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Peter King: Bills Training Camp Report - Watkins Wows

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by Prime Time, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. DCH This IS my 'oh' face.

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    Fair enough. I like the way it turned out, and wanted Robinson more than any other player in the draft, but I can understand why you could prefer your scenario. My ideal scenario pre-draft was Robinson at 2 and then Justin Gilbert or Darqueze Dennard at 13. I love the way our draft turned out, though, and didn't expect Donald to get out of the top 10.
     
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  2. badnews Member

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    Watkins was never the missing piece to our offense, imo.
    What he excels at (short and intermediate passes) is something we are not lacking.
    In fact we drafted someone last year in the top 10 to do just that.

    What we really need to get the deep passes working is a solid o line.
    We got the best o-line man in the draft and we couldn't have had we taken Sammy "Screen" Watkins, imo.

    I don't consider Donald a luxury pick.
    That was an opportunity pick, and we jumped on it!
     
    #62
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  3. jjab360 Well-Known Member

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    I've debated more times than I can count, but coming from someone who's watched almost every snap Watkins has taken, he's overrated. His physicality is nowhere near Demaryius Thomas and he does not have elite hands. He has good hands with a penchant for concentration drops. Yet another aspect of Sammy Watkins that has been overhyped and overrated throughout the draft process.
     
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  4. Athos Well-Known Member

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    And I consider bullcrap on that designation. But we'll see where it counts when the NFL lights go up. I maintain he'll be a 1200+ yard WR who averages 6-10 TD seasons.
     
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  5. Rams and Gators Well-Known Member Pit Boss

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    If they'd been better than awful for the half season where they had their starter throwing to them then that would be completely fair, unfortunately they weren't.

    I was thinking of Allen in the third, but was half asleep so got my third round pick mixed up, Jeffery, Allen and Austin would be an amazing group imo but you risk losing McDonald. I suppose I'd settle for Jeffery, Allen and Nuk Hopkins instead, and we'd of still been guaranteed (with hindsight) McDonald.
     
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  6. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily. Change one pick and chances are there would be other changes down the line.

    So were Desmond Howard, Micheal Westbrook, Peter Warrick, Braylon Edwards, & Charles Rogers.:D
     
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  7. Alan Well-Known Member

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    Another argument over wording? That's OK because I like English. :)

    So you used two terms, "developing" and "hone" in a way that would lead your readers to think they're the same thing. They're not.
    Both hone and refine are synonyms of each other and of the word "perfect". All three words (hone, develop, refine) are related to each other in meaning but where the difference comes in, is in degree. I'm not disagreeing with the notion that a huge percentage of WRs need to "hone" or even to develop their skills to really make it in the NFL. The issue we've been discussing here is whether there are players whose game is already sufficiently advanced that they "only" need to "hone" or "refine" their skills versus those who need lots of work (develop).

    I'm not using "develop" in way in which you aren't already intimately familiar with. When we drafted a QB in the 6th round, how was that pick described? A developmental QB right? Why isn't he described as someone who just needs to "hone' or "refine" their skills? You already know the answer to that so I'm no longer going to discuss the difference.

    What I will talk about are elite prospects. That three year development time for most WRs is also frequently used when talking about QBs, and yet when we look at Andrew Luck we see that he started off his career at a very high level and while he's very good now, he will continue to refine and hone his skills throughout his career and become an even better QB. Probably. I've been a metrologist for more than 40 years and up until the day of my seizure I was still learning and getting better.

    I can give you many examples of players at virtually every position who hit the ground running at a very high level. They are however, a very small fraction of the total. The only real question here, in my mind, is whether Watkins is one of those special players. I think he is and you don't. That's fine because he's not on our team, we'll know the answer to that shortly and more importantly, his performance this year will not change nor invalidate the fact that those special players exist. As has been said before by smarter people than me, we're all entitled to our own opinions but not our own facts. My general contention concerning elite players is a fact but my contention that Watkins is one of those special players is merely my opinion. If, at the end of the year, we see that Watkins performed like I predicted, I won't send you one of my infamous fruitcakes. You should be rooting for that outcome. :ROFLMAO:

    http://thesaurus.com/browse/hone
    perfect
    verb. polish; achieve
     
    #67
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  8. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    Gee, I hate that I posted the word "hone" since it was given so much focus instead of screen heavy use of the kid. But, I'd say that any kid who caught 70.3% of his receptions within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage needs to be "developed." Just like the other WRs already on the team.

