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RamBill

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Stadium plan advancing, but financing still uncertain, leaders here say
• By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_5f82e609-b66b-505e-a2bb-77c346023202.html

While conceding there’s a lot of work to be done, Dave Peacock and Bob Blitz expressed growing confidence that the St. Louis stadium plan would have all the boxes checked to meet NFL approval in the fall.

But as the leaders of the stadium task force pointed out on more than one occasion in a media update Friday, then it’s up to owner Stan Kroenke and the Rams.

“We’re going to take it to a point, but we’ve got to be met halfway,” said Peacock, a former Anheuser-Busch executive. “We’ve been clear from January, and we didn’t change in this message, that we’re trying to get somewhere in the $400 million range in public funding.”

An additional $150 million would come through sales of personal seat licenses.

“And then we expect $450 million in team and league (money), which is private funding,” Peacock said. “It’s, ‘Meet us halfway and this project progresses.’ ”

Of that $450 million, the St. Louis stadium group wants $250 million from Kroenke. If that’s the case, the league will chip in $200 million from its G4 stadium loan program.

Add it all together, and you come up with the roughly $1 billion price for a riverfront stadium on the north edge of downtown.

Will Kroenke be willing to participate if the St. Louis stadium plan is finalized?

“We have not had direct discussion with Stan Kroenke about that,” Peacock said Friday. “But the league in our discussions, and Kevin Demoff when he sat through our meetings, are all very aware of our construct from the financing standpoint.”

In other words, there can be no new stadium built without the private financing, and without a commitment that there will be an NFL team in St. Louis beyond the 2015 season. Kroenke seems intent on moving the Rams to Los Angeles and has been working diligently on a $1.8 billion stadium project in Inglewood, Calif.

Peacock said getting the public piece of the money — the $400 million — in place by the fall was achievable.

“We can do it,” he said. “There won’t be money in an account come the fall, but there certainly should be a clear understanding of sources and how those sources can be released. But again, we want $450 million in private investment. So we have to be met halfway before there’s any releasing of public money.

“We’re not building a stadium and hoping a team comes, or stays.”

Peacock said Demoff, the Rams’ executive vice president for football operations, had been involved in the St. Louis stadium project. But league sources have told the Post-Dispatch that the team’s participation had come only with some arm-twisting.

The Rams “have been helpful,” Peacock said, speaking specifically of Demoff. “It’s not like the team has been (unresponsive). In the market study process they’ve been helpful.

“They’ve been helpful in how to look at certain things.

“Stadium-wise it’s great to look at pictures, but when you look at square foot per patron in the club area, and how big are the seats. Things like this. ... they helped with. We’ve got a good working relationship with him.”

If the St. Louis stadium plan is finalized in the fall, the league can try to force Kroenke to stay, or try to bring another team to St. Louis, with the Oakland Raiders most often mentioned as a possibility.

As things now stand, the Rams, Raiders and San Diego Chargers are all interested in moving to the Los Angeles area. The Chargers and Raiders have partnered on a competing LA stadium plan (to Kroenke’s) in Carson, Calif.

The NFL wants a maximum of two teams in the Los Angeles market, so one team could be left standing empty-handed in this high-stakes game of musical chairs.

As things stand now, Kroenke’s Inglewood plan is seen as the furthest advanced, according to league observers, followed by St. Louis and then Carson. The San Diego and Oakland plans — to keep the Chargers and Raiders in their respective “hometowns” — are badly trailing the pack as evidenced by the fact that they were not invited to make presentations to league and club officials Wednesday in New York.

As the two-member task force appointed by Gov. Jay Nixon to spearhead the stadium project in St. Louis, Peacock and Blitz spoke in largely general terms Friday about their two major remaining hurdles:

• The assembly and purchasing of the land on the stadium site.

• The financing plan to come up with the $400 million in public money.

In terms of land purchase, the stadium group has letters of intent in place on the majority of parcels in question.

“A lot of it’s through option agreement,” Peacock said. “You spend a little bit of money, so you say, ‘Hey, I want to be able to pay X-price if this progresses.’ We’ve had great progress so far. There will be a good amount secured by midsummer, and we should have enough access to the land to get started on the project on its normal course of progress by the fall.”

