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bluecoconuts

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Ticket sales mixed for NFL teams looking at L.A. market
May 5, 2015, 8:27am CDT
By Daniel Kaplan, staff writer for SportsBusiness Journal

The three NFL teams looking at Los Angeles for possible relocation by the 2016 season are having markedly different results selling season tickets in their home markets in what could become lame-duck, final campaigns in those locales.

The San Diego Chargers are 4,500 season tickets ahead of last year’s pace. In contrast, the St. Louis Rams are off significantly from their level of sales at this point a year ago, while the Oakland Raiders, the Chargers’ partner in a potential Carson, California, stadium, are about even.

“Based on new season-ticket sales and season-ticket renewal numbers, we are approximately 4,500 season tickets ahead of last year’s pace,” said Chargers outside adviser Mark Fabiani in a statement.

The team declined to specify either the number of season-ticket sales it had in place at this time a year ago, or how many were sold by the time the 2014 season began.

In St. Louis, where Rams owner Stan Kroenke has been up front about wanting to relocate, the team has seen full-season-ticket sales down by a double-digit percentage to date compared with last year, sources said. The team would not comment specifically on numbers but conceded that sales were soft.

“We have plenty of time to make it up,” said Rams Chief Operating Officer Kevin Demoff. “Our focus is on selling out our eight (home) games by the time the fall comes. Where we stand in April is not as important as the end of the year.”

The Raiders declined to comment, but several sources familiar with Oakland’s results said sales were going at about the same pace as they were a year ago.

In Oakland, fans have become accustomed to the team having one-year leases and possible relocation hovering over the franchise.

As for why St. Louis and San Diego would have such different results, there are a few theories making the rounds in NFL circles. One of them is based on public strategy: namely, that Kroenke may have alienated fans with his refusal to engage in new-stadium talks in St. Louis and the unveiling of a venue in Inglewood, California.

Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz last week implored fans to buy tickets for the coming season to show full support of the team and imperil any plan by Kroenke to relocate. Meanwhile, the Chargers have tried for more than a decade to get a new venue in San Diego but have disagreed with city officials over location and funding for any new stadium. Team owner Dean Spanos has said he wants to stay in the city and that the potential relocation to Carson is a last resort.

Also, were the Chargers to move to Carson, fans in San Diego could keep following the team — with Carson a relatively close 100 miles from San Diego.

Team performance plays to ticket sales as well. On the field, the Chargers have been a perennial playoff contender or participant in recent years. The Rams’ last playoff appearance was 2005; the Raiders haven’t been to the playoffs since their Super Bowl trip in 2003.

Of course, news that the Chargers are performing well at the box office could feed into sentiment that the market is solid and the team should stay. A local task force is scheduled to deliver a report on a potential new stadium by May 20. A source close to the task force, when asked what an increase in season-ticket sales would mean, answered, “If true, it would be a major statement on the support of the community.”

The source asked not to be identified because of the political sensitivities surrounding the task force’s work in San Diego.

The NFL has commissioned CSL International to conduct market studies of Oakland, St. Louis and San Diego, so that work will likely be factored in to determining the fate of those clubs for where they play in the years ahead. Those results may be available by the next owners meeting, which is in two weeks in San Francisco.

Teams have between Jan. 1 and Feb. 15 of next year to notify the NFL of a relocation bid for 2016, but the league may move that period up to the fall. At that point, the owners would have to approve the relocation by a three-quarters vote and assess any fee.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/...ed-for-nfl-teams-looking-at-l-a.html?page=all
 

2105

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Based on the info coming out of Carson this week..
Inglewood is far, far ahead.

We'll see if that means anything.
 

blue4

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Ticket sales mixed for NFL teams looking at L.A. market
May 5, 2015, 8:27am CDT
By Daniel Kaplan, staff writer for SportsBusiness Journal


The three NFL teams looking at Los Angeles for possible relocation by the 2016 season are having markedly different results selling season tickets in their home markets in what could become lame-duck, final campaigns in those locales.

The San Diego Chargers are 4,500 season tickets ahead of last year’s pace. In contrast, the St. Louis Rams are off significantly from their level of sales at this point a year ago, while the Oakland Raiders, the Chargers’ partner in a potential Carson, California, stadium, are about even.

“Based on new season-ticket sales and season-ticket renewal numbers, we are approximately 4,500 season tickets ahead of last year’s pace,” said Chargers outside adviser Mark Fabiani in a statement.

