Peter King: MMQB - 9/1/14

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Early Test for NFL’s New Domestic Violence Policy
49ers DT Ray McDonald's weekend arrest came two days after Roger Goodell established a six-game ban for first-time offenses. What happens next? Plus, examining Alex Smith's extension, the lack of surprises on cutdown day and more
By Peter King
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/01/ray-mcdonald-49ers-domestic-violence-nfl/

Much to address this morning, three days out from the NFL’s 95th season. I was planning to address the Roger Goodell about-face on domestic violence later in the column, but the Ray McDonald arrest at 3 a.m. Sunday in San Jose, and the 49ers defensive tackle being charged with felony domestic violence, changed all that. So this bit of inside-MMQB for those waiting for my piece on Green Bay GM Ted Thompson: We’re going to run it Wednesday here at The MMQB, when we can give it proper treatment the day before the season. Today’s budget:

  • An early test for the new Roger Goodell policy on domestic violence.
  • Alex Smith gets what he deserves, a new four-year contract that doesn’t overpay him.
  • Theorizing why Michael Sam was still unemployed as of midnight.
  • A body double made Champ Bailey outdated.
  • A relatively boring cutdown weekend, if you ask me. (Even if you ask one veteran NFL personnel man. “Man, that waiver wire sucked this weekend,’’ he said Sunday.)
  • The Browns lead the league in something, anyway. (Defensive backs.)
  • Seattle is shallow on the offensive line, and an interesting punt-returner call by Pete Carroll.
  • Story of the weekend not named Michael Sam: Ben Garland. (Go ahead. Search him.)
  • I talk to Logan Mankins. He doesn’t sound bitter, but how can he not be?
  • Why you want Bill Vinovich or Craig Wrolstad to be the ref at your team’s game this weekend.

News item: Goodell toughens NFL’s domestic violence policy.
Newsier item: Forty-Niner tests it immediately.

San Jose police responded to a complaint early Sunday morning involving San Francisco defensive tackle Ray McDonald and a woman that NBC Bay Area reported is pregnant. She had bruises on her neck and arms, the Sacramento Bee reported, and McDonald was jailed on suspicion of felony domestic violence charges. He was released later in the morning on $25,000 bond and ordered to appear in court Sept. 15.

“Felony domestic violence is a serious charge in any jurisdiction,” said Kim Gandy, president and CEO of the National Network to End Domestic Violence, in a phone interview Sunday afternoon, hearing the news for the first time. “The fact that they are discussing this as a felony says to me the law-enforcement investigators believe it is serious. I expect the commissioner to respond definitively and assertively.”

Gandy was one of six national authorities on domestic violence who helped Goodell shape his decisive new policy, first in a lengthy phone call in mid-August and then in a meeting at the league offices in Manhattan on Aug. 21. The MMQB has talked to three of the outside experts called on by Goodell, and all were encouraged by the tougher policy on domestic violence laid out by Goodell: a six-game ban for a first offense (though with some wiggle room for “mitigating factors”), and a year-to-lifetime ban for a repeat offender.

Then came the McDonald news, disappointing for the substance and stunning in its timeliness.

“We are looking into it,” league spokesman Greg Aiello said Sunday. That was the only statement—but it seemed clear that the league may not wait for final court adjudication in the case. Goodell’s letter to the owners Thursday addressing the new policy said the policy is “effective immediately” and the urgency of the issue could push the NFL to act sooner than the courts. The league’s Personal Conduct Policy opens the possibility for discipline before the courts rule if Goodell feels there is an “immediate and substantial risk to the integrity and reputation of the NFL.”

“The [domestic violence] policy is going to be tested quickly,” said Gandy, a veteran of the fight to end domestic abuse. “I think it is probably a good thing for a policy to be tested quickly, to see if the policy works the way it was meant to work. I am very sorry to hear this news, but it is a reminder how frequent and common domestic violence in this country is, unfortunately. I believe the commissioner will say, ‘This is our policy and we are going to stand behind it and implement it fairly.’ My experience with him is that he will be fair and even-handed.”

But the news about McDonald, a valuable starter on the San Francisco defensive front seven already coping with the nine-game suspension to its best pass-rusher, Aldon Smith, and knowing the team could be without rehabbing star linebacker NaVorro Bowman until midseason, could not come at a worse time. Being in trouble with the law is one thing. But coach Jim Harbaugh has been open with his players about seeing red over domestic violence. The Niners were mostly mum Sunday about the incident, but it will be interesting to see if the Niners act on McDonald once all the facts are in before the commissioner does.

If McDonald did indeed lay his hands on a woman in the tenor of these times, he has just made the biggest mistake of his career—and at just about the worst time possible. Goodell obviously views this issue as one the NFL has to take a lead role. On Thursday—with Russian troops pouring into Ukraine, with a presidential news conference that day discussing crises in Iraq and Syria, with ISIS creating an international scare, with a cease-fire in Gaza holding perilously, with Ferguson, Mo., still simmering—NBC led “The NBC Nightly News” with Goodell’s re-write of the domestic violence policy.