The financing piece remains trickier and murkier.

“The financing plan, there are steps that you have to go through,” Blitz said. “In looking down the road on those steps, there isn’t a major obstacle there. There are just procedures that you have to follow to do it. And once we get through those procedures ... all you have to do is pull the lever.”

But at face value, the current state of the financial plan doesn’t look that tidy. For one, the St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority, the public body that owns and operates the Edward Jones Dome, has filed suit against the city of St. Louis seeking to avoid a civic vote on the use of taxpayer money for the new stadium.

“It’s never proper to comment on a pending legal case, OK?” said Blitz, the attorney for the dome authority. “But I can say that we filed that case because we are convinced that the city ordinance does not apply to the refinancing plan and the financing plan that is going into the new stadium. And that there does not have to be a vote to have financial assistance from the city.

“That’s all I really want to say about it right now, because it is pending in court, and it’s an important lawsuit.”

Blitz said they hoped to see the suit resolved by September.
 

bluecoconuts

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May 28, 2011
Messages
13,073
So I was able to sit down and actually watch the Inglewood video in more detail, most of it is just fluff, but it’s worth a watch.

Link to the video here for those who missed it earlier:

http://cityofinglewood.org/soc15.html

The first two hours and 15 minutes is nothing important, and then it gets into stadium/project information. Again mostly fluff, but there’s a few interesting bits in there. He says they break ground in December.

Fred Roggins (who I’m not a fan of) tries to get him to say the Rams are coming, he essentially says he knows better than to say that. Fred also asks about Carson, and he is careful to not trash the project, but does point out issues with it. He then says it’s not really a race, but the most interesting thing he says about that is that Carson likely isn’t ready to build the stadium until 2018 due t the cleanup of the site, which when asked “If you break in December you finish 2018?” and he replies “We play football in 2018”

When asked why not start building now, he says that they need to get all the permits and such, and that’ll should be done by the first week of December (which is a normal timeframe), but if it’s done sooner they can start sooner. He didn’t say anything, but I did find it’s interesting they will essentially be able to stick a shovel in the dirt as soon as the owners vote for relocation if they approve of a move.

He also says they expect the city to net about 25 million dollars per year after everything is said and done.


Now (at the 2 hour 35 minute mark) is really what’s worth watching. An architect from HKS (who made Lucas Oil Stadium, the Dallas stadium, and the new Vikings stadium) discusses the stadium, how it is designed, details of it all, and why they did it. Discusses things like the weight of the roof and stuff like that, very detailed and very informative, shows some slides. Apparently this is a sped up and watered down version of what they pitched to the LA committee over the week. At about the 2 hour 50 minute mark they finish the stadium and go on to a few details about the rest of the project, and say that the venue will be something that you can go to 365 days of the year, even if there isn't a football game, it'll be open and connected to walk around.
 

RamBill

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Messages
8,874
There’s a lot going on with the Rams these days. There’s a new quarterback, next week’s draft and the schedule is out and tickets have gone on sale. Of course there’s the whole stadium issue. Rams Chief Operating Officer Kevin Demoff tells us more.

Watch Demoff Interview
 

RAGRam

Pro Bowler
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
1,150
There’s a lot going on with the Rams these days. There’s a new quarterback, next week’s draft and the schedule is out and tickets have gone on sale. Of course there’s the whole stadium issue. Rams Chief Operating Officer Kevin Demoff tells us more.

Watch Demoff Interview

Is there a clip of Peacock on ESPN 101.1 yesterday anywhere?
 

rams2050

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Sep 7, 2011
Messages
588
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12757853/roger-goodell-says-los-angeles-stadium-projects-look-viable-potential-nfl-return


St. Louis stadium task force members remain optimistic



ST. LOUIS -- Leaders of the effort to build a new NFL stadium in St. Louis said Friday they remain optimistic about a plan they say would retain a team and help redevelop a blighted part of the city.

Members of the St. Louis stadium task force made their case directly to league officials in New York on Wednesday. Task force leaders David Peacock and Robert Blitz spoke Friday for the first time since then, though they declined to discuss specifics of the 40-minute presentation or the league's response to the effort to either keep the Rams or attract another team if owner Stan Kroenke moves the franchise to Los Angeles.