The team declined to specify either the number of season-ticket sales it had in place at this time a year ago, or how many were sold by the time the 2014 season began.

In St. Louis, where Rams owner Stan Kroenke has been up front about wanting to relocate, the team has seen full-season-ticket sales down by a double-digit percentage to date compared with last year, sources said. The team would not comment specifically on numbers but conceded that sales were soft.

“We have plenty of time to make it up,” said Rams Chief Operating Officer Kevin Demoff. “Our focus is on selling out our eight (home) games by the time the fall comes. Where we stand in April is not as important as the end of the year.”

The Raiders declined to comment, but several sources familiar with Oakland’s results said sales were going at about the same pace as they were a year ago.

In Oakland, fans have become accustomed to the team having one-year leases and possible relocation hovering over the franchise.

As for why St. Louis and San Diego would have such different results, there are a few theories making the rounds in NFL circles. One of them is based on public strategy: namely, that Kroenke may have alienated fans with his refusal to engage in new-stadium talks in St. Louis and the unveiling of a venue in Inglewood, California.

Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz last week implored fans to buy tickets for the coming season to show full support of the team and imperil any plan by Kroenke to relocate. Meanwhile, the Chargers have tried for more than a decade to get a new venue in San Diego but have disagreed with city officials over location and funding for any new stadium. Team owner Dean Spanos has said he wants to stay in the city and that the potential relocation to Carson is a last resort.

Also, were the Chargers to move to Carson, fans in San Diego could keep following the team — with Carson a relatively close 100 miles from San Diego.

Team performance plays to ticket sales as well. On the field, the Chargers have been a perennial playoff contender or participant in recent years. The Rams’ last playoff appearance was 2005; the Raiders haven’t been to the playoffs since their Super Bowl trip in 2003.

Of course, news that the Chargers are performing well at the box office could feed into sentiment that the market is solid and the team should stay. A local task force is scheduled to deliver a report on a potential new stadium by May 20. A source close to the task force, when asked what an increase in season-ticket sales would mean, answered, “If true, it would be a major statement on the support of the community.”

The source asked not to be identified because of the political sensitivities surrounding the task force’s work in San Diego.

The NFL has commissioned CSL International to conduct market studies of Oakland, St. Louis and San Diego, so that work will likely be factored in to determining the fate of those clubs for where they play in the years ahead. Those results may be available by the next owners meeting, which is in two weeks in San Francisco.

Teams have between Jan. 1 and Feb. 15 of next year to notify the NFL of a relocation bid for 2016, but the league may move that period up to the fall. At that point, the owners would have to approve the relocation by a three-quarters vote and assess any fee.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/...ed-for-nfl-teams-looking-at-l-a.html?page=all

This is easily explainable.

1. They know Carson is a long shot compared to Inglewood.
2. They know their owners want to stay regardless and we pretty much know our owner wants more money.
3. The Chargers and Raiders don't have to gall to schedule training camp practice in the area they are threatening to move to and then cry "coincidence".
4. The SD and Oakland fan bases don't have repeated media stories overshadowing every freaking move they make. I didn't hear any media crying about Los Angeles Raiders webpages, or hear future Los Angeles Chargers at the beginning of every news story.
5. We wisely this time require a team to commit to this city before we are willing to build. Nobody's going to give that before opening day kick off.
 

Goose

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Vincent Bonsignore, of the LA Daily News, and Jason Cole, of Bleacher Report, joined Fred Roggin today to share their theories on what might happen in the always fluid game of NFL Musical Chairs.

http://kfwbam.com/2015/05/05/nfl-to...nsignore-and-jason-cole/#.VUmiPrrfXiM.twitter

Interesting discussions on the issue. Roggin is clearly one sided. Vinny and Jason make some good points. I feel like Vinny has been the most unbiased person beside Sam Farmer on the stadium topics.
 

bluecoconuts

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Vincent Bonsignore, of the LA Daily News, and Jason Cole, of Bleacher Report, joined Fred Roggin today to share their theories on what might happen in the always fluid game of NFL Musical Chairs.

http://kfwbam.com/2015/05/05/nfl-to...nsignore-and-jason-cole/#.VUmiPrrfXiM.twitter

Interesting discussions on the issue. Roggin is clearly one sided. Vinny and Jason make some good points. I feel like Vinny has been the most unbiased person beside Sam Farmer on the stadium topics.