What was so impactful to Goodell and to those in the league who worked on this issue was the staying power of the outrage after the commissioner suspended Ray Rice of the Ravens just two games for an incident in which his then-fiancée was knocked unconscious in an altercation with Rice in February. Five days after the Rice decision, CNN led its morning newscast with a panel ripping the league over the light sentence. Five days. In his letter to owners last week, Goodell recognized the outcry, and the league’s role in society that he underestimated. Goodell wrote: “The public response reinforced my belief that the NFL is held to a higher standard, and properly so. Much of the criticism stemmed from a fundamental recognition that the NFL is a leader, that we do stand for important values, and that we can project those values in ways that have a positive impact beyond professional football. We embrace this role and the responsibility that comes with it.”

In his early fact-finding, Goodell talked to experts inside and outside his office—mostly outside. “When we talked,” said Gandy, “he said, basically, that he wanted to educate himself. He was genuine in wanting to understand the causes and wanting to know the best role for the league. At one point, we were talking about law enforcement, and he said to me, ‘Why isn’t everyone angry at the judge and the prosecutor in the Rice case? We actually did something, rather than nothing.’ I said, ‘These are your fans who are angry. They are not fans of the judge and the prosecutor.'”

The three advocates interviewed by The MMQB were pleased with what the NFL did last week, but clear they will be watching to see how the league implements its discipline and outreach programs. “If they address domestic violence at the level they are capable of, it can be game changing,” said Rita Smith of the group Violence Against Woman. She was in the meeting with the league Aug. 21. “I feel pretty strongly, as of right now, that Commissioner Goodell and the NFL are committed to this. I believed they listened to us and took our advice with weight. It took a while, and a lot of outward pressure, but we are here. They need to follow through. So I hope I feel as good about it in six months, or a year. If I don’t, I have no problem applying a little more pressure. That’s what it took to get them here.”

Said Esta Soler, president of Futures Without Violence: “At the end of the day, the letter the commissioner released is a very strong letter. But the work now begins. That was just a letter. That was day one. Now the commitment of resources and time is how we will evaluate how committed the NFL is to this issue. We certainly applaud the NFL for the letter, and for increasing the penalty and laying out a program. Now they have to do the program. And they need to see it through. The letter is a strong letter. And it goes beyond just the penalty, which is a good thing. Because that’s how you change culture and that’s how you change behavior. We get that. But now a serious commitment to time and resources has to accompany that outline.”

One more point. One of the late additions to the letter Goodell sent to owners was trying to leave the league some flexibility on a hard-and-fast six-game ban for first offenses. Aggravating factors—assaulting a pregnant woman, for instance—could make the sanction harsher. But there also is no guarantee that the ban could be as long as six games. Read the letter:

“Effective immediately, violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to a suspension without pay of six games for a first offense, with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension when circumstances warrant. Among the circumstances that would merit a more severe penalty would be a prior incident before joining the NFL, or violence involving a weapon, choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in the presence of a child.”

So I think any confirmed assault will merit more than two games, but there’s no guarantee every one will be at least six. “We were clear in our meeting with the commissioner: One size doesn’t fit all, and one size rarely fits all,” said Gandy. “We recognize there are greatly different levels of violence.”

We’ll see how steadfast the league is on the issue, both in discipline and education, but last Thursday was a start. The McDonald case tests it immediately. “Movements are made of moments,” said Soler, “and this is a moment.” It won’t take long to find out if the movement is working.

Alex Smith’s deal: Smart for him, smart for the team.

Kansas City GM John Dorsey did the right thing Sunday evening, putting the finishing touches on a four-year contract extension for Alex Smith that will pay him, on average, $15.1 million over the next five years. (That includes his $7.5-million salary this year, the last year of the contract he signed in San Francisco before being traded to Kansas City 17 months ago.)

The way I figure it, Smith is now the 11th-highest-paid quarterback in the NFL in terms of average salary in the existing contract. I have these quarterbacks ahead of him: Aaron Rodgers ($22 million), Matt Ryan ($20.8 million), Joe Flacco ($20.1 million), Drew Brees ($20 million), Peyton Manning ($19.2 million), Jay Cutler ($18.1 million), Tony Romo ($18 million), Eli Manning ($16.3 million), Matthew Stafford ($15.3 million), and Philip Rivers ($15.3 million). Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick each have newly minted deals that could surpass Smith, but they have too many qualifiers here to include. Suffice it to say if they’re both really good over the next few years, they should exceed Smith.

So let’s answer the questions many of you have this morning about the deal and about the player.

Q: Why did the Chiefs pay Smith now instead of waiting for him to get to the market after this season?

A: Logical question, because they could have franchised Smith at the end of this year and paid him about $25 million over the next two years instead of the $45 million he’ll now make over the next two years, according to Pro Football Talk, assuming the Chiefs pick up his $15-million option next spring. But do you want to enter a year-to-year deal with the leader of your team, telling him: We don’t really trust you, and we’re going to pay Dwayne Bowe and other key guys to our future but not you? Not a good business plan, and not a good business plan to risk Smith having a very good year and potentially hitting restricted free agency next March at age 30.

Q: Smith isn’t worth $15 million a year. Never has been. Why cave to him and give him that money?

