QB Shane Carden, E Caolina, and Florida on at noon

[duckhunter]

Since we are on QB watch, need to view Carden today. Plus, Florida has four or so big uglies coming out that could get mid to late consideration.

 

[jrry32]

Florida has gobs of defensive talent. This will be a great test for Carden and WR Justin Hardy.

 

[duckhunter]

You betcha. There are hidden gems on that Florida team.

 

[den-the-coach]

Florida has gobs of defensive talent. This will be a great test for Carden and WR Justin Hardy.

Should be a great test for Carden I like him later and as of right now unless the Rams can trade up for one of the two my hope next year would be Petty first and than Carden secondary.

 

[DR RAM]

So, what do you think of him now?

 

[Win1-4Ned]

I haven't seen a lot of any of the qb's outside of Winston, and none of Petty, but I think I like Grayson the most outside of Winston. Carden reminds me of Davis, in this game, anyway.

 

[DR RAM]

I haven't seen a lot of any of the qb's outside of Winston, and none of Petty, but I think I like Grayson the most outside of Winston. Carden reminds me of Davis, in this game, anyway.

I know one thing for a fact, everyone see's QB's differently, we all, including coaches and GM's, see attributes that we like, think are more important than others, etc, and that why QB's are such a polarizing subject. I don't like Carden as a prospect.

 

[den-the-coach]

I know one thing for a fact, everyone see's QB's differently, we all, including coaches and GM's, see attributes that we like, think are more important than others, etc, and that why QB's are such a polarizing subject. I don't like Carden as a prospect.

It is only one game, but he took some sacks when I thought he could throw the ball away. Quite frankly if the Rams go the draft route I doubt they wait on Grayson or even Carden, they most likely go Petty if his back checks out, just not sure if Petty is a 2nd round pick or 3rd round, but I am sure there will be many mock drafts that will showcase where he goes.

 

[DR RAM]

It is only one game, but he took some sacks when I thought he could throw the ball away. Quite frankly if the Rams go the draft route I doubt that wait on Grayson or even Carden, they most likely go Petty if his back checks out, just not sure if Petty is a 2nd round pick or 3rd round, but I am sure there will be many mock drafts that will showcase where he goes.

I agree with you here, I don't think either of those are upgrades, and I don't see upside, but I can see Petty being an NFL player. Why waist a draft pick, even if it's a lower one, unless the guy you take has a high upside.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Wouldn't mind taking Fowler Jr and Hargreaves III in the next 2 drafts.

 

[Win1-4Ned]

I know one thing for a fact, everyone see's QB's differently, we all, including coaches and GM's, see attributes that we like, think are more important than others, etc, and that why QB's are such a polarizing subject. I don't like Carden as a prospect.

The thing I'm struck by in games like the Florida/ECU game are that there are so many phenomenal athletes, but such a void of traditional skill at the QB position across college football. I think the NFL will have to adapt. Other than Luck, nearly all the best NFL qbs are closer to retirement than their rookie season. I think that is where Seattle is ahead of the curve.

 

[den-the-coach]

I agree with you here, I don't think either of those are upgrades, and I don't see upside, but I can see Petty being an NFL player. Why waist a draft pick, even if it's a lower one, unless the guy you take has a high upside.

As usual the Doctor has prescribed the right medicine for the St. Louis Rams. Unfortunately with Brain Schottemheimer as offensive coordinator, we'll need more than a spoon full of sugar to help the medicine go down.

 

[DR RAM]

The thing I'm struck by in games like the Florida/ECU game are that there are so many phenomenal athletes, but such a void of traditional skill at the QB position across college football. I think the NFL will have to adapt. Other than Luck, nearly all the best NFL qbs are closer to retirement than their rookie season. I think that is where Seattle is ahead of the curve.

Good point.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Should be a great test for Carden I like him later and as of right now unless the Rams can trade up for one of the two my hope next year would be Petty first and than Carden secondary.

I recall not too long ago that Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert were taken in the first half of the first round. It seems that if a college QB has ANY good attributes teams move on them. I hope that changes and teams have learned their lesson but I doubt it.

 

[den-the-coach]

I recall not too long ago that Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert were taken in the first half of the first round. It seems that if a college QB has ANY good attributes teams move on them. I hope that changes and teams have learned their lesson but I doubt it.

I concur never good when a team reaches and forces a pick especially at QB. Going forward they would be better off acquiring somebody if they can that has some experience.

 

[jrry32]

I agree with you here, I don't think either of those are upgrades, and I don't see upside, but I can see Petty being an NFL player. Why waist a draft pick, even if it's a lower one, unless the guy you take has a high upside.

But how do you know who has the huge upside? Seems to me that a lot of the best guys at QB taken(or not taken) outside the first round weren't considered huge upside picks.

 

[Ramhusker]

Thank you Gators! You just wrapped up 1st place for me in one of the college football bowl sheets contests I entered. A couple of extra Benjamins for the weekend!!!!