"We're going to continue down the path we're on," Peacock said. "There was nothing coming out of this meeting to make us change course."

The St. Louis group showed the NFL officials revised renderings and video of plans for a stadium along the Mississippi River that would cost around $1 billion.

Peacock lauded the stadium as a way to revitalize an area near the Gateway Arch. Right now, the land where the stadium would sit is made up of mostly abandoned industrial buildings and dilapidated parking lots, an eyesore clearly visible from Interstate 70.

In addition to the stadium that can be used for concerts, soccer and other events as well as football, the project would add 5,500 parking spaces, parkland and trails, Peacock said.

"Imagine what this riverfront will be," Peacock said.

Kroenke is part of a task force planning a new $1.8 billion stadium in suburban Los Angeles. The Rams are year-to-year on their lease for the Edward Jones Dome, and could leave as early as 2016, meaning the upcoming NFL season could be their last in the Midwest.

San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders have a competing plan to build a stadium in the Los Angeles area. Representatives of those two teams made their own pitch Wednesday to the league, related to their $1.7 billion stadium project in Carson.

Some believe the league wants two teams in Los Angeles, meaning that St. Louis, San Diego and Oakland are likely competing to keep one franchise.

Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon in November appointed Peacock, a former Anheuser-Busch executive, and Blitz, an attorney, to head the stadium task force.

A key issue is how to pay for it. Nixon and the task force members believe the bonds paying for the dome could be extended to provide up to $400 million for the new open-air stadium. Kroenke and the NFL would be asked to help pay roughly $450 million, and seat licenses would provide up to $150 million.

The St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority filed suit this month to get clarity on whether the bonds can be extended without a vote. Peacock and Blitz said they were confident they can, but declined to speculate about damage to their effort if the judge rules otherwise.

Support for another taxpayer-funded stadium is not universal. A Saint Louis University law professor has threatened to file suit if city tax dollars are used for the stadium, unless approved by voters.
 

RamFan503

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Name
Stu
I'm on a trip with my wife for our anniversary so I will just be skimming this thread for the next few days. CGI banning Dick IMO was warranted for a couple reasons. Clearly this topic was pretty much the only reason he was here and only after being banned by the PD. Second, I repeatedly asked him to stop saying he knows what Stan wants when there is simply no way he could "know" that and all it does is piss others off. Sorry but them's the breaks when you can't catch a clue.

Two quotes from: http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2011/12/4761_nfl_establishes.html
  • As under G-3, teams can repay the loan with club seat money they normally would have had to share with the league. They can now also use incremental regular ticket revenue, defined as the difference between ticket sales in the new stadium and average sales in the last three years of the old one.

Teams looking to build new stadiums without paying for them themselves are, naturally, thrilled — since this is money that they wouldn't normally get to keep anyway, it's effectively a grant, not a loan. (Unless club seat and ticket sales come in below projections, in which case they're on the hook for the difference.)

Chris - this came up quite a while back in the thread. The information in that article is incomplete. If you actually look up the wording of the G4 it does not allow for the owner to pay for it in lieu of paying his share of revenues. It is essentially a lien on the property that is the team an absolutely has to be paid back. IIRR it is 15 years or when the owner sells the team, whichever comes first. The loan is also at prime rate. Amazingly, in certain market conditions, guys like Stan can actually get better than prime rates based on markets and past performance. So the G4 isn't even likely the best loan a guy like Stan could secure.

no matter how you slice it @bluecoconuts , the numbers are not as high as yours

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...e2f516-dfb8-11e4-b6d7-b9bc8acf16f7_story.html


stadium cost: 985
985 - 480 = 505. take out the G4 loan, which is $200 to $250, and kroenke ends up paying $305 or $255.
I thought $100 million of the bond extension would be used to finish paying off the Dome. Regardless, say the city is able to come up with $480 all things combined. That $505 million that Stan has to come up with is $505 million. The G4 is UP TO $200 million in loans - not grants. I also think what Hack/saw was saying is something to keep in mind. I mean when was the last time a government project came in at or below budget? In my experience it is very rare and most come with a boatload of change orders and delays.

