Quarterbacks

[-X-]

Bradford's first 13 starts: 60% completion %, 6.1 YPA, 17 TDs to 12 Ints, and a QB Rating between 79 and 80. Bradford was a rookie #1 overall pick that didn't have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins to throw to in the majority of his starts.

And Bradford looked FAAAAAAAAR better than Keenum.

So?

Keenum's first 13 starts: 56% completion %, 6.8 YPA, 14 TDs to 9 ints, and a QB Rating between 79 and 80. Being a #1 overall doesn't mean anything anymore. Hasn't for a long long time. I'll give you his receiving targets, but Bradford had Clayton and Alexander and Amendola, so he wasn't starved for receivers. And if he was a #1 vs a UDFA, he should have been MILES better than Keenum over their first 13 starts. Not to mention Bradford played in a garbage division his first 13 games and had Steven Jackson. You can say Keenum's a career backup and that he's garbage or he'll never amount to anything, but the truth of the matter is, you don't know that yet.

All that said, CLEARLY they need to aim higher for a signal caller. But unless or until Keenum tanks in a game like Foles has, we may not be in bad shape.

 

[-X-]

How long are we supposed to wait until we determine Keenum isn't the guy? Another mediocre season due to poor offensive and QB play?

How long did we wait on Bradford? Not a single winning season the whole 5 years he was here.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that 2 games isn't a big enough sample size .............. for me.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Where is Case's 3 year $10 million contract?

So this is the new definition of a good player? We signed Foles before seeing him take one snap with the team... the Bradford contract... teams make financial mistakes... it isn't proof a player is good.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Which is why I took the time to watch him and evaluate his game.

So, he's not good enough to supplant Alex Smith?

 

[Dieter the Brock]

@jrry32
Keenum had great college numbers at Houston (yes Klingler did too) but they are NCAA records none the less -- and it was division 1

Wentz is a division 2 QB - and I admit he looks like a nice prospect but to think he can start in 2016 and lead us to a better record than what we have now is not realistic in my opinion.

And don't get me wrong Jrry I dig your posts I just don't think it's cool to discredit Keenum - Nick Folds yes, Keenum no

Edit : thought ND state was division one - my bad

 

[jrry32]

How long did we wait on Bradford? Not a single winning season the whole 5 years he was here.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that 2 games isn't a big enough sample size .............. for me.

And look where we're at now. But Bradford was a 1st overall pick with a 6 year $78 million contract. We were stuck. And he at least showed flashes of being a good QB.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that 13 games is more than enough for me. Case Keenum isn't a starting QB. If you want to waste another season on that guy, go for it. I want to win.

So this is the new definition of a good player? We signed Foles before seeing him take one snap with the team... the Bradford contract... teams make financial mistakes... it isn't proof a player is good.

Strawman argument. Doesn't make you a good player. But it does mean that the Chiefs valued Daniel pretty highly as a backup QB. So it's kind of ridiculous to claim that Keenum is better than Daniel because Keenum isn't backing up Alex Smith. As if Keenum wouldn't be backing up Alex Smith if he and Daniel changed teams.

Daniel wasn't a financial mistake either. So that's not a particularly strong point.

So, he's not good enough to supplant Alex Smith?

Yes. He's not good enough to supplant a QB that has 57 TDs to 17 Ints and a 92.9 QB Rating over the past 3 years. Do you think Alex Smith wouldn't be starting for the Rams too?

But since you asked, I think it's worth mentioning that a number of Chiefs fans were calling for Chase Daniel to start early on this year over Alex Smith. That's how highly they think of him.

So?

Keenum's first 13 starts: 56% completion %, 6.8 YPA, 14 TDs to 9 ints, and a QB Rating between 79 and 80. Being a #1 overall doesn't mean anything anymore. Hasn't for a long long time. I'll give you his receiving targets, but Bradford had Clayton and Alexander and Amendola, so he wasn't starved for receivers. And if he was a #1 vs a UDFA, he should have been MILES better than Keenum over their first 13 starts. Not to mention Bradford played in a garbage division his first 13 games and had Steven Jackson. You can say Keenum's a career backup and that he's garbage or he'll never amount to anything, but the truth of the matter is, you don't know that yet.

All that said, CLEARLY they need to aim higher for a signal caller. But unless or until Keenum tanks in a game like Foles has, we may not be in bad shape.

Keenum had Arian Foster.

And where did waiting for Bradford leave us? Are you trying to tell me that we should wait on Keenum because he was only slightly lesser statistically than a QB we just moved on from?

Not to mention the fact that Bradford's first 13 starts came as a rookie. Keenum's were spread out between his second, third, and fourth years in the NFL. That's a HUGE difference.

That's like comparing Aaron Rodgers's first 16 starts to Peyton Manning's and try to claim it's a fair comparison.