A: Look at the market. Flacco got paid $5 million per year more than 13 months ago. Matt Ryan got paid $5.7-million per year more over a year ago too. Rivers signed his deal four years ago and his deal still slightly exceeds Smith’s. The cap is going up by leaps now, not trickles. Is the starting quarterback, the centerpiece of a returning playoff team, worth 11.4 percent of your salary cap? I think so.

Q: Why such love for a game manager?

A: You mean the game manager who put up 44 points in the playoff loss at Indianapolis last year, who completed 30 of 46 passes for 378 yards, with four touchdowns and no picks—and ran for 57 yards too? The game manager who put up 38, 28, 45 and 56 points in four late-season games last year, with 12 touchdown passes?

Folks, it’s okay to change your minds about a player. Alex Smith of 2014 isn’t Alex Smith of 2007. He’s a pretty good player. Not the best quarterback in football. Not in the top five, or the top 10 probably. But on a given day, he can play with any quarterback, and he’s certainly not the impediment to winning that so many people in Football America view him to be. He’s going to complete 64 percent or so of his throws, he’s going to limit mistakes, and he’s going to give Kansas City a good chance to win most Sundays. In this current landscape at quarterback, with the alternatives the Chiefs faced (Aaron Murray in 2015 or ’16, or Chase Daniel, or some other draftee or retread), Dorsey made a smart move.

* * *

Thoughts on cutdown weekend.

Most notable about cutdown weekend, when 704 men lost their jobs and/or were assigned to various practice squads: There were no shocks. A couple of surprises, but can you honestly say it was a stunner to see Michael Sam cut? Champ Bailey? Nate Burleson? No. Nothing really strange happened, but here’s what caught my eye:

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Jim Leonhard was one of 12 defensive backs kept on the 53-man roster by the Browns. (Nick Cammett/Getty Images)

1. Found it interesting that the average age of the Denver Broncos’ final 53 is 25.8. I would have guessed 28.8. John Elway has done a good job of keeping an eye on the future while putting a team on the field with veterans of a certain age (Peyton Manning, Wes Welker, DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib, Jacob Tamme, Manny Ramirez) to contend for the Super Bowl now.

2. Most interesting position group in the NFL: Cleveland’s secondary. GM Ray Farmer kept 12 defensive backs. Hmmm. Twelve of 53 men, including seven corners. Coach Mike Pettine liked using some strange sets when he worked with Rex Ryan and the Jets, particularly against New England. Remember the divisional playoff game in the 2010 season? The Jets dressed 11 defensive backs that day out of 45 active players, and my memory of the game is Tom Brady pat-pat-patting the ball in the pocket, unable to find an open man.

The Jets opened in nickel that day, with three extra corners and three extra safeties, and they all played. Here’s an interesting story for the Cleveland beat writers to dig into: One of the unexpected keepers in Cleveland, safety Jim Leonhard, was on IR that day in New England but helped Pettine and Ryan design one wrinkle of the gameplan against Brady that helped the Jets win. I’ll be interested to watch what Pettine throws at Ben Roethlisberger on Sunday in Pittsburgh.

3. Let history show it was a player with the exact dimension of the 6-0, 193-pound Champ Bailey—6-0, 193-pound free-agent Brian Dixon of Northwest Missouri State—who essentially took Bailey’s job with the Saints. Dixon does have one edge: He’s healthier (Bailey had some plantar fasciitis in training camp), and he’s 12 years younger. Bailey will catch on somewhere, likely in time to play this week.

4. Green Bay never keeps three quarterbacks, but Scott Tolzien and Matt Flynn played well in the preseason and forced GM Ted Thompson’s hand. With Aaron Rodgers missing seven games last year, and with Thompson knowing Tolzien or Flynn likely would have been claimed elsewhere by a team needing a solid number two (or three), the Packers did the right thing and kept Rodgers, Tolzien and Flynn active.

5. Fallout from the 2012 draft begins. Check out this ugly 32-pick span between No. 22 and 53:

22: Cleveland—Brandon Weeden waived after last season, now a Dallas backup.

26: Houston—Whitney Mercilus slated to be a backup with Jadeveon Clowney in the house.

30: San Francisco—Gave up on A.J. Jenkins last year, and Jenkins made the Chiefs as either the fourth or fifth wideout. Jenkins could get cut when Dwayne Bowe returns from his one-game suspension.

42: Miami—Jonathan Martin set free to seek a new life after the Incognito hazing. Backup tackle in San Francisco.

43: New York Jets—To move up four spots on draft day, from 47 to 43, the Jets traded fifth- and seventh-round picks to Seattle. New York picked combine star and NFL flunkout Stephen Hill, the Georgia Tech wide receiver who was waived Saturday. So Hill, who produced zilch in two seasons, cost the Jets three picks.

50: St. Louis—Isaiah Pead would have been on the outside of a roster spot looking in had he not torn his ACL and been put on IR by the Rams. Very little chance of sticking next summer.

51: Green Bay—Jerel Worthy, a total washout, was traded to New England for a conditional late-round pick last month, and cut by the Patriots on Saturday.

53: Cincinnati—Devon Still was cut Saturday by the Bengals. Another wasted pick.

