NFL is Fixed

[blackbart]

So what? They never caught O'dell Beckham grabbing Ogletree's face mask.

So what? Really? Because they are shitty officials it is means games are fixed? Anything that happened after the facemask is because of that foul and should not have been a penalty.

 

[Ram Quixote]

So what? Really? Because they are crappy officials it is means games are fixed? Anything that happened after the facemask is because of that foul and should not have been a penalty.

That wasn't my point; that the refs don't see that because they're looking at the defender.

 

[Alan]

Stranger forgetting my age:
Are there any sensory input produced by this enormous communication system that you don't believe? Yeah, I realize you're kidding around, but you're also exhibiting a frame of reference and reaction that's been fed to you. Why must I be labelled just because I don't believe the line being fed to me? Why should I trust the NFL Machine? What have they done to earn my trust?

Nothing has been fed to me since I was about 2 years old (give or take 5 years).

I consider the media a smorgasbord of information. After some careful research you pick and choose what you like. When it comes to aliens in area 51 or the NFL being fixed you have to ask yourself 5 questions and then come to a rational conclusion.

5 questions:
1. What do they have to gain.
2. What do they stand to gain if they don't indulge in the supposed conspiracy.
3. What are the downsides, both financial and punitive, if they're caught.
4. What are the chances of getting caught.
5. What is my actual and not circumstantial evidence.

What is needed to have even the possibility of coming to a conclusion there is actually a conspiracy:
The possible gain must be substantially greater with a conspiracy than without one.
The chances of getting caught must be minimal or you only care about the short term(as in running a Ponzi scheme when you're an old man or planning to move to a country with no extradition treaty for example).

Those 5 questions must coalesce in such a way so as to make it worthwhile and reasonable. I've yet to read of any conspiracies put forth on this board that have to do with the NFL or the referees that meet the criteria I just listed.

Conspiracy theories are usually just an easy way for lazy people to get out of doing the hard work needed to find out why something actually is what it is.

Do you have credible answers for those 5 questions?

 

[blackbart]

Couldn't disagree more with this analysis. I've watched the play 10 times and it's CLEARLY a defensive pass interference on the linebacker, who isn't even playing the ball and doesn't have his head turned around, while he is face guarding and pushing Pettigrew. It's an easy call, but for some reason, the head official chose to waive off the call. The biggest problem I have with a decision like this is why the official doesn't even offer an explanation for why he's picking up the flag. That's ridiculous! At least tell the players, coaches and fans why you don't think it's a penalty anymore.

In any of those 10 times you watched the play did you happen to get a look at the angle show Pettigrew has a hold of the defenders facemask?

 

[Faceplant]

I feel I hate the cowboys and Jerry Jones.
I feel I hate the officiating this year, and every year since the "Tuck" rule.
I feel without a doubt there is evidence to argue that professional sporting outcomes can be manipulated through enforcement or lack-thereof of rules.
I feel in every play of every game there exists potential for scrutiny to find an infraction called incorrectly or an infraction not called.
I feel I am an idiot for loving football as much as do.....(I feel I am in good company on this point)
I feel the initial call of DPI was grossly incorrect by the official who had the wrong angle.
I feel Dez is an idiot.

I feel largely the same as you, haha.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

NOT FIXED
if it was there would never had been a flag on the play from the back judge - I mean was he not in on it and just made a booboo?

Just plain shitty refs
What's new? It's been this way all season

 

[duckhunter]

Hypothetically, even if the PI flag is picked up correctly as a non-call, it does not negate the obvious no helmet by an offensive player (Dez Bryant) who has zero/no business on the field. Automatic 15 yard penalty and first down for Detroit. There's no judgement there, it either is a rule or it isn't.

Are the rules just for some teams and not for others?

 

[duckhunter]

And in the world of conspiracies, the 30 year will trade with a 1 handle during 2015. Book it. Depending on what you want to give me odds on, how about negative passbook savings by some institutions for 2015? Oh yeah, Big banks are already doing that to some similar large corporate accounts.

Enjoy it while you can.

 

[Boffo97]

NOT FIXED
if it was there would never had been a flag on the play from the back judge - I mean was he not in on it and just made a booboo?

Just plain crappy refs
What's new? It's been this way all season

If it was that way though, the crappiness should balance out equally. All teams would get about the same number of bad calls for them and bad calls against them.

That... isn't happening. It's not even REMOTELY CLOSE to happening.

 

[fearsomefour]

I agree.





Where I disagree is that NFL does in fact like the idea of judgement calls. It allows them to have that gray area between incompetence and competence. It makes the refs the bad guys for everything that's wrong with the NFL. It also allows influence, rather than fixing.

Interesting take. Could be true.