I agree, I like Vinny, not a big fan of Roggin... Unfortunately he most likely has the most "inside" information in regards to the three of them, and he definitely knows more details and more than what he says. Ultimately he's also speculating, and he's still a bit of a douche, but he's a douche that is well connected and informed. He doesn't have such a hardon for Inglewood because he's from there or he's a Rams fan, he has a hardon for it because he loves to be right, and he really believes that's what'll happen based on what he knows.
 

Goose

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I agree, I like Vinny, not a big fan of Roggin... Unfortunately he most likely has the most "inside" information in regards to the three of them, and he definitely knows more details and more than what he says. Ultimately he's also speculating, and he's still a bit of a douche, but he's a douche that is well connected and informed. He doesn't have such a hardon for Inglewood because he's from there or he's a Rams fan, he has a hardon for it because he loves to be right, and he really believes that's what'll happen based on what he knows.

Well no doubt he thinks he is right. He definitely has an opinion. What I don't care for is he really doesn't provide facts to back up his opinion. Now I understand everyone is speculating at this point, as Vinny pointed out we don't have all the information yet, but he just throws up well I believe what I am being told.
 

bluecoconuts

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Well no doubt he thinks he is right. He definitely has an opinion. What I don't care for is he really doesn't provide facts to back up his opinion. Now I understand everyone is speculating at this point, as Vinny pointed out we don't have all the information yet, but he just throws up well I believe what I am being told.

Nobody really has facts though, we (as fans) have the information that is given to us, some in the media have more information to go off of, some do not, and ultimately only the owners, and the few others really have a somewhat clear picture. I do believe that Roggin has more information than the average Joe, and probably a fair amount of different media members. In turn his confidence makes him come across more cocky.. If he were to reveal more details, he probably loses those sources though, so I wouldn't hold my breath for him to do anything like that. He has more information than someone like JT for example, because he's talking to Mayor Butts, who is talking to Kroenke. Plus he's not afraid to ask the dumb questions (like asking the Chargers if Carson is bluff and they'll go to Inglewood, which has led to somewhat interesting tidbits.
 

2105

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Well no doubt he thinks he is right. He definitely has an opinion. What I don't care for is he really doesn't provide facts to back up his opinion. Now I understand everyone is speculating at this point, as Vinny pointed out we don't have all the information yet, but he just throws up well I believe what I am being told.
He doesn't have all the facts & is making his own conclusions.
I will say he had a lot of facts. He was asking some questions about Carson last week that proved pretty illuminating.
We still have no idea how this ends.
 

Hacksaw

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Nobody really has facts though, we (as fans) have the information that is given to us, some in the media have more information to go off of, some do not, and ultimately only the owners, and the few others really have a somewhat clear picture. I do believe that Roggin has more information than the average Joe, and probably a fair amount of different media members. In turn his confidence makes him come across more cocky.. If he were to reveal more details, he probably loses those sources though, so I wouldn't hold my breath for him to do anything like that. He has more information than someone like JT for example, because he's talking to Mayor Butts, who is talking to Kroenke. Plus he's not afraid to ask the dumb questions (like asking the Chargers if Carson is bluff and they'll go to Inglewood, which has led to somewhat interesting tidbits.
Fred Roggin. a Lions fan from Michigan has been a LA sportscaster on NBC since '77. He has numerous gigs around town and does the late night national Sports Desk segment on NBC's insomnia newscasts.
Jim Hill, a former NFL CB and who's brother Davis played for the Rams at TE, has been a top the CBS LA sports scene since '76.
Both of these guys are connected and both of these guys were the emcee's at the Inglewood presentation a few weeks back.
Roggin's statement that "there is only one owner, one team and one stadium being built" comments were very public and I can't believe that he would say something like that, on the record, if he wasn't privy to some bit of information. Bad for his cred if he's wrong.
He also had a TV piece the other day pointing to Carson being a 'smokescreen' while talking with a rep from Carson.
I too have never been fond of the dudes demeanor and agree he comes across as cocky.
 

The Ripper

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Roggin will have an out for his statements if the Rams stay in St Louis because if the Rams stay there will be a story created around the team staying. It will be a huge PR job based around that he's a Missouri guy and that his home state came through with a good proposal. In the end they will say it was the owners choice to stay not that the league forced him to.
 