6. Seattle waives Terrelle Pryor. Who’s taking a shot at a mobile guy with some talent?

7. Quite a career Tyler Wilson is working on. In the past 12 months, the former Arkansas quarterback has been waived by Oakland twice, waived by Tennessee once and—now—waived by Cincinnati. The Bengals re-signed him to their practice squad Sunday. He was good enough to beat out Matt (Vomited Three Times On The Field In Kansas City) Scott, however.

8. Duke Ihenacho was good enough to start all 17 Denver games at safety last year, including the Super Bowl. But he wasn’t good enough to back up T.J. Ward this year. Waived.

9. Two of the great wheelers/dealers worked out a trade Saturday: Indy GM Ryan Grigson sending street free-agent cornerback Marcus Burley to Seattle GM John Schneider for a 2015 sixth-round pick. Interesting for a couple of reasons. Burley’s not the big corner prototype that Seattle likes; he’s 5-10 and 185, pretty small to flourish in the land of the Seattle, where the other corners on the roster this morning are 6-3, 6-1, 6-3 and 6-0. And in the last 12 months, Burley couldn’t crack a roster but did play on the practice squads of Jacksonville, Philadelphia, St. Louis and Indianapolis.

10. When I visited Seattle’s camp, there was no question offensive line was the biggest weak spot in the Seahawks’ quest to repeat. And it’s a group that bears watching Thursday night. Second-round rookie Justin Britt beat out NFLPA president Eric Winston for the right tackle job, and Winston was cut; Seattle kept two backup undrafted tackles instead: Alvin Bailey and Garry Gilliam. So the Seattle line, left to right, will be Russell Okung, James Carpenter, Max Unger, J.R. Sweezy and Britt, and the group can’t afford many injuries.

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Protecting Russell Wilson could be an issue for the Seahawks this season. (Tom Ganam/AP)

11. Buffalo entered camp with Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel and Dennis Dixon backing up E.J. Manuel, and exited with none of the three on the roster. Kyle Orton, signed Saturday after an offseason of inactivity after quitting the Cowboys, is the only quarterback backing up Manuel now. Not the most comfortable situation entering the season, particularly with Manuel’s shaky preseason. Get in that playbook quickly, Mr. Orton.

12. Tight end Tony Moeaki: IR in Kansas City, 2011 … IR in Kansas City, 2013 … Waived with an injury settlement in Kansas City, 2013 … IR in Buffalo, 2014. I sense a trend.

13. I have never seen a more misleading 5-0 preseason than the one the New York Giants just had. Eli Manning completed 49 percent of his throws, Odell Beckham (hamstring) wasn’t healthy all summer, and the passing game looked just as sickly as Beckham. Yikes. Giants have to win a scoring contest with Detroit a week from tonight. I don’t like their chances.

14. Earl Thomas returned four punts at Texas, but since the Seahawks drafted him in 2010, he hasn’t returned a punt in a real game. Tune in Thursday night against Green Bay. Looks like Thomas could return punts and Percy Harvin kicks—now if that’s not the most famous return tandem in recent NFL history, I don’t know what would be—in the NFL’s season-opener. Interesting stage for a first-time NFL returner.

15. Alfred Morris, 173rd pick in 2012, by Washington. Alfred Blue, 181st pick in 2014, by Houston. Not saying Blue’s going to have the kind of rookie season Morris had in Washington (1,613 yards), but with Arian Foster’s durability in question and Blue having a great camp, let’s just say I wouldn’t wait until the last round to take Blue in my fantasy draft this week.

16. That’s the hot breath of Zach Mettenberger (47 of 68 in the preseason) you feel on your neck, Jake Locker.

17. Kansas City liked 22-year-old free-agent Brazilian kicker Cairo Santos (from Tulane) anyway. But when you compare salaries of Santos and the incumbent, Ryan Succop, you see one good reason why Santos was Andy Reid’s pick Saturday. Succop was due to make $1.95 million in salary this year. Santos is due to make $1.53 million altogether over the next three years.

18. None of the Rams’ last five draft picks is on their 53-man roster, including Sam. That’s either a sign of a much better roster in St. Louis, or the sign of some bad drafting late.

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Michael Sam attended the South Dakota State-Missouri game on Saturday, the day he found out he didn’t make the Rams’ 53-man roster. (L.G. Patterson/AP)

TEN THINGS I THINK I THINK

1. I think Michael Sam being waived by the Rams came down to four factors:

  • He was outplayed in camp and in preseason games—though not in a rout—by a more versatile player, undrafted free-agent Ethan Westbrooks, who the Rams think can play at defensive end or defensive tackle. Sam was strictly a defensive end.
  • All four incumbent defensive ends who made the team—Robert Quinn, Chris Long, William Hayes and Eugene Sims—plus Westbrooks, who showed better pass-rush ability in training camp and games, are signed at least through the end of the 2015 season. It’s not impossible that Sam could develop and take advantage of injuries at the position if they happened, but the Rams had other depth needs that were more pressing.
  • Sam was on just one special team, kick coverage. He wasn’t valuable in the kicking game.
  • St. Louis wasn’t impacted by any external pressure, because Jeff Fisher and the team played the story right the entire way—from bringing in NFL LGBT adviser Wade Davis to speak with the team right after the draft to being upfront with Sam about his chances all along.
2. I think NFL teams are seeing ghosts on Michael Sam, who, as of midnight Sunday, was still on the street looking for a practice squad to join. If a team plays a 3-4, as many do, he’s not a fit. But Sam is a 257-pound defensive end in a 4-3 system who has a chance to create a little havoc and a chance—a chance, I say, not a sure thing—to be a growth stock for teams. But I talked to three team architects over the weekend. They’re concerned about the circus coming to town with the first openly gay player trying to make an NFL roster. What circus, exactly? A little ESPN story about shower habits?