 

[fearsomefour]

Ah, the old "too many people would have to be in on it" argument again. I love this one. As if it would be SO difficult to have multiple people knowing about a fix without telling someone. Look through history, my friend. There are many different examples of numerous people being in on conspiracies who never said a word about them to anyone.

True I suppose.
Still does not make the idea of fixing games in an obvious way logical or sensible.

 

[Ramathon]

The thing about this is it was actually announced by the referee as a penalty... and then the flag was picked up.

It was such a blatant foul...what could have possibly made the official over rule the call? .....

***Supposedly***, the ref who made the original call spoke to another ref after throwing the original flag (and announcing the penalty). The 2nd ref ***supposedly*** had a better view of the play and said there was no interference.

That was the explanation I heard on Mike&Mike this am.

 

[Ramathon]

All due respect here my friend, I hate that logic. If the correct call had been made, the Lions would not have been scrambling with a 2 minute offense. I believe that had they got close to scoring, the ref's would have found a way to call a holding penalty to thwart Detroit. The Ref's, and perhaps the league decided to reward the Cowboys once again. It was truly a shameful moment for the NFL. A stand needs to be taken now, because the next time "America's Team" steamrolls the rules it may hurt our Rams. Oh wait, it already did.

The fix is in!

Once again??? This is the first Cowboys playoff win since 2009, and 2nd since their last SB win in '95. Sounds like the league and refs have done a pretty crap job of favoring them for a long time in between.

 

[Alan]

duckhunter having trouble with math:
Depending on what you want to give me odds on, how about negative passbook savings by some institutions for 2015?

I disagreed with everything you said in your last post but most of your points require an extensive explanation to debunk. Except the one I'm quoting.

We're in a recession and the government's prime interest rate is effectively at 0%. I won't go into the reasons why it's so except to say that by pumping all that money into the economy we're not in the horrendous shape that Europe and most of the rest of the world is. Supply and demand (I assume you like capitalism?) insures that the banks (they aren't philanthropic organizations you know ) have no need to pay savings accounts (where they normally get much of their money to lend) any interest because the supply of "free" money from the government is virtually limitless and the demand (borrowers) is small. When the cost to borrow from the government goes up (causing the supply to go down) so will the interest on your savings account. Meanwhile, they still have to cover their costs of housing your money (unless you want to put it under your mattress) and those fees cause a negative rate of return.

Where's the conspiracy?

I can explain everything else in your post too via PM if you'd like.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

If it was that way though, the crappiness should balance out equally. All teams would get about the same number of bad calls for them and bad calls against them.

That... isn't happening. It's not even REMOTELY CLOSE to happening.

But if the back judge is in on the fix, why did he throw the flag?

I mean isn't the whole idea of rigging a game is to make it look seamless?
I mean how could you fuck things up any worse for yourself if things indeed, as you say, are truly crooked?


My thing is this -- if the back judge was on the take and he did throw the flag, why not just leave it there and try and fuck Detroit on an upcoming play in the redzone? Wouldn't that be the easiest thing to do considering they had already called numerous penalties both ways. So nobody would have accused them if on the next play they just call a HOLD and send them back 10 yards. That would have been the gameplan for the crooked refs, no?

I mean there had to be some gameplan between all three refs - thus a conspiracy - and if that's the case it is safe to assume that they would have made provisions ahead of time in case one of them fucks up and calls a DPI (or any penalty for that matter) when they are not suppose to.

I just don't see the logic in it other than THE TRUTH - which is a Ref who was trying to get the call right, blatantly fucked up, and fucked up so badly that he missed the previous hold and then Dez Bryant running onto the field protesting after -- i mean he fucked up so badly that this has become the perfect storm of fucked up penalties - and now everyone thinks the fix is in.

This is the logical truth -- these guys huddled together to talk about the call, the line judge said he had a better angle and it wasn't a penalty, the ref overturned the penalty and picked up the flag cause he sided with the line judge and the back judge must have agreed.

-- now if these guys were crooked why would they, in that huddle, even suggest picking up the flag knowing how much heat it would bring?
don't you think blowing the cover of the big mafia bosses would have been on their mind at that point, and the mere suggestion of making one of the worst calls of all time and risking exposing the massive conspiracy keep them from picking up that flag?

Anyway - refs are idiots. If they are on the take - as you suggest, or if they are just plan zebras, as I suggest.

 

[Boffo97]

But if the back judge is in on the fix, why did he throw the flag?

I mean isn't the whole idea of rigging a game is to make it look seamless?
I mean how could you freak things up any worse for yourself if things indeed, as you say, are truly crooked?


