprise a whole lot of people. With o-line you need to be patient and see how it goes.

 

[Ramrocket]

I think you don't understand just how difficult it is to project o-line in terms of draft. The bust rate has historically been among the highest in terms of a unit as a whole. The reason is that the NFL is a huge step up in terms of what is expected of them. It is exceedingly technique heavy and it takes a few years for a lineman to develop. That is why historically most GM's and Coaches would take their o-line in rounds 2-5. It's also why since they have to be developed Snead among other GM's will draft for traits and athleticism when it comes to o-line. This is why he drafts undersized OT's to play OG at this level. The generally have a bigger play radius than college OGs and usually better feet, i.e. movement skills. But that means at least 2 - 3 years to develop them. This is why I shake my head at those who expect instant gratification from first time starters at positions they have never played. There is a huge learning curve for these guys and add in Kromer's demand they all learn multiple positions and it simply increases that learning curve. That is where Kromer and I disagree. It's one thing to cross train a vet OG to play center and quite another to take a college OT and cross train him on all five positions in one season (Demby). So that is why I say the criticism of him is largely undeserved. Unlike Blythe who makes the same mistakes but with him there is no excuse except a lack of talent. At this stage of Blythe's career he should be better than he is.

Edwards looked better in TC because he spent the vast majority of his time playing OT (both sides) with very little time at OG. I hope he plays well and he should because he has a size and play radius advantage over Demby.

When I lived in San Diego, I knew their starting LG Kris Dielman. He was drafted in 2003 and had never played on the o-line. He was converted from a DT to OG, a position he had never played. For the first 2+ years he was horrible. He was a complete turnstile or pancake. It was from him I learned how hard it was to learn a position he had never played and do it at the NFL level. He had talent but it was an absolute struggle. The Chargers stuck with him and in his third or fourth year it finally started to click and come together for him. He was a 4 Pro-Bowler & 2 time second team all pro in his 8 year career.

The Rams obviously see something in Demby that fans don't. He wasn't the train wreck everyone was predicting in his relief of Noteboom. Don't be so quick to write him off. Guys who can do what the Rams have expected of him are rare. Not every relief o-lineman can play all 5 positions. Most only are asked to play one and be able to backup at another. Once he gains experience and the game begins to slow down for him, he could very well surprise a whole lot of people. With o-line you need to be patient and see how it goes.

Nice post. I don't share your views on Demby's performance so far. I think he has been very poor but as you say, a lot has been asked of him and in that respect, you can't blame him. It's not that he is trying to perform poorly. We as fans must take that into account.

I do hope that what the coaching staff see in him has a chance to to come to fruition and he does develop over time.

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

 

[1maGoh]

View attachment 31379

Sadly I can't give you a haha and a thread winner.

 

[dieterbrock]

I know but in regards to my original post I don’t see any lineman on that list.

Noteboom and Havenstein would have been on that list easily before the season started if we’re being honest.
Not sure why, or how both players seemed to regress so much this year. that’s the real issue

 

[Ramit]

I think you don't understand just how difficult it is to project o-line in terms of draft. The bust rate has historically been among the highest in terms of a unit as a whole. The reason is that the NFL is a huge step up in terms of what is expected of them. It is exceedingly technique heavy and it takes a few years for a lineman to develop. That is why historically most GM's and Coaches would take their o-line in rounds 2-5. It's also why since they have to be developed Snead among other GM's will draft for traits and athleticism when it comes to o-line. This is why he drafts undersized OT's to play OG at this level. The generally have a bigger play radius than college OGs and usually better feet, i.e. movement skills. But that means at least 2 - 3 years to develop them. This is why I shake my head at those who expect instant gratification from first time starters at positions they have never played. There is a huge learning curve for these guys and add in Kromer's demand they all learn multiple positions and it simply increases that learning curve. That is where Kromer and I disagree. It's one thing to cross train a vet OG to play center and quite another to take a college OT and cross train him on all five positions in one season (Demby). So that is why I say the criticism of him is largely undeserved. Unlike Blythe who makes the same mistakes but with him there is no excuse except a lack of talent. At this stage of Blythe's career he should be better than he is.

Edwards looked better in TC because he spent the vast majority of his time playing OT (both sides) with very little time at OG. I hope he plays well and he should because he has a size and play radius advantage over Demby.

