PFF: Rams Lead NFL in Yds/Run when Pulling Backside OL

[LACHAMP46]

Good to know...now, how do you use this intell?

 

[RamBall]

If you average 4.1 yards per carry on all rushing plays, but 7.1 yards per carry on a subset of those plays... why weren't you running that subset more often? I don't know, I thought part of the OC's job is to figure out what works well, and keep doing it.

Sometimes I think Schotty tried to hard. The opening script of plays was usually very successful. But then it seemed he would try to not wear out the plays that worked so well early, IMO if you find a play to be successful repeat it often. If the D cant stop it why stop running it?

 

[iced]

Sometimes I think Schotty tried to hard. The opening script of plays was usually very successful. But then it seemed he would try to not wear out the plays that worked so well early, IMO if you find a play to be successful repeat it often. If the D cant stop it why stop running it?

My biggest complaint with schotty was unscripted strategy - its like he was lost...couldn't figure out the chess game of OC vs DC.. run plays from the same formation, just do different stuff - and then hit 'em with play action....put tavon in motion...etc

lot of different things

 

[LACHAMP46]

Sometimes I think Schotty tried to hard. The opening script of plays was usually very successful. But then it seemed he would try to not wear out the plays that worked so well early, IMO if you find a play to be successful repeat it often. If the D cant stop it why stop running it?

My biggest complaint with schotty was unscripted strategy - its like he was lost...couldn't figure out the chess game of OC vs DC.. run plays from the same formation, just do different stuff - and then hit 'em with play action....put tavon in motion...etc

lot of different things

Agreed...Seems you are both saying the same thing. We all have watched how the offense would click at the opening of most games...then at the beggining of the 2nd half, it would slow to a crawl....One game we had like 7-9 consecutive 3 and outs....Can you imagine how hard that would be to accomplish on purpose? So, IDK how a guy keeps a job in the pros, but it was clear that the QB's limited our OC....I still don't know how much..Davis & Hill are still pro players, and our OC couldn't score points in many 2nd halves..I hate having to rate Schotty..Can we ever get a season when there won't be excuses...?

 

[-X-]

That's true... however, it is an average... so that says something about what you're pointing out, no?

Not really. That 80+ yard run by Mason, for example.
What if I told you that was off of a zbs?

He'd have to have several dozen 1 yard runs in a zbs to average that out, yeah?

 

[iced]

Agreed...Seems you are both saying the same thing. We all have watched how the offense would click at the opening of most games...then at the beggining of the 2nd half, it would slow to a crawl....One game we had like 7-9 consecutive 3 and outs....Can you imagine how hard that would be to accomplish on purpose? So, IDK how a guy keeps a job in the pros, but it was clear that the QB's limited our OC....I still don't know how much..Davis & Hill are still pro players, and our OC couldn't score points in many 2nd halves..I hate having to rate Schotty..Can we ever get a season when there won't be excuses...?

This is why I don't subscribe to the school of though that it was mostly on the QB's - the play calling dips in the 2nd half, particularly the 3rd quarter (think we were the worst in points) is extremely telling.

 

[-X-]

This is why I don't subscribe to the school of though that it was mostly on the QB's - the play calling dips in the 2nd half, particularly the 3rd quarter (think we were the worst in points) is extremely telling.

All depends on how you look at it. The Rams were 10th in the league last year in 1st half points, and 28th in 2nd half points. But to put that in perspective, the defense was ranked 2nd in the league in points allowed in the first half, and 4th worst in second half points allowed. I'm not sure I buy the idea that this vaunted defense of ours was gassed in the second half after the offense was ranked so high in the first half. Because the offense had the ball 49% of the time in the first half and almost 48% in the second. Pretty even.

We can hang that on Schotty if we need a scapegoat, but I think the idea of discounting the presence of a good QB is a bad idea. The importance of that cannot be understated when you find yourself in the position of needing to come back.

 

[CGI_Ram]

All depends on how you look at it. The Rams were 10th in the league last year in 1st half points, and 28th in 2nd half points. But to put that in perspective, the defense was ranked 2nd in the league in points allowed in the first half, and 4th worst in second half points allowed. I'm not sure I buy the idea that this vaunted defense of ours was gassed in the second half after the offense was ranked so high in the first half. Because the offense had the ball 49% of the time in the first half and almost 48% in the second. Pretty even.