 

[DR RAM]

But how do you know who has the huge upside? Seems to me that a lot of the best guys at QB taken(or not taken) outside the first round weren't considered huge upside picks.

How do I know? I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass, it's very hard to tell, but like I've said numerous times, it's more of what attributes do you love, because that is what scouts and GM's fall in love with. Some things thay consider workable, some things they don't. For instance, Tebow was off a lot of guys boards, because of his horrid release, although he had so many things that most would consider being "other" great attributes, like being a proven winner, and incredible leader, as well as having a very good height/strength/speed ratio. I didn't think Tebow would make it, and that was by what I saw of him, and projecting him to the NFL. I did, however, love a lot of things about him. I wish he would have tried to play h-Back or something, because he IS a football player, just not a QB.

Now, let's take Brady. Skinny ass kid, with a pretty good arm, had a hard time getting on the field, but he had a thirst for the game, was super competitive, played big boy football, at a high level. He has ideal height, and was worth taking a chance on. He wasn't considered a high pick, I didn't see him as a high pick, nobody did. Believe me, everybody is looking for the next Brady. This is common knowledge.

I watched Rodgers play a lot of football in college at Cal, and i couldn't believe how many teams passed on him. I was literally screaming at the TV, "You guys are idiots!"

How do I know, I don't for sure, it's just my opinion, and if it's me, I'd go for the kind of kid out of Ohio St., who IMO, has a huge upside with all the tools to go with it. Almost every tool, but a small sample size. A very quality sample size, but a small one. Is he ready? No. Is he worth ta draft pick and trying to develop him, hell yes.

If I see guys improve, and rarely make the same mistake twice, and they have other attributes that I like, I think that they have the ability to learn and improve. If I see guys with a fatal flaw, or can't learn from mistakes, then I pass. Thing is, I don't know these kids personally, or enough to make that call, unless i see, or read things about them that show me what they have in their hearts, their love for the game, and wanting to be the best. That is the thing that can elevate guys like Brady, etc.

There are an infinite amount of other things to consider, such as team fit, etc. It's just my opinion, but I base it on watching them play, and reading reports about them, etc. If I know nothing about a guy, I don't comment on him. Guys like Russel Wilson, and Doug Flutie are the exception, not the rule, but i don't count guys out like that, because of how short they are. Wilson and Flutie both passed my eyeball test. All things being equal, I'd take a chance on a guy like Jones, if I know he has a real passion for football. Is that fair?

I don't see any, what I'd say were "can't miss" guys in this draft. I thought that with Bradford, and Luck, and Rodgers, and I won't go back any further than that.

 

[Merlin]

I watched Carden and yeah gotta agree with previous mentions that he took some bad sacks. He is very much a mid to late round QB who could go a little earlier due to some team reaching for the position. To me the dude is nothing special, I don't like his decision making seems slow to me and he's not good feeling the rush. Problem here, in his favor, is it seemed like his WRs weren't getting open quickly but he's not notably accurate either. So as usual with him I came away unimpressed.

Mariota and Winston will go top ten, I have zero doubt on that unless something we don't know about surfaces with Winston like the coaches hate him or they think he very well may have raped that girl. But for now we gotta assume both those guys go very high. Petty I think is going to be a riser, because he is undervalued and there is no reason for him to go later. He very much reminds me of Rodgers in that way, where his offense will count against him in spite of all his tools, but I cannot see him lasting too long once teams have gone back and watched his junior tape along with both bowl games. My guess is if you want to ensure you get him going into the late first round is the way to go.

As to Grayson I am on the fence with him. I have gone back and watched some of his games, I see him as a solid QB prospect but nowhere near Petty/Mariota/Winston. Petty IMO will solidify as the third QB in this draft and that may lead to some desperate team reaching for him. If the Rams plan to take him in the 2nd round, I could see another team moving up ahead of them to take him. I also have a hard time seeing him get by Dallas or even New England in the late first round, particularly Dallas. It's gonna be a scary draft for me personally since he's the guy I want the Rams to take, and it's also why I think a trade up for either Mariota or Winston could happen so Snead and Fish don't have to be on pins and needles through entire rounds hoping their guy makes it to their pick/s.

 

[jrry32]

How do I know? I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass, it's very hard to tell, but like I've said numerous times, it's more of what attributes do you love, because that is what scouts and GM's fall in love with. Some things thay consider workable, some things they don't. For instance, Tebow was off a lot of guys boards, because of his horrid release, although he had so many things that most would consider being "other" great attributes, like being a proven winner, and incredible leader, as well as having a very good height/strength/speed ratio. I didn't think Tebow would make it, and that was by what I saw of him, and projecting him to the NFL. I did, however, love a lot of things about him. I wish he would have tried to play h-Back or something, because he IS a football player, just not a QB.

I agree. My issue is that a lot of the attributes that people associate with "upside" aren't what makes a successful QB.