My thing is this -- if the back judge was on the take and he did throw the flag, why not just leave it there and try and freak Detroit on an upcoming play in the redzone? Wouldn't that be the easiest thing to do considering they had already called numerous penalties both ways. So nobody would have accused them if on the next play they just call a HOLD and send them back 10 yards. That would have been the gameplan for the crooked refs, no?

I mean there had to be some gameplan between all three refs - thus a conspiracy - and if that's the case it is safe to assume that they would have made provisions ahead of time in case one of them fucks up and calls a DPI (or any penalty for that matter) when they are not suppose to.

I just don't see the logic in it other than THE TRUTH - which is a Ref who was trying to get the call right, blatantly fucked up, and fucked up so badly that he missed the previous hold and then Dez Bryant running onto the field protesting after -- i mean he fucked up so badly that this has become the perfect storm of fucked up penalties - and now everyone thinks the fix is in.

This is the logical truth -- these guys huddled together to talk about the call, the line judge said he had a better angle and it wasn't a penalty, the ref overturned the penalty and picked up the flag cause he sided with the line judge and the back judge must have agreed.

-- now if these guys were crooked why would they, in that huddle, even suggest picking up the flag knowing how much heat it would bring?
don't you think blowing the cover of the big mafia bosses would have been on their mind at that point, and the mere suggestion of making one of the worst calls of all time and risking exposing the massive conspiracy keep them from picking up that flag?

Anyway - refs are idiots. If they are on the take - as you suggest, or if they are just plan zebras, as I suggest.

I think the problem here is that you're assuming that the only two alternatives are that everything is on the up and up, or it's a massive conspiracy. Personally, I don't agree with either extreme, and that kind of throws your whole argument there out the window.

I think a lot (not all, but a lot) of officials have their favorite teams and teams they feel "deserve" to win. Those teams get the calls and non-calls to go their way. The teams that the refs don't feel that way about... don't.

Thus, you don't require a massive conspiracy, but you do get the imbalance of bad calls that has been seen. Again, your theory requires that the bad calls are simply random, and thus should be happening for every team in their favor as often as they do against them. And that HAS NOT BEEN HAPPENING. At all!

As to what happened last night, there was a significant bit of F up there, no doubt about it. But that was an officiating squad that for whatever reason wanted the Cowboys to win and/or the Lions to lose.

 

[Mike]

PI can't be called on a tipped pass.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I think the problem here is that you're assuming that the only two alternatives are that everything is on the up and up, or it's a massive conspiracy. Personally, I don't agree with either extreme, and that kind of throws your whole argument there out the window.

I think a lot (not all, but a lot) of officials have their favorite teams and teams they feel "deserve" to win. Those teams get the calls and non-calls to go their way. The teams that the refs don't feel that way about... don't.

Thus, you don't require a massive conspiracy, but you do get the imbalance of bad calls that has been seen. Again, your theory requires that the bad calls are simply random, and thus should be happening for every team in their favor as often as they do against them. And that HAS NOT BEEN HAPPENING. At all!

As to what happened last night, there was a significant bit of F up there, no doubt about it. But that was an officiating squad that for whatever reason wanted the Cowboys to win and/or the Lions to lose.

Referees on the fix in a Playoff Game is by definition of "Massive."
This isn't like hustling pool at Me & Ed's Pizza Parlor

But nonetheless, I'm not suggesting massive conspiracy or arguing that that's what it is, but let's look at that for a moment:

With this scenario only, I'm saying there has to be 3 refs and outside forces involved. Cause these guys are by the nature of their profession (refs) under MASSIVE scrutiny. So there has to be some plan. That is all I am saying. Someone outside themselves has to place the bets - or the order has to be given by the NFL higher ups to skew things one way or the other. And they have to be super super clean with how they perform that task, especially in today's society with all the technology involved. It's getting harder and harder to pull something off. So there has to be something massive going on for it to be on such a big stage.

My point again is this:
Last Night's call is not a play that illustrates elite match fixing prowess because then there would have never picked up the flag. That's my point. (I gave my reasons above)
And that Last Night's call is only proof of a SUPER FAST GAME that is filled with a shit load of rules that things guys have a hard time with, and it is just an extraordinarily bad call, especially when there are so many judgement calls.

 

[LesBaker]

Are there any sensory input produced by this enormous communication system that you don't believe? Yeah, I realize you're kidding around, but you're also exhibiting a frame of reference and reaction that's been fed to you. Why must I be labelled just because I don't believe the line being fed to me? Why should I trust the NFL Machine? What have they done to earn my trust?

By the way, I'm not hiding

Enlighten us oh great Seer of the Unseen.

lulz.....

 

[LesBaker]

Can't convince someone who won't be convinced no matter what. Of course, you'd very likely say the same about me.

So I guess we're at "agree to disagree" again.

I disagree to agree then