    On a side note, I've noticed that many of the quick start types played in Pro style offense/concepts in college.
     
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  9. 12intheBox Active Member

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    Sammy Watkins may turn out to be a complete stud at WR. Even if he does, the Rams may STILL have made the right call in selecting GRob. I, for one, am excited to see Robinson crushing the line of scrimmage out there.
     
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  10. Alan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that part of your argument has much more sway with me than the other part of your argument. I understand what you're saying about how he was used in college and you're not alone with that view among our many experts here at the ROD.

    Watkins was the only WR (other than Evans) that I made any attempt to analyze by looking at some of his tape and I only looked at him in an effort to understand RFIP's single mindedness concerning him. I didn't pay all that much attention to what kind of plays he was involved in because that's frequently out of his hands. Of course it's sometimes because that's the only intelligent use of his talents.

    What I liked about Watkins was pretty much everything I saw. What you and jrry are pointing out is all about your expectations of how you perceive his steep learning curve will effect his play and not about his actual skills as a WR. Not counting his ability to run good routes of course because I consider that to be something that he can be taught and not something that he needs to have in his arsenal his first year if he can do what he does know how to do at a very high level.

    I think the only thing that might hold him back in his first year is the lack of any other good WRs on the Bills team. Since we're only talking about his first year impact, we'll know pretty soon who got this right. ;)
     
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  11. Alan Well-Known Member

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    I wanted matthews but I would have drafted Robinson over Watkins too. Let's hope all the pundits were right about Robinson's future.
     
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  12. LACHAMP46 Well-Known Member

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    It just sounds like McKelvin's first day looked like garbage...Maybe Watkins is a helmets & shirts superstar?:rolleyes:
     
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  13. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    No, he doesn't. Elite is elite. He'd have to have a top 5 pair of hands in the NFL in order to have elite hands. In a league with guys like Larry Fitzgerald, Alshon Jeffery, Calvin Johnson, Dez Bryant, Anquan Boldin, etc. I'm not buying that Watkins has elite hands. He didn't even have the first or second best pair of hands in his draft class. Jarvis Landry and Mike Evans both had better hands. And it's not particularly debatable. Both guys had lower drop%s, less dropped passes overall, more experience in traffic, and more spectacular grabs.

    How can a guy with the third best pair of hands in his own draft class have "elite" hands for a NFL WR? And he may not have even been the third best in terms of hands.
     
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  14. Bluesy Reppin' the Rams since 2000

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    We should just cut all of our o-linemen and sign a bunch of WRs to take their place. How will anyone stop us with an extra 5 WR's? Forget about snapping the ball.
     
    #74
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  15. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    Found this tidbit interesting.

    Rookie Seasons
    Aaron Cox - 590 yards and 5 TDs
    Chris Givens - 698 yards and 3 TDs.
    Donnie Avery - 674 yards and 3 TDs.
    Torry Holt - 788 yards and 6 TDs.
    Eddie Kennison - 924 yards and 9 TDs
     
    #75
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  16. Athos Well-Known Member

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    Had to google who Kennison was. Man. Took the dude 8 seasons to replicate a season like that in yards, and 10 to replicate yards and TDs in a season. Looks like he flamed out of STL real quick with injuries.

    lol. Ok. I'll give you Bailey but who is this magical 2nd and 3rd WR with better hands? I assume Pettis is one, which I don't think his hands are all that much better than Bailey, and Moe (who hasn't even made the team yet). (n) And Watkins does what those too can only dream of and I love me some Moe Money.
     
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  17. LACHAMP46 Well-Known Member

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    I believe he was talking about the draft, not the Rams team....
     
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  18. 12intheBox Active Member

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    Athos - you must be a youngin. Eddie Kennison was once the next big thing for this franchise.
     
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  19. Alan Well-Known Member

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    Much of that was because Evans couldn't get separation and most of those spectacular" receptions were winning contested balls. Winning contested balls when you're 6" taller than everyone else says nothing to me about hands. They also were thrown different kinds of passes. Of the two of them, I saw the complete opposite of what you did. I know nothing about Landry so I won't comment about him but from my limited research, Watkins had better hands than Evans. Although I saw less than half of both of their games so maybe if I watched them all I'd come to a different conclusion. Maybe.
     
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  20. dieterbrock Active Member

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    Vincent Jackson?
     
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