 

[jrry32]

@jrry32
Keenum had great college numbers at Houston (yes Klingler did too) but they are NCAA records none the less -- and it was division 1

Wentz is a division 2 QB - and I admit he looks like a nice prospect but to think he can start in 2016 and lead us to a better record than what we have now is not realistic in my opinion.

And don't get me wrong Jrry I dig your posts I just don't think it's cool to discredit Keenum - Nick Folds yes, Keenum no

Wentz is a FCS QB. Not Division II.(not that it particularly matters)

Do I think he can start in 2016 and lead us to a better record we have now? Likely yes. Do I think that's a smart move for this team? No. I think Wentz would benefit from sitting as a rookie.

But if you're arguing that because he's a FCS QB, he can't come in, start, and help us win as a rookie...check out Joe Flacco.

I'm not discrediting Keenum. I'm giving him credit for exactly what he is. Just like I did with Kellen Clemens and Austin Davis. He's a backup QB. We don't need him for that role next year.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Strawman argument. Doesn't make you a good player. But it does mean that the Chiefs valued Daniel pretty highly as a backup QB. So it's kind of ridiculous to claim that Keenum is better than Daniel because Keenum isn't backing up Alex Smith. As if Keenum wouldn't be backing up Alex Smith if he and Daniel changed teams.

Daniel wasn't a financial mistake either. So that's not a particularly strong point.

Well, you threw the money angle out there so the suggestion was made... if they pay a player more than another player, the inference is one is better than the other (the higher paid one). Clearly, that is a false assumption.

ut since you asked, I think it's worth mentioning that a number of Chiefs fans were calling for Chase Daniel to start early on this year over Alex Smith. That's how highly they think of him.

Another off-the-mark inference.. "if the fans want him, he must be good".

First it's how much a player gets paid, now it's fan appeal?

It's clear (to me anyway) that you covet Daniel. You're attempting to make cases based on money and fans, but his career numbers don't tell us much of anything.. so, I'm not sure why the infatuation.

If the Rams were to obtain his services, I'd be concerned because, outside of your tape analysis, there isn't much to go on.

 

[den-the-coach]

I'm not discrediting Keenum. I'm giving him credit for exactly what he is. Just like I did with Kellen Clemens and Austin Davis. He's a backup QB. We don't need him for that role next year.

I concur and IMO in the Seattle game Keenum will be exposed again like he was against the Ravens. However, if Keenum plays well against the Seahawks and it's a close game or they even win and add another victory the following week against the 49ers (very winnable game) there is no way Fisher lets Keenum go.

However, if it's business as usual against the Seahawks 27-10 and he's okay against the 49ers, IMO, Fisher and Snead will go in another direction once again in 2016.

 

[jrry32]

Well, you threw the money angle out there so the suggestion was made... if they pay a player more than another player, the inference is one is better than the other (the higher paid one). Clearly, that is a false assumption.

No, the suggestion wasn't made. He claimed the Keenum is better than Daniel because Daniel is backing up Alex Smith. The money angle is pointing out that KC valued Daniel highly as a backup and paid for him. They didn't sign him for the league minimum. They paid quite a bit of money to take him off the market. Not Daniel's fault he's behind Alex Smith instead of Nick Foles. That doesn't make Keenum a better player.

If you're not attempting to argue that Keenum is better because he's not backing up Alex Smith then move on. Because you're not defending the point I was disagreeing with. Instead, you took one sentence out of context and are trying to argue against that.

Another off-the-mark inference.. "if the fans want him, he must be good".

First it's how much a player gets paid, now it's fan appeal?

It's clear (to me anyway) that you covet Daniel. You're attempting to make cases based on money and fans, but his career numbers don't tell us much of anything.. so, I'm not sure why the infatuation.

If the Rams were to obtain his services, I'd be concerned because, outside of your tape analysis, there isn't much to go on.

The fans have seen him for years. They watch him. You don't. Yes, I value their opinion more than yours. Yep, I think fan appeal is a pretty big thing actually. When a team has a solid starting QB like Alex Smith and their fans think highly enough to give his backup a chance, I value that opinion.

It would be one thing if they were starting a terrible QB and were calling for the backup. It's another thing when they have a legitimate starter and think the backup could offer more. For example, I still remember now all of the Bengals fans clamoring for Evan Mathis to play years ago instead of Nate Livings. Mathis leaves the Bengals, is signed by the Eagles, and becomes an All Pro.

The Chiefs fans weren't asking for Daniel to start over Keith Null. They wanted to start him over a proven QB. Enough said.

And based on what I've seen of Daniel, I don't know that I'd go that far...but I do think they were right in thinking he's a starting caliber QB and one of the league's best QBs stuck in the backup role.

 

[Rmfnlt]

No, the suggestion wasn't made. He claimed the Keenum is better than Daniel because Daniel is backing up Alex Smith. The money angle is pointing out that KC valued Daniel highly as a backup and paid for him. They didn't sign him for the league minimum. They paid quite a bit of money to take him off the market. Not Daniel's fault he's behind Alex Smith instead of Nick Foles. That doesn't make Keenum a better player.