I'm not so sure he doesn't get any profits from it - that doesn't make any sense from an investment stand point... and there other uses for the stadium - soccer, concerts, etc. I'm sure he gets a smaller portion of that.

Wouldn't make any sense if he didn't get anything from it


Bonds are $450 million, someone posted it i think the last page. $450 and I think $130 or $150 for PSLs.. So they're looking to the NFL for the last $385/$405, before the G4 Loan.
Who profits from what could very likely be a big part of the final negotiations to see if Stan will buy in. I also think it is a prime reason for Stan to keep applying the leverage pressure. And yeah - from a business sense, it wouldn't seem wise to invest $500 million and not get a sizeable piece of the revenue stream generated from your investment. I would think a straight percentage per investment $ would be a minimum starting point because he also owns the team that anchors the stadium.

Also, that bond figure includes the payoff on the Dome - right? I believe the bonds would net $350 toward the new stadium.

Actually, the Rams get a healthy cut of all concessions in the dome on non-Rams events.

To say he can't get that in St. Louis is inaccurate now and is putting the cart before the horse for the future.
I wonder if those figures will ever be released. Do you know where to find what he's getting now?

to pay it back over time - and its not stan purely, the other owners chip in for the $200

I'd have to see that somewhere. Pretty sure that is wrong.

Not that I have any say in the matter, but it might be better to PM him directly, that way it's private. Typically it's better to gripe to mods in private rather than public. You can also contact another moderator such as @RamFan503 who has been pretty active and attentive in this thread making sure everything it as smooth as possible if you wish.
Good advice except that I may not respond to much until Tuesday.
 

iced

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Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
6,620
Not that I have any say in the matter, but it might be better to PM him directly, that way it's private. Typically it's better to gripe to mods in private rather than public. You can also contact another moderator such as @RamFan503 who has been pretty active and attentive in this thread making sure everything it as smooth as possible if you wish.

Exactly.. Blue, you and I have gone back and forth for god knows how many pages on this subject. Yet we've kept it civil, and open minded. Sharing opinions and engaging in discussion doesn't have to become a fight like a marriage :whistle:

BTW lotta respect @RamFan503 for help keeping things calm here. Can also vouch that he's a cool dude. That tampa game was a lot of fun lol

I thought $100 million of the bond extension would be used to finish paying off the Dome. Regardless, say the city is able to come up with $480 all things combined. That $505 million that Stan has to come up with is $505 million. The G4 is UP TO $200 million in loans - not grants. I also think what Hack/saw was saying is something to keep in mind. I mean when was the last time a government project came in at or below budget? In my experience it is very rare and most come with a boatload of change orders and delays.

Pretty sure its $450 from public money and $150 in PSL, making it $395 to the NFL - before the g4 loan. And the G4 is UP to $250, not $200.

Who profits from what could very likely be a big part of the final negotiations to see if Stan will buy in. I also think it is a prime reason for Stan to keep applying the leverage pressure. And yeah - from a business sense, it wouldn't seem wise to invest $500 million and not get a sizeable piece of the revenue stream generated from your investment. I would think a straight percentage per investment $ would be a minimum starting point because he also owns the team that anchors the stadium.

Makes the most logical sense - I would guess it would be percentage proportionate to the investment. But as someone else eluded too, Stan gets concessions and other things. Someone else touched on this in the past page or two - this isn't an area I have much knowledge in as far as this breakdown.
Also, that bond figure includes the payoff on the Dome - right? I believe the bonds would net $350 toward the new stadium.

Not sure - maybe someone can answer this?


I wonder if those figures will ever be released. Do you know where to find what he's getting now?


I'd have to see that somewhere. Pretty sure that is wrong.

yea that is - i skimmed over an article and it threw me off
 

iced

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Messages
6,620
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/opinion/its-over-the-chargers-are-done-with-san-diego/

It’s Over: The Chargers Are Done With San Diego

4fc57e806d6b9.image.jpg

Not long ago, the mayor’s stadium task force began arguing the Chargers were torpedoing everything it was doing. The team was doing this, they said, because its owner didn’t want anything to come together and wanted to move the franchise to Los Angeles.

