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OL or WR? Looky here...

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by RFIP, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    C'mon. If you are going to include Davis and his 11 catches for the Chiefs, then why not include Pead (11) and Harkey (13) who are in the same range???? Because it doesn't suit your argument, perhaps?? That's 11 targets (Rams) vs 9 targets (Chiefs) in the same receptions range. And 11 > 9.

    And yes, they had 41 more catches (on 40 more passing attempts). But, wouldn't the Rams targets have more yards if they had those receptions? Even if they only completed 1/2 of the extra attempts that still get them more yards. That is, not unless they all went for no yards at all.
     
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  2. iced Well-Known Member

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    Actually I just grabbed what turned out to the top 9 receivers (was like the 6th or 7th page i think) and then made sure I grabbed the next top 9 for Rams.

    Dunno - fair to speculate whether or not they'd even catch it since they were one of the best teams at dropping the ball.

    Both Golden Tate (64 catches, 898) and Doug Baldwin (50, 778) out produced on less attempts...and thats with them juggling the percy harvins and sidney rices...

    You're not gonna sell me on this man when they're being so vastly out produced... Thats like telling me the Jags are fine at Quarterback and they don't need to draft one (speaking of which, justin blackmon had 400 yards in 4 games.... he had a lot less attempts yet clearly out produced what we have)
     
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  3. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    And that was a flaw in your theory of KC spreading the ball out more.

    And it's already been acknowledged that Tate and Baldwin out produced the Rams with less attempts. At the same time, they got more opportunities that the Rams WRs as their team yet again didn't spread the ball around like the Rams. If Seattle used another target who took reps or opportunities away from those two, then their numbers would drop as well. Wouldn't they? You've got to see the math there.

    Your main argument should be quality. Not yards, because they can easily be influenced by the QBs/teams focus. Don't believe me? Amendola got 666 yards in 8 starts in 2012. Does that happen if Bradford isn't keying on him?
     
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  4. iced Well-Known Member

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    Please - and i like how you've conviently ignored the lack of touchdowns that I've pointed out time after time... I mean the yards being this bad are one thing - but your "#1" WR not having a TD in 22 games? Please.

    And then there's the fact that 3 of them combine to score 6 TD's.. 6... Can't even break 600 yards, nor get in the endzone.
     
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  5. VARAMS New Member

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    All you have to do is look at last years draft - DJ Fluker (#4 OT picked) played better than the first 3 OT picks (Fischer, Joekel, Johnson). Point being you dont need to pick an OT at #2 - you can wait until pick #13 or even later.
     
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  6. blackbart Well-Known Member

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    2013 was Dwayne Bowe's 7th NFL season

    Percy Harvin played in part of 1 game in the 2013 regular season
     
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  7. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    It was their rookie year. After their 3rd or 4th year, if Fluker is still the best, the point would be relevant.
     
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  8. RamzFanz Well-Known Member Pit Boss

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    It will never happen. It makes no sense at this point.
     
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  9. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    Conveniently ignored the lack of touchdowns? My main point has been to simply to dispute your yardage notion. But, if you want to talk TDs, the whole team needs to score more. And if the ball is being spread out to several targets, I couldn't give a flip about who scores as long as the team scores.

    Plus, I don't believe that the team even has a #1 WR for your cherry picked stats. Givens may not have had a TD, but Austin and Pettis had 4 apiece. The TEs (playing in TE heavy scheme remember) had 11 unlike prior seasons (6 in 2012 / 0 in 2011). Just because the guy you labeled and want to score and didn't means nothing to me as long as the team scores. And all that said, my guess is that Givens has more yards and scores as the season goes on if Bradford doesn't go down as Clemens struggled going down the field where Givens excels.
     
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  10. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    Can you any find reputable personnel evaluator/draftniks that would rank any of those guys ahead of the guys in this draft class? Each draft class is different. BTW, Fluker didn't even last to the #13 pick in his draft class.
     