That’s been the big controversy of the last four months with Sam. He’s had two press conferences, peaceful and uneventful ones, and met the press briefly after each of the St. Louis preseason games, as any player would be subject to doing. And that has created exactly zero problems for the Rams. Point is: If you scout Sam in the preseason and like what you see, don’t go looking for ghosts. Bring him in, subject your coach to six or eight questions about him, let Sam talk to the group, and then the big controversy will disappear. End of story.

3. I think if you get the crew of veteran ref Bill Vinovich or rookie ref Craig Wrolstad, you’ve got the best chance to avoid a ticky-tack game this weekend. Wrolstad’s guys had a six-flag game (Washington-Tampa) last Thursday, and a 13-flag game the week before in Denver against Houston. Vinovich’s crew had a combined 21 flags in its last two games—Saints-Colts and Pats-Giants.

4. I think the 49ers set a dangerous precedent for their team in a few ways Sunday, bringing back guard Alex Boone from his summer-long camp holdout, as Adam Schefter reported. One, they chose to not collect his fines for going AWOL from camp despite having two years left on his contract. Two, they told him they wouldn’t put the franchise tag on him when his contract expires after the 2015 season. Three, according to Pro Football Talk, the club raised his pay over the next two seasons from $3.7 million to $6 million total.

With the first team offense looking offensive in Weeks 2 and 3 of the preseason, GM Trent Baalke obviously swallowed hard and did some objectionable things (for him) in bowing to Boone. But the protection of Colin Kaepernick was an issue, and Boone was badly missed. Boone rattled his sword and won. Will the next Niner unhappy with his contract (Vernon Davis?) be able to do the same?

5. I think Tom Coughlin, who turned 68 Sunday, had this reaction when I told him in camp he was one win from passing Paul Brown and two from passing Joe Gibbs on the all-time NFL victories list: “Wow. Really?” Then he said that was nice. And that was all. But I do know this: Coughlin loves pro football history, and whatever happens this season with the Giants, he has no interest in retiring anytime soon. Which begs the question about what happens to Coughlin if the Giants have a really bad year.

From watching them this summer, it’s possible. I think you have to wait to see the circumstances first. But club president and CEO John Mara does not take kindly to mediocrity. He was very prickly after last year’s 7-9 season, and there’s no question he liked the fact that Coughlin wanted to shake up his coaching staff. But if the offense is awful and Eli Manning struggles, I don’t know if Mara will say he wants back Coughlin and GM Jerry Reese, who have presided over two recent Super Bowl wins. My gut feeling is they would return, but we can’t tell until we see how the season looks.

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Jerry Jones (Jae C. Hong/AP)

6. I think the league is not going to press a tampering case against Jerry Jones for his remarks in the great ESPN profile of him about Adrian Peterson. “Tipsy and waiving his arms,’’ Jones, according to the story, got handed a cell phone with Peterson on it after a George Strait concert at the Cowboys’ stadium, and seemed to be speaking with Peterson about making him a Cowboy someday. Talking to a couple of people with knowledge of the league’s view of the story, I didn’t sense much interest in the league pursuing anything against Jones when he was seriously into the Johnnie Walker Blue Label near midnight. Reading the passage, I wonder how much of the conversation with Peterson he remembers. Now, that isn’t to say he should be talking to any employee of another team about anything other than having a nice day. And I’m sure he’ll get a reminder of that from someone in the league office. But it doesn’t sound like the league’s interested in whacking Jones for it.

7. I think Saturday must have been a tough day in the Ventrone family, with two brothers on the bubble. Niners cut safety/special-teamer Ray Ventrone. Steelers cut defensive back/special-teamer Ross Ventrone.

8. I think Saturday must have been a great day in the Fells family, with two brothers on the bubble. Giants kept tight end Daniel Fells on the final 53-man roster. Cards kept tight end Darren Fells on the final 53-man roster.

9. I think Texas A&M coach Kevin Sumlin won’t need to send out his résumé when he goes in search of an NFL head-coaching job. Teams will be drooling to get him. Maybe not quite Chip Kelly-style drooling, but it could be close if his team keeps playing the way it did in routing South Carolina the other night, putting up 52 against the ninth-ranked team in the country, on the road, with a new quarterback.
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To read the entire article, click the link and go through the five pages.
 

Alan

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"18. None of the Rams’ last five draft picks is on their 53-man roster, including Sam. That’s either a sign of a much better roster in St. Louis, or the sign of some bad drafting late."

Hmmmm. Up until this year I had been touting their late round picking prowess.