When I lived in San Diego, I knew their starting LG Kris Dielman. He was drafted in 2003 and had never played on the o-line. He was converted from a DT to OG, a position he had never played. For the first 2+ years he was horrible. He was a complete turnstile or pancake. It was from him I learned how hard it was to learn a position he had never played and do it at the NFL level. He had talent but it was an absolute struggle. The Chargers stuck with him and in his third or fourth year it finally started to click and come together for him. He was a 4 Pro-Bowler & 2 time second team all pro in his 8 year career.

The Rams obviously see something in Demby that fans don't. He wasn't the train wreck everyone was predicting in his relief of Noteboom. Don't be so quick to write him off. Guys who can do what the Rams have expected of him are rare. Not every relief o-lineman can play all 5 positions. Most only are asked to play one and be able to backup at another. Once he gains experience and the game begins to slow down for him, he could very well surprise a whole lot of people. With o-line you need to be patient and see how it goes.

I love these kinds of informed, well thought out posts. It promotes a spirit of forgiveness and understanding cheers brother.

 

[jacktheripper85]

I think you don't understand just how difficult it is to project o-line in terms of draft. The bust rate has historically been among the highest in terms of a unit as a whole. The reason is that the NFL is a huge step up in terms of what is expected of them. It is exceedingly technique heavy and it takes a few years for a lineman to develop. That is why historically most GM's and Coaches would take their o-line in rounds 2-5. It's also why since they have to be developed Snead among other GM's will draft for traits and athleticism when it comes to o-line. This is why he drafts undersized OT's to play OG at this level. The generally have a bigger play radius than college OGs and usually better feet, i.e. movement skills. But that means at least 2 - 3 years to develop them. This is why I shake my head at those who expect instant gratification from first time starters at positions they have never played. There is a huge learning curve for these guys and add in Kromer's demand they all learn multiple positions and it simply increases that learning curve. That is where Kromer and I disagree. It's one thing to cross train a vet OG to play center and quite another to take a college OT and cross train him on all five positions in one season (Demby). So that is why I say the criticism of him is largely undeserved. Unlike Blythe who makes the same mistakes but with him there is no excuse except a lack of talent. At this stage of Blythe's career he should be better than he is.

Edwards looked better in TC because he spent the vast majority of his time playing OT (both sides) with very little time at OG. I hope he plays well and he should because he has a size and play radius advantage over Demby.

When I lived in San Diego, I knew their starting LG Kris Dielman. He was drafted in 2003 and had never played on the o-line. He was converted from a DT to OG, a position he had never played. For the first 2+ years he was horrible. He was a complete turnstile or pancake. It was from him I learned how hard it was to learn a position he had never played and do it at the NFL level. He had talent but it was an absolute struggle. The Chargers stuck with him and in his third or fourth year it finally started to click and come together for him. He was a 4 Pro-Bowler & 2 time second team all pro in his 8 year career.

The Rams obviously see something in Demby that fans don't. He wasn't the train wreck everyone was predicting in his relief of Noteboom. Don't be so quick to write him off. Guys who can do what the Rams have expected of him are rare. Not every relief o-lineman can play all 5 positions. Most only are asked to play one and be able to backup at another. Once he gains experience and the game begins to slow down for him, he could very well surprise a whole lot of people. With o-line you need to be patient and see how it goes.

Totally get what you are saying, however.....Rams lineman drafted since Saffold:

Rokevious Watkins
Barrett Jones
Demetrius Rhaney
Mitchell Van Dyk
Greg Robinson
Cody Wichman
Andrew Donnal
James Brown
Rob Havenstein
Jamil Demby
Brian Allen
Joe Noteboom
Dave Edwards
Bobby Evans

So while I understand it takes time to develop lineman pretty much all of these picks up to our last draft have been busts. I love Snead and how he operates but picking offensive lineman doesn’t seem to be his strong suit. Like I said in my original post-if I were him I would build the line through FA and trades and use my draft picks on defense.

 

[fearsomefour]

Everett is grossly underutilized in part because we have an amazing WR trio.

Kupp is one of the best, most complete WRs in the league.

Goff is a young, elite QB struggling behind a devastatingly bad OL.

Henderson is a home run hitter who will shine once he's given a chance.

He doesn’t fumble a simple pitch at his own 20 (or whatever) I’m a close hard fought game.....