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  11. LesBaker Mr. Savant

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    Is the common denominator the QB and not the OL, or as you infer the WR's?

    Is that within the realm of possibilities?
     
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  12. nighttrain Well-Known Member

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    coming around to your thot Ice, SB needs that go to guy, which so far we don't have
    train
     
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  13. nighttrain Well-Known Member

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    Ya got me going back and forth, so confused right now I just want this draft to happen
    train
     
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  14. nighttrain Well-Known Member

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    about last season and Rams finishing 28th in pass attempts, SB out and Clemens in passing game gone and run game in
    train
     
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  15. Faceplant Well-Known Member

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    And there's the rub. Why are we arguing stats of our WRs after a season led, for the most part, by our BACKUP QB???????????????????????????????

    I, for one, think that Bailey, Austin, Givens and Cook can F up a defense just fine if the line holds and the run game keeps the safeties honest. It ALL starts up front. Period. Football 101.
     
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  16. iced Well-Known Member

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    Because apparently our starting #1 Receiver hasn't seen a touchdown in 22 Games, but yet that's some how supposed to be all on Clemens and the OL? So was that Clemens fault last year that Given's last touchdown was against Arizona (week 11)? Or are we just going to chalk it up to "rookie" year and move on.

    don't get me wrong - he was a rookie and I'm not blasting him for that. But I'm not for having a receiver who woefully regressed as your #1 and you didn't need Bradford to see that. Especially when there's a big upgrade in the draft staring you in the face

    here's some more numbers. Rams Drop rate = 7th, 30 drops. Seattle = 32nd, 13 drops.... Less attempts, multiple receivers with more production, and definitely way more points scored.

    lol wow. so that's your response to givens' lack of production is blame the whole team lol.

    the whole team doesn't score much because they're simply not talented enough - plenty of other receivers this season managed to score regardless of offense or qb.

    See Josh Gordon, Jeffrey, Justin Blackmon, Kendall Wright, etc. the list goes on

    How is this cherry picking? Is Tavon austin our #1 receiver? Nope. Is Austin Pettis, whom I have pointed out his td's? Nope
    Seems to me you just don't want to admit Chris Givens as our #1 receiver is severely inadequate and the position needs an upgrade.

    Lmao right - because based on what history tells you this? Givens last 12 games with Bradford (this season and last):
    -zero touchdowns
    -10 out of 12 games he had less than 60 yards, half of those games
    (6 of 12) he had less than 30 yards

    Seems like to me, to you Givens has very little responsibility for his league worst performance as #1 Starting Receiver and it's everyone elses fault... 104 Other receivers played with back ups and caught at least one touchdown - what's their excuses?

    What's Justin Blackmon's excuse for getting 415 yards in 4 games? Hell he caught a touchdown in that 4 game spat.

    The amount of excuses for this ineptitude is amazing.. The less attempts excuse is botched - especially since the Rams sit at #7 overall with 30 drops. (And the least attempted team in the league, also has the least drops, easily out produced the Rams entire corps..they got yards and touchdowns).


    Spare me the "spread the ball around" excuse. Snap counts for 2013:

    Givens - 779 (out of 1005), 77.5%
    Cook - 718, 71.4%
    Pettis - 580, 57.7%
    Kendricks - 577, 57.4%
    Tavon - 423, 42.1%
    Quick - 354, 35.2%

    ^ That is woefully sad when you consider Givens production and the rest of the other team.

    Quick atleast got a touchdown and he played less than half as much
     
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  17. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is my response given how the team has set this thing up. For the love of Mike, they don't have a #1 WR. They've even said that they don't have one. They've gone with a group concept which includes the TEs. Just because one guy YOU CALL, the team's #1 WR doesn't have the numbers YOU LIKE, doesn't mean that the team is wrong. Shoot for many of Fisher's Titans teams, TE Frank Wycheck led the team in receptions. In fact Fisher had 3 teams with 13-3 records where either Wycheck or TE Bo Scaife lead the team is receptions. So why can't Jared Cook be the leading target now?? Oh because you say he isn't a franchise TE.