2014 Roster:
3 RB 7th round/UDFAs: Watts, Cunningham, Reynolds
3 TE 7th round/UDFAs: Harkey, Bayer, Cunningham
2 OL 7th round/UDFAs: Person, Barnes
3 DB 7th round/UDFAs: Roberson, McLeod, Davis
3 LB 7th round/UDFAs: Bates, Armstrong
1 DL 7th round/UDFAs: Westbrooks

Most but not all of them drafted by the Rams. Our much better roster played a big part in our lack of success this year but it's not the whole story. Sam was the only player I liked that they picked in the 7th. I also wasn't impressed with our UDFA class this year either despite the signing of Westbrooks. But then I have to remind myself that finding any gems that late in the draft is an extremely hard (and lucky) thing to do. I still think their late round drafting is their strong point.
 

fearsomefour

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Jan 15, 2013
Messages
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Look at those QB salaries and the names attached and there is next to no chance the Rams find a QB via FA. If Hill plays well and the Rams win what would it take to keep him? 2 years, $16M? Amazing how little help there is out there.
The key of course is if all the other pieces fall into place....the D, the young secondary, the O line and receivers....If the young team comes together and proves to be playoff ready they will need a QB now. The draft won't provide help quickly....FA will offer little....probably will come down to overpaying for a vet QB.
 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
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Messages
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Name
Rich
, Goodell said to me, ‘Why isn’t everyone angry at the judge and the prosecutor in the Rice case?'” Gandy says. “I said, ‘These are your fans who are angry. They are not fans of the judge and the prosecutor.’e judge and the prosecutor.’


I am, when you commit a criminal offense and your employer punishes you worse than the criminal justice system, there is something dreadfully wrong
 

Alan

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Messages
9,766
Thordaddy with his glass half empty:
when you commit a criminal offense and your employer punishes you worse than the criminal justice system, there is something dreadfully wrong
Is the criminal justice system dreadfully wrong or is it your employer? Or, do they act to balance each other? Being a member of the KKK might be OK with our justice system but is it OK with your employer?

We give up some security for our freedoms and having a means of discouraging or lessening the down side is a good thing. Sometimes.

Perfection is a goal but not a reality I'd want to live in.
 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
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Messages
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Name
Rich
Is the criminal justice system dreadfully wrong or is it your employer? Or, do they act to balance each other? Being a member of the KKK might be OK with our justice system but is it OK with your employer?

We give up some security for our freedoms and having a means of discouraging or lessening the down side is a good thing. Sometimes.

Perfection is a goal but not a reality I'd want to live in.

Well Al if something you do rises to the level of a crime ,you should probably lose your job cuz yer sorry ass is in jail.

The league is ONLY and I DO MEAN ONLY punishing him because they are image conscious,the criminal justice system is supposed to be there to actually protect society from criminals.I don't think the cheerleaders were on Ray Rices hit list they (the league) are ONLY protecting their precious lil "shield".

Seems to me that it's upside down here ,employers are routinely admonished there is a difference between on and off the clock,but you are always subject to the criminal justice system which I remind you is overloaded because of our misguided war on drugs.
So to answer your question ,I don't demand perfection and don't think I implied that ,I'd be satisfied if it came close to just making sense.
Goodel made an excellent point and in the process was really saying "who are we,we're only a football league,the criminal justice systems mission is to put criminals behind bars and WE end up being harder on the guy................that's whack".
 

Alan

Legend
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Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
dhaab giving up too soon:
I stopped reading here. There is NOTHING good about giving up freedom.
You misread what I wrote dhaab.
"We give up some security for our freedoms..."
You're right, there is nothing good about giving up freedoms. That's why I said the exact opposite. ;) You can go back and read the rest of my post now if you want.:LOL:
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
"18. None of the Rams’ last five draft picks is on their 53-man roster, including Sam. That’s either a sign of a much better roster in St. Louis, or the sign of some bad drafting late."

Hmmmm. Up until this year I had been touting their late round picking prowess.

2014 Roster:
3 RB 7th round/UDFAs: Watts, Cunningham, Reynolds
3 TE 7th round/UDFAs: Harkey, Bayer, Cunningham
2 OL 7th round/UDFAs: Person, Barnes
3 DB 7th round/UDFAs: Roberson, McLeod, Davis
3 LB 7th round/UDFAs: Bates, Armstrong
1 DL 7th round/UDFAs: Westbrooks

Most but not all of them drafted by the Rams. Our much better roster played a big part in our lack of success this year but it's not the whole story. Sam was the only player I liked that they picked in the 7th. I also wasn't impressed with our UDFA class this year either despite the signing of Westbrooks. But then I have to remind myself that finding any gems that late in the draft is an extremely hard (and lucky) thing to do. I still think their late round drafting is their strong point.
In this deeper draft, I felt they overlooked several talented players with "character issues" in the later rounds, for what seems to me, were questionable picks....I get that Reid & Westbrooks had concerns, but every other pick, it seemed we overlooked some serious talent, from bigger programs...To load up on, Van Dyke, Rhanney, Gilbert and Bryant...UDFA's usually go where they have a better chance & are comfortable. So I really can't say why the udfa's are who they are. But the 6th, an 7th rounders...all on the scouts & management.
 

Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
Thordaddy with this:
Well Al if something you do rises to the level of a crime ,you should probably lose your job cuz yer sorry ass is in jail.


The league is ONLY and I DO MEAN ONLY punishing him because they are image conscious,the criminal justice system is supposed to be there to actually protect society from criminals.I don't think the cheerleaders were on Ray Rices hit list they (the league) are ONLY protecting their precious lil "shield".

Seems to me that it's upside down here ,employers are routinely admonished there is a difference between on and off the clock,but you are always subject to the criminal justice system which I remind you is overloaded because of our misguided war on drugs.

So to answer your question ,I don't demand perfection and don't think I implied that ,I'd be satisfied if it came close to just making sense.
Goodel made an excellent point and in the process was really saying "who are we,we're only a football league,the criminal justice systems mission is to put criminals behind bars and WE end up being harder on the guy................that's whack".
So I'll answer each of those paragraphs and read your reply but then I'm done here because while this relates to a football incident, it's moving away from football. We can continue in a PM if you're still interested.

So here goes. In Technicolor.

Committing a crime and getting convicted of a crime are two different things but with that said, I mostly agree with that.

Well now you're just bashing the NFL. Probably rightfully so but I'll respond to what I see as the underlying issue. It really doesn't matter why they're doing the right thing, it's the bottom line that counts IMO. Did it matter that many businesses complied with civil rights laws and served you no matter what your color only because they had too or was the fact that they couldn't exclude you the important thing? Not to mention that over time, it became the norm for even the medium core racist.

I disagree with your black and white assertion that things are upside down. Some things are a priority in a work situation and some things are a priority in a societal situation (to the law). I see that as a good thing in most cases.

Example 1: You're gay and a Christian minister. If the religious texts I believe in are against homosexuality then why should I let you be a minister in my church if I'm one of the church elders? As far as the law is concerned you're good to go. As far as your congregation goes you're toast and rightfully so. Start your own religion or find a bunch of like minded people who believe in your religion except for that part.

Example 2: Illegally protesting at abortion clinics is a concern to the law but is probably of no concern to your congregation even if you're their minister.

Which of those two examples are upside down?

Employers usually have a stricter view of your activities than the law does and rightfully so. Especially in high profile jobs. Racist majority owners of a basketball team will not only adversely effect the profits of the rest of the share holders, it will adversely effect the perception of your city and community. But...it's one of our freedoms to be a racist and nobody wants that freedom to be abridged.

The bottom line here is that employers usually conform to the local/regional and general societal norms which of course are much more extensive than the legal ones.

I didn't imply that you did. That was part of my reasoning process. And yes, lots of stuff isn't fair and that's why the goal of perfection is still there and out of reach. Doesn't mean we should throw out the baby with the bath water. Again that's part of my reasoning process. Look how far we've come regarding misconduct in the NFL. One step at a time.
 
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Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
LACHAMP46 not liking some of the decisions:
In this deeper draft, I felt they overlooked several talented players with "character issues" in the later rounds, for what seems to me, were questionable picks....I get that Reid & Westbrooks had concerns, but every other pick, it seemed we overlooked some serious talent, from bigger programs...To load up on, Van Dyke, Rhanney, Gilbert and Bryant...UDFA's usually go where they have a better chance & are comfortable. So I really can't say why the udfa's are who they are. But the 6th, an 7th rounders...all on the scouts & management.
I wasn't able to do much research on all the prospects this year. All I know was when I read what there was about the 7th rounders (except Sam) and UDFAs, I wasn't as impressed with them like I was the ones picked in the prior two years. Especially in what was supposed to be such a deep draft. Maybe like you said, it was because they didn't take enough chances.

As for the 6th round picks. I have no problem with them picking E.J. Gaines or Gilbert. I like both of them. Gaines might be a find and Gilbert has the tools that he didn't get much chance to show/develop.
 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
So I'll answer each of those paragraphs and read your reply but then I'm done here because while this relates to a football incident, it's moving away from football. We can continue in a PM if you're still interested.

So here goes. In Technicolor.

Committing a crime and getting convicted of a crime are two different things but with that said, I mostly agree with that.

Well now you're just bashing the NFL. Probably rightfully so but I'll respond to what I see as the underlying issue. It really doesn't matter why they're doing the right thing, it's the bottom line that counts IMO. Did it matter that many businesses complied with civil rights laws and served you no matter what your color only because they had too or was the fact that they couldn't exclude you the important thing? Not to mention that over time, it became the norm for even the medium core racist.

I disagree with your black and white assertion that things are upside down. Some things are a priority in a work situation and some things are a priority in a societal situation (to the law). I see that as a good thing in most cases.

Example 1: You're gay and a Christian minister. If the religious texts I believe in are against homosexuality then why should I let you be a minister in my church if I'm one of the church elders? As far as the law is concerned you're good to go. As far as your congregation goes you're toast and rightfully so. Start your own religion or find a bunch of like minded people who believe in your religion except for that part.

Example 2: Illegally protesting at abortion clinics is a concern to the law but is probably of no concern to your congregation even if you're their minister.

Which of those two examples are upside down?