We can hang that on Schotty if we need a scapegoat, but I think the idea of discounting the presence of a good QB is a bad idea. The importance of that cannot be understated when you find yourself in the position of needing to come back.

No question and well said.

My critique, however, wasn't always about the QB play. Instead the play selection in some situations.

No question our QB's limited some things... And every OC is a target for 2nd guessing... But I found myself scratching my head more than I wanted.

I am glad we have a fresh start.

 

[iced]

All depends on how you look at it. The Rams were 10th in the league last year in 1st half points, and 28th in 2nd half points. But to put that in perspective, the defense was ranked 2nd in the league in points allowed in the first half, and 4th worst in second half points allowed. I'm not sure I buy the idea that this vaunted defense of ours was gassed in the second half after the offense was ranked so high in the first half. Because the offense had the ball 49% of the time in the first half and almost 48% in the second. Pretty even.

We can hang that on Schotty if we need a scapegoat, but I think the idea of discounting the presence of a good QB is a bad idea. The importance of that cannot be understated when you find yourself in the position of needing to come back.

The defense had more of a learning curve (1st year system), but more importantly, several injuries - particularly to the secondary. those with long being injured i think have a lot to do with it - and a big reason why the traded for barron (mccleod and davis were hurt that weekend prior to the trade)

 

[-X-]

The defense had more of a learning curve (1st year system), but more importantly, several injuries - particularly to the secondary. those with long being injured i think have a lot to do with it - and a big reason why the traded for barron (mccleod and davis were hurt that weekend prior to the trade)

Why did the defense have more of a learning curve when we had two QBs who had never played in the offense?

 

[iced]

Why did the defense have more of a learning curve when we had two QBs who had never played in the offense?

Most of the offense had been here - Davis in particular.. Hill is a vet - most vet's don't struggle too badly picking up playbooks.

I'm not saying the QB's are error free - I am saying between the o-line, qb, receivers, and OC, this is how i would "rank blame" so to speak

1)Schotty
2)O-line
3)WR's/QB (can really flip flop between 3 and 4 on these two depending on who's healthy)

 

[-X-]

Most of the offense had been here - Davis in particular.. Hill is a vet - most vet's don't struggle too badly picking up playbooks.

I'm not saying the QB's are error free - I am saying between the o-line, qb, receivers, and OC, this is how i would "rank blame" so to speak

1)Schotty
2)O-line
3)WR's/QB (can really flip flop between 3 and 4 on these two depending on who's healthy)

I'd probably rank it like this

1) QB(s)
2) WR's
3) Schotty
4) O-line

And I could switch 3 & 4 as well.

 

[iced]

I'd probably rank it like this

1) QB(s)
2) WR's
3) Schotty
4) O-line

And I could switch 3 & 4 as well.

I just don't think Schotty is that great of an OC.

An example of a good one would be Norv Turner - I really think he doesn't get enough credit for what he did with Josh Gordon in Cleveland..Which had 3 different qb's, only 1 stud receiver, and little support else where (Except for LT and C obviously)...

The best thing about Schotty being gone is that cignetti's offense is supposedly simpler (less of a head ache for players to pick up the scheme), and they're not going to abandon things that are working

 

[-X-]

I just don't think Schotty is that great of an OC.

An example of a good one would be Norv Turner - I really think he doesn't get enough credit for what he did with Josh Gordon in Cleveland..Which had 3 different qb's, only 1 stud receiver, and little support else where (Except for LT and C obviously)...

The best thing about Schotty being gone is that cignetti's offense is supposedly simpler (less of a head ache for players to pick up the scheme), and they're not going to abandon things that are working

I don't think he's great either, but I also don't think he's as bad as he's being made out to be.

As far as Cignetti not abandoning things that are working, well, that certainly remains to be seen. But at the same time, we really don't know if that was the case with Schotty. Just because he didn't run the same play (that worked) 100 times after it did work, doesn't mean that there weren't other factors at play. I mean, that assumes that the opposing defense simply ignored what worked for us and said "Yeah, go ahead and keep doing that. We're cool with being continually gashed."