    See Josh Gordon, Jeffrey, Justin Blackmon, Kendall Wright? All are very good players. No doubt about it. But, look at the offenses being run and how often they were targeted for goodness sake. (And one could argue that each on of them STILL had a better QB than Clemens, IMO). But, anyway, the Bears ran a 4 man show with Jeffery, Marshall, Bennett, and Forte getting 88% of the receptions (limited spreading of targets). And the vast majority of Blackmon's stats came in that 14 catch 190 yard effort in a blowout loss to the Broncos, where...now get this....Cecil Shorts was out (next WR caught only 4 passes/ limited spread). The other 3 games where Shorts played (more spread), he averaged 5 receptions and totaled 225 yards. That's good, but most remember that 67 of those yards came on the TD vs. the Rams on a blown coverage. If Givens & Blackmon could magically have changed places on that play would he not have scored, too???? And my goodness, Cleveland threw 173 more passes than the Rams and I watched Titans QBs lock in on Wright in the slot the same way Bradford used to lock in on Amendola.

    Am I saying that Givens is a good as those guys? Hardly. But, being on the field and being targeted are two different things altogether.
     
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  18. iced Well-Known Member

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    Please point out another starting Receiver in the league that has similar pathetic production that givens had last season? The only other starting Receiver who didn't catch a touchdown was Hakeem Nicks - and they just cut him.

    Yep, and I'm sure their "targets" had nothing to do with "getting open" something Givens has struggled with all season. For goodness sake, this is not a hard concept to grasp. The Rams also wouldn't need to spread the ball out and live by committee if they had actually had a dominant presence to rely on. It's not like all nfl teams with a #1 WR don't spread the ball either.

    Givens should not be the a #1, and I can't help but laugh at how you keep defending him as a starting receiver. HE SHOULD NOT BE - and to act like the Rams don't need to upgrade the wide receiver position is preposterous.

    Pardon me for having high standards - but I believe any receiver that accounts for 75%+ of the snap count SHOULD AT LEAST REACH THE END ZONE, especially when he has 20% more snaps than the next receiver. And the fact that it goes back to last season blows the whole "blame it on Clemens" out of the water.

    That tells me the position needs to be upgraded, SEVERELY. And There is talent sitting there, staring the Rams right in the face
     
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  19. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Sure getting open plays a role in targets. But, so does an offensive game plan, scheme, called plays, and having a QB willing to pull the trigger. And again, Givens is not a #1 WR. The Rams don't have one. They have a group of WRs. Would it have been nice to see him score more. Sure. But, if I'm in the redzone, I'm looking for the bigger targets, too. And that's just who got the ball, for the most part. The TEs, Quick, and Pettis. It was the same way last year with Gibson, Pettis, Kendricks, and Quick. Givens has played more of a Devery Henderson (in New Orleans) type role.

    And sure, an upgrade at any position would be a plus. But, what's preposterous is for anyone to claim to already know what the Rams have at WR when these guys are so young and developing.
     
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  20. iced Well-Known Member

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    Getting open, catching the ball, etc. And again - this is not just about last season but also going back to the season before. It would be nice to see Givens score period.

    And you don't have to call him a #1 but the fact remains he is the teams top receiver - he gets the most snaps, and its not even close (dam near 200 more than next highest).

    You don't have to be big to get open in the endzone - Amendola proved that to us too. you liked to point out his touchdowns and receptions so how does that not come into play here?

    And it ain't who got the ball - come on man, there numerous opportunities that givens literally dropped, including one that he could have taken and scored on I think in the niner game.

    This team needs a severe upgrade at Wide receiver, and i pray they draft Evans, Watkins, or bring in SOMEONE that is Competent enough to be a starting receiver.
     
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