Now, let's take Brady. Skinny ass kid, with a pretty good arm, had a hard time getting on the field, but he had a thirst for the game, was super competitive, played big boy football, at a high level. He has ideal height, and was worth taking a chance on. He wasn't considered a high pick, I didn't see him as a high pick, nobody did. Believe me, everybody is looking for the next Brady. This is common knowledge.

Brady is a good example of what I mean. I don't think he'd be what most people consider a high upside pick. Tall, scrawny kid who had an average arm and not much in the way of mobility. But he got to the NFL and improved his arm strength by bulking up and improving his lower body mechanics and core rotation. But most of all, he's incredibly instinctual, accurate, mechanically sound, and smart.(as well as poised)

But I don't think he's really the example of a high upside kid. You know what I mean?

Take Joe Montana. Scrawny kid with average height, underwhelming arm strength, good mobility, and cruddy college production. That's not what I'd think of as a high upside player either and he's considered by many to be the GOAT QB.

Kurt Warner? Average height with a solid build, nothing special arm, and not much in the way of mobility.

Tony Romo? Same sort of size as Warner, same sort of arm, but decent(nothing special) mobility.

Marc Bulger? Solid height and build, solid arm, and not much in the way of mobility.

I guess the point I'm making is that a lot of people associate upside with size, arm strength, and mobility. But when you look at the guys who were overlooked in the process, they are typically guys who didn't stand out in those categories. They became great because they had the instincts, accuracy, mechanics, and mental acuity to be special.

But if you are defining upside in your own way...that could explain the disconnect here.

I watched Rodgers play a lot of football in college at Cal, and i couldn't believe how many teams passed on him. I was literally screaming at the TV, "You guys are idiots!"

That's how I felt about Bridgewater. But why did he fall? IMO...lack of "upside". Didn't have the ideal size or arm strength of a highly drafted QB and did poorly in the most meaningless part of the evaluations(post-season workouts).

How do I know, I don't for sure, it's just my opinion, and if it's me, I'd go for the kind of kid out of Ohio St., who IMO, has a huge upside with all the tools to go with it. Almost every tool, but a small sample size. A very quality sample size, but a small one. Is he ready? No. Is he worth ta draft pick and trying to develop him, hell yes.

I would too but that type of kid is rare...which is one of the reasons why I like him. Typically, with his tools, you're either going to have him going top 20 or falling to day 3. If he's going top 20, it's because he's showed enough skills, instincts, and improvement that teams believe he can be their guy. If he's going Day 3, it's because he hasn't shown the skills, instincts, and improvement and a team is just taking a flier on him in hopes he figures it out.

Cardale Jones is different because there's not enough experience there for you to know he has those things which would have him get drafted highly...but not enough experience for you to know that he doesn't have those things...which would get him drafted lowly. That's what I like. He's a mystery but in a good way.

If I see guys improve, and rarely make the same mistake twice, and they have other attributes that I like, I think that they have the ability to learn and improve. If I see guys with a fatal flaw, or can't learn from mistakes, then I pass. Thing is, I don't know these kids personally, or enough to make that call, unless i see, or read things about them that show me what they have in their hearts, their love for the game, and wanting to be the best. That is the thing that can elevate guys like Brady, etc.

That's true. Just gotta go with what you can see.

There are an infinite amount of other things to consider, such as team fit, etc. It's just my opinion, but I base it on watching them play, and reading reports about them, etc. If I know nothing about a guy, I don't comment on him. Guys like Russel Wilson, and Doug Flutie are the exception, not the rule, but i don't count guys out like that, because of how short they are. Wilson and Flutie both passed my eyeball test. All things being equal, I'd take a chance on a guy like Jones, if I know he has a real passion for football. Is that fair?

Totally. I agree. It's just that most guys like Jones wouldn't work for me. Because if they're not going highly, they've typically proven they aren't good...like Logan Thomas.

Which is why I'd prefer, IN MOST CASES, to take a shot on a guy who might be lacking in an attribute or two if they show they have other qualities that are potentially special...like pocket presence, mental processing speed, ball placement, etc.

I don't see any, what I'd say were "can't miss" guys in this draft. I thought that with Bradford, and Luck, and Rodgers, and I won't go back any further than that.

If his character checks out well enough, I think Winston is "can't miss". Beyond that, I agree. I thought Bradford, Luck, and Bridgewater were "can't miss" guys. I wasn't evaluating when Rodgers came out so I can't speak with authority on him.

I watched Carden and yeah gotta agree with previous mentions that he took some bad sacks. He is very much a mid to late round QB who could go a little earlier due to some team reaching for the position. To me the dude is nothing special, I don't like his decision making seems slow to me and he's not good feeling the rush. Problem here, in his favor, is it seemed like his WRs weren't getting open quickly but he's not notably accurate either. So as usual with him I came away unimpressed.

Carden should be a Day 3 pick. Just has some attributes I like.