Goose

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Nobody really has facts though, we (as fans) have the information that is given to us, some in the media have more information to go off of, some do not, and ultimately only the owners, and the few others really have a somewhat clear picture. I do believe that Roggin has more information than the average Joe, and probably a fair amount of different media members. In turn his confidence makes him come across more cocky.. If he were to reveal more details, he probably loses those sources though, so I wouldn't hold my breath for him to do anything like that. He has more information than someone like JT for example, because he's talking to Mayor Butts, who is talking to Kroenke. Plus he's not afraid to ask the dumb questions (like asking the Chargers if Carson is bluff and they'll go to Inglewood, which has led to somewhat interesting tidbits.

I understand he is connected to a certain extent in LA so I am sure he has some info. I just don't trust he knows or thinks he knows as much as he does. Also not to be an instigator do we know that Butts is talking to Kroenke or the development group?
 

bluecoconuts

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I understand he is connected to a certain extent in LA so I am sure he has some info. I just don't trust he knows or thinks he knows as much as he does. Also not to be an instigator do we know that Butts is talking to Kroenke or the development group?

Unless he's lying, yeah we know he's had some talks with him. During his reelection victory speech he spoke of a meeting with Stan Kroenke.

Even if it wasn't actually Kroenke, you have to think that Kroenke group knows his intentions, so if he's working with them, he's essentially working with Kroenke. Its not like they're talking to some construction worker or receptionist, its all guys at the top, guys who are sitting in meeting rooms with Kroenke on a consistent basis.
 

beej

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Unless he's lying, yeah we know he's had some talks with him. During his reelection victory speech he spoke of a meeting with Stan Kroenke.

Even if it wasn't actually Kroenke, you have to think that Kroenke group knows his intentions, so if he's working with them, he's essentially working with Kroenke. Its not like they're talking to some construction worker or receptionist, its all guys at the top, guys who are sitting in meeting rooms with Kroenke on a consistent basis.
with that logic you could say that Peacock has been working "closely" with Kroenke as well.
 

bluecoconuts

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with that logic you could say that Peacock has been working "closely" with Kroenke as well.

Yeah, he's been working with Demoff. Slightly different, but yeah, I wouldn't deny that. The biggest difference is one is voluntary, the other apparently not quite as much.
 

MrMotes

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Kroenke talked for an hour???? what did he say?

How would i know?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-nfl-stadium-proposals-20150422-story.html

St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke is backing the Inglewood project, while St. Louis is making a proposal to keep the Rams there. The San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders have joined forces on a Carson alternative to Kroenke’s plan.

St. Louis went first, giving a half-hour presentation, followed by hourlong presentations by Kroenke and by the twosome of Chargers owner Dean Spanos and Raiders owner Mark Davis.
 

RamzFanz

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The oddest thing about this is, at this point, who would ever want Stan to own their team? If he screws
STL after all of his promises and after we begin building a stadium, why would LA trust him? If he stays, after trying to move, we will hate him.

Personally I think he's bluffing. Inglewood is slated to be a stadium OR retail. I think he's just getting STL to build, which is a dick move after all we've done for a crappy team. The rich get richer.

No legacy of greatness for you Stan. When you die, you'll be an NFL footnote.
 

bluecoconuts

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The oddest thing about this is, at this point, who would ever want Stan to own their team? If he screws
STL after all of his promises and after we begin building a stadium, why would LA trust him? If he stays, after trying to move, we will hate him.

Personally I think he's bluffing. Inglewood is slated to be a stadium OR retail. I think he's just getting STL to build, which is a dick move after all we've done for a crappy team. The rich get richer.

No legacy of greatness for you Stan. When you die, you'll be an NFL footnote.

Main reason why LA would trust him is after 2 billion dollars, why would he leave? Plus it's probably a 30 year lease (although I'm not sure how that works if he owns everything, naming rights maybe?)... I don't think Stan lives long enough to see that lease end.
 

beej

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The oddest thing about this is, at this point, who would ever want Stan to own their team? If he screws
STL after all of his promises and after we begin building a stadium, why would LA trust him? If he stays, after trying to move, we will hate him.

Personally I think he's bluffing. Inglewood is slated to be a stadium OR retail. I think he's just getting STL to build, which is a dick move after all we've done for a crappy team. The rich get richer.

No legacy of greatness for you Stan. When you die, you'll be an NFL footnote.
If he decides to stay, I wouldn't have a problem with him. Hey! St Louis get's the stadium(not stan), improves a blighted area, and keeps the rams. I would take that. In the end, if Kroenke maintains ownership and keeps the rams here, he is "choosing" ST Louis. Because if he REALLY REALLY wants LA, he can probably lawyer up and get it.

I've personally liked his ownership style, right up to you know, when he bought some town named inglewood.
 
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