If you're not attempting to argue that Keenum is better because he's not backing up Alex Smith then move on. Because you're not defending the point I was disagreeing with. Instead, you took one sentence out of context and are trying to argue against that.



The fans have seen him for years. They watch him. You don't. Yes, I value their opinion more than yours. Yep, I think fan appeal is a pretty big thing actually. When a team has a solid starting QB like Alex Smith and their fans think highly enough to give his backup a chance, I value that opinion.

It would be one thing if they were starting a terrible QB and were calling for the backup. It's another thing when they have a legitimate starter and think the backup could offer more. For example, I still remember now all of the Bengals fans clamoring for Evan Mathis to play years ago instead of Nate Livings. Mathis leaves the Bengals, is signed by the Eagles, and becomes an All Pro.

The Chiefs fans weren't asking for Daniel to start over Keith Null. They wanted to start him over a proven QB. Enough said.

And based on what I've seen of Daniel, I don't know that I'd go that far...but I do think they were right in thinking he's a starting caliber QB and one of the league's best QBs stuck in the backup role.

No mas...

 

[dieterbrock]

Another off-the-mark inference.. "if the fans want him, he must be good".

.

What does the old adage say? The most popular guy on the team is the back up QB....

 

[-X-]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that 13 games is more than enough for me. Case Keenum isn't a starting QB. If you want to waste another season on that guy, go for it. I want to win.

He apparently is a starting QB now. And it's yet to be determined if it's a "waste" since he's currently 1-1 and has 2 more games to play. If he falls flat on his face in these last two games then maybe I'll re-evaluate it after the season is over. But yeah, I'll go ahead and let it play out. Since that's pretty much what's gonna happen anyway.

 

[DR RAM]

I'm really not sure how one side goes to haters, and the other goes to lovers. I think most of us, are in the, he's better than Foles category. How is going to finish the season, and is he a viable guy to return, as a capable backup? I think the next couple games will help determine the last thing.

I don't think anybody is snowed over here, but as a guy that was calling for him, after Foles second start, I still have my mind open. I don't think he's a bum, or a savior. I want to see how he will do, against a good team, with having the luxury, of being able to prepare as the starter, a few games.

I have high standards for our next QB. Some of you are convinced he's not good enough, and some of us are not convinced, with the small amount of data that we have. I haven't seen that fatal flaw, yet. It won't take me long to find it, if it's there, but I'm open to him coming back, if he doesn't show me that in the next couple games, even if he comes back as one of our backups.

Maybe, we can see what happens???

 

[jrry32]

He apparently is a starting QB now. And it's yet to be determined if it's a "waste" since he's currently 1-1 and has 2 more games to play. If he falls flat on his face in these last two games then maybe I'll re-evaluate it after the season is over. But yeah, I'll go ahead and let it play out. Since that's pretty much what's gonna happen anyway.

Technically, he's started 3 games. The Rams are 2-1. But I'd say neither of the first two starts were quality performances.

It's going to play out. I just don't see anything changing for me. I'd rather see Mannion, personally. But it's too late for that.

I haven't seen that fatal flaw, yet.

I think I saw it. Don't like his instincts when blitzed/pressured.

 

[-X-]

Technically, he's started 3 games. The Rams are 2-1. But I'd say neither of the first two starts were quality performances.

True. But we haven't really had very many quality offensive performances in the past 7 years, so...

 

[jrry32]

True. But we haven't really had very many quality offensive performances in the past 7 years, so...

Also true...which is why I'm so adamant about trying to fix this QB position. For those knocking the Chase Daniel idea, it's not like that sort of move hasn't worked in the past. Look at the Bills and Tyrod Taylor. He was the backup in Baltimore prior to signing with them this year. He's had a very strong year for them. Can I guarantee the same happens with Chase? No. But I can say that I watched the games and I like the skill-set he offers. The things I saw translate to success in this league. I think he offers a better skill-set than Case. Which is why I'd prefer to have him over Case along with a rookie QB next year (and Mannion).

 

[CodeMonkey]

Watching Brees last night, he needs a change. Somewhere with a solid enough D and RB that he doesn't have to carry the team. We could win now with him and still develop a guy like mannion or 2016 pick.

Make it happen, Les!

 

[jrry32]

Watching Brees last night, he needs a change. Somewhere with a solid enough D and RB that he doesn't have to carry the team. We could win now with him and still develop a guy like mannion or 2016 pick.

Make it happen, Les!

Problem is that New Orleans has to want to trade/cut him. And we have to work a fair price out for him.

 

[Ballhawk]

Unless they bring in a veteran Keenum or Foles is our QB next year, as Mannion is learning nothing sitting on the bench and a draft pick will be in the same boat as Mannion unless they want to waste another season playing a developmental QB.