Employers usually have a stricter view of your activities than the law does and rightfully so. Especially in high profile jobs. Racist majority owners of a basketball team will not only adversely effect the profits of the rest of the share holders, it will adversely effect the perception of your city and community. But...it's one of our freedoms to be a racist and nobody wants that freedom to be abridged.

The bottom line here is that employers usually conform to the local/regional and general societal norms which of course are much more extensive than the legal ones.

I didn't imply that you did. That was part of my reasoning process. And yes, lots of stuff isn't fair and that's why the goal of perfection is still there and out of reach. Doesn't mean we should throw out the baby with the bath water. Again that's part of my reasoning process. Look how far we've come regarding misconduct in the NFL. One step at a time.
FOUL AL you can't plunge into all those subjects and THEN run off to PM,not fair play my brother not at all.
So FWIW discussion over
 

Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
Thordaddy talking about fairness:
FOUL AL you can't plunge into all those subjects and THEN run off to PM,not fair play my brother not at all.
I disagree but I'll defer to your viewpoint. Let's tango bro. Take a couple of free throws and hit me with your best shots. ;)
Couldn't find a live version I liked. :(
 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
NAh said my peace, i got nuthin' to prove ,just sayin ya can't launch that much rhetoric and then invite the response to PM if you wanted it there PM was where to post THAT.
 

Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
Thordaddy not actually reading my post:
ya can't launch that much rhetoric and then invite the response to PM if you wanted it there PM was where to post THAT.
I didn't ask you to respond to my post in a PM Rich.

"So I'll answer each of those paragraphs and read your reply but then I'm done here because while this relates to a football incident, it's moving away from football. We can continue in a PM if you're still interested."

I specifically asked you to reply to my post in public. I even bolded that. So exactly where did I ask you to respond to my post in a PM? I was talking about any conversation AFTER your response. I did that because this conversation is devolving into something that is probably of no interest to any of the other posters.

I could have replied to you via PM from the start but as I said,it did relate to the incident that was about that concerned the NFL. I merely didn't want to have a long discourse about matters that would interest only us.
 

Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
flv with his color preferences:
You could have toned down the pink - maybe a less bright shade. That's just nasty.
We used to have many more colors than we do now. I can't use the reds because I use red in the first sentence when I quote someone. I can't use blues because of our "blue font " thing and I want something that will stand out in my Welcome posts so the dark colors are out. I can't see yellow or orange very well so I'm limited to green, pink or purple and in their darkest shades. Not my favorite colors either. As my wife frequently tells me, I've got to work with the materials available. :seizure: :LOL:
 

Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
flv with helpful tips:
You can post in any shade of colour you wish. You select another colour as normal then edit it with the 'use BB code editor' button, (it's the 'Y' button at the top right of your post). The post will show 'color = 6 digit hex code'. You can change that 6 digit hex code to any viable colour you like. For example you can change this to this or this. You can even choose this. About 2 years ago I created about 25 colour co-ordinated skins on another forum. I found this tool invaluable for getting the exact colour shades I wanted.:

www.2createawebsite.com/build/hex-colors.html


The tool is half way down the page.
You are, of course, free to continue with bight pink. It's fine when used with 'bold' and your 'Welcome' posts are great. :) (It has no effect on smilies). :D
That's all great stuff flv and I really appreciate your tips. :) I'd just love to be able to do stuff like that but I have some pretty major vision problems. The government has designated me "legally blind" and consider me disabled. I don't conform to their normal standard of having only 20/200 vision in my best eye but I make up for that in other ways. I have double vision and a blind spot that starts at my focal point and extends to the 4th and part of the 3rd quadrant of my vision field. I can only read something using my peripheral vision and I'm unable to access many of the features of this site much less branch out into new horizons. :LOL: If I look at a single word, no matter how long or short it is, I can only see the last half of it. I could probably eventually manage to do anything that the rest of you guys could do but the strain on my eyes would be prohibitive. As it is, I'm forced to take at least two naps a day to rest my eye muscles and even then I've lately been forced to cut back on my reading. I only read about half the threads here now.

I'm only mentioning this because with all the new members here I'd like to make a request I've made before to the posters who've been here for some time. Please don't immediately reply to one of my posts as I can't see what I'm typing until after I type it. This usually requires me to make extensive edits after I post something. If you don't give me a minute or two before you quote me you might be quoting something that isn't all that close to what I really wanted to say/my final version.

Also, I sometimes misread what posters say because when you're using your peripheral vision to read you're not actually looking at every word on the page. I'm "reading" several words at once. It's very similar to the techniques used when speed reading. Comprehension of 95% is pretty good but it only takes missing one word or a comma to change the meaning a a sentence. So I'll apologize in advance for the times that will inevitably happen. :palm: :LOL:
 

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
21,801
Cincinnati—Devon Still was cut Saturday by the Bengals. Another wasted pick.

I like Peter King in general but in this case he needs to look a little further into the situation. Devon Stills 4 year old daughter was diagnosed with neuroblastoma, a form of brain cancer. He immediately was so distraught that he wanted to retire, stating that there is no way he could be playing football while she was going through what she was about to go through. I don't fault the guy.

A thing I think I think: King looks like a dick this week.