 

[iced]

I don't think he's great either, but I also don't think he's as bad as he's being made out to be.

His career shows sub par offenses carried by better defenses when the record was good

As far as Cignetti not abandoning things that are working, well, that certainly remains to be seen. But at the same time, we really don't know if that was the case with Schotty. Just because he didn't run the same play (that worked) 100 times after it did work, doesn't mean that there weren't other factors at play. I mean, that assumes that the opposing defense simply ignored what worked for us and said "Yeah, go ahead and keep doing that. We're cool with being continually gashed."

I can't agree with this - i mean the back side pulling stat is a good one; there were also times from 2 years ago when we were great at running the ball on the left side (behind long and saffold), yet they kept going to the inept right side... and again, going back to the 3rd quarter points. He simply doesn't know how to adjust - and after his first few scripted plays, the offense consistently sputtered

 

[-X-]

I can't agree with this - i mean the back side pulling stat is a good one; there were also times from 2 years ago when we were great at running the ball on the left side (behind long and saffold), yet they kept going to the inept right side... and again, going back to the 3rd quarter points. He simply doesn't know how to adjust - and after his first few scripted plays, the offense consistently sputtered

I guess we're at an impasse then. He's kind of smart for designing success with a zbs and then stupid for not doing it enough. That just doesn't compute for me. It's like his mental dialogue went something like this.

"Wow, look at how well we run when I pull linemen. I should probably stop doing that."

And then Fisher's input.

Fisher: "The hell are you doing? It's working and you stop? You're outta control man!"
Schotty: "I don't care what you say. If it's working, I want no part of it. And you're not the boss of me."

 

[CGI_Ram]

He's kind of smart for designing success with a zbs and then stupid for not doing it enough. That just doesn't compute for me. It's like his mental dialogue went something like this.

"Wow, look at how well we run when I pull linemen. I should probably stop doing that."

And then Fisher's input.

Fisher: "The hell are you doing? It's working and you stop? You're outta control man!"
Schotty: "I don't care what you say. If it's working, I want no part of it. And you're not the boss of me."

Haha!

 

[snackdaddy]

I guess we're at an impasse then. He's kind of smart for designing success with a zbs and then stupid for not doing it enough. That just doesn't compute for me. It's like his mental dialogue went something like this.

"Wow, look at how well we run when I pull linemen. I should probably stop doing that."

And then Fisher's input.

Fisher: "The hell are you doing? It's working and you stop? You're outta control man!"
Schotty: "I don't care what you say. If it's working, I want no part of it. And you're not the boss of me."

Well, that explains a lot.

 

[Barrison]

I guess we're at an impasse then. He's kind of smart for designing success with a zbs and then stupid for not doing it enough. That just doesn't compute for me. It's like his mental dialogue went something like this.

"Wow, look at how well we run when I pull linemen. I should probably stop doing that."

And then Fisher's input.

Fisher: "The hell are you doing? It's working and you stop? You're outta control man!"
Schotty: "I don't care what you say. If it's working, I want no part of it. And you're not the boss of me."

Maybe he was trying to hard to try and strategize by mixing in the plays that are working too often so in thought, they don't stop working. I want an OC that's not afraid to go for the jugular and not show hesitation in exploiting what is successful.

 

[-X-]

Maybe he was trying to hard to try and strategize by mixing in the plays that are working too often so in thought, they don't stop working. I want an OC that's not afraid to go for the jugular and not show hesitation in exploiting what is successful.

Or maybe execution wasn't always on point because his playbook reads like a trigonometry exam. We do know that. And we do know that a few of these receivers had very little exposure to playbooks before they were drafted. That, coupled with the carousel of QBs these past couple of years, makes it very hard to put another team on the ropes. I understand what you're saying Barry, but I'm just not ever going to subscribe to the idea that Schotty didn't "adjust". We've had 3 offensive coordinators since the purge of 2009, and the results have always been the same. The only common thread I can find is that both head coaches aren't widely known for their offensive prowess.