I asked the group’s spokesman, Tony Manolatos, why we were even bothering with the dog-and-pony show then. If they’re moving, why not move on?

He said the goal was to win over the NFL — not the Chargers. Surely the other owners would force the Chargers to stay if we put together a reasonable plan.

This is why it was amusing to see the NFL come to town and tell the task force that, to win over the NFL, the group needed to win over the Chargers.

The messenger was the league’s lead executive on business ventures, VP Eric Grubman. He told the task force that if the Chargers don’t support what the mayor comes up with, this was an exercise in futility.

He also laid down two major conditions as part of a grand ultimatum. Perhaps the Chargers were shooting torpedoes before. But these — these new ones from Grubman — have sunk the ship.

First, he said the NFL and Chargers were no longer able to wait until November 2016 for a public vote on a new stadium.

If you want a stadium built, you have to take this news as devastating. He’s not even willing to say even that a June 2016 ballot would suffice. They want it now.

I’ve tried to make sense of timeline issues before, but this is simply unworkable. We have to have a vote, too many politicians have committed to it. It’s the right thing to do. And getting something together for a vote will take at least a year.

Then Grubman said something else that caught my eye and probably should have been the lead of the stories that had it. The U-T’s Nick Canepa described it like this:

“Grubman told them that, if stadium financing depends on development around the facility (which is what the committee is counting on), it won’t work, because it will take far too long to get it done, and bringing in a developer would just mean another mouth to feed,” he wrote.

The LA Daily News also wrote a similar take. If that’s true, Canepa’s right: It was a major setback.

But Manolatos told me Grubman did not say that. He said that the task force simply had to “eliminate the risk” of generating money for the stadium from construction around it.

“We already had plans to eliminate the risk,” Manolatos said.

Manolatos apparently got the U-T to change its editorial on the subject as well. The paper retracted its claim that Grubman had told the task force that “financing the stadium with the help of a Qualcomm site development partner” was unacceptable. That’s no longer in the piece (the paper did not make note of the change to its text).

Why is this such a big deal? Unlike other parts of the country that build stadiums, we can’t raise taxes to do it without a two-thirds vote. So to make up a big part of the difference between what the NFL is willing to pay for a stadium, and what it costs, the idea has been to squeeze value out of the land that surrounds Qualcomm Stadium and apply that to the stadium.

If Grubman said that’s not going to work, then the clock has run out on this game. The Chargers are moving.

But maybe he did not say that, as Manolatos is apparently saying.

I contacted Grubman. He refused to discuss in detail what he said to the task force, but he did say this.

“I believe I am on record, and in multiple places, that real estate development is unlikely to yield funding for a stadium, and thus it is not a track that offers a high probability of success,” he said.

Notably, Grubman did not try to correct either Canepa’s take or the one in the LA Daily News.

But let’s assume, for now, that Manolatos is right and the task force and mayor merely have to eliminate the risk of development to make the Chargers and the NFL happy. In other words, they need to prove that the NFL doesn’t have to worry about land-use lawsuits or recessions or pollution or anything that could possibly disrupt the money for this stadium.

That’s all!

Real estate development, though, is all about risk. Only two routes could possibly eliminate the risk: One is the city simply sells the land around Qualcomm Stadium and puts the money from the sale into an escrow account marked “For the NFL.”

By law, selling more than 80 acres of land requires a specific vote of the people — it might have to be separate from a required vote by the county. Two votes? Those are not insignificant hurdles.

Or maybe they sell 79 acres and avoid a specific vote. At $2.5 million an acre, that’s almost $200 million. Cobbled together with other potential revenue streams, it might be enough for a $1 billion stadium.

But it’s hard to picture a developer who’s going to give the city $2.5 million per acre right now for land that’s zoned for … a stadium. They want to build condos. Perhaps they’d pay that much for land that was zoned to build offices, condos and a hotel.

Changing the zoning requires either a long environmental review or legislation at the state level — or a vote. These are not insurmountable problems. But they involve risk and time.

The Chargers are now saying they can’t tolerate any more of either.

Perhaps a developer would put up the money despite the risk.

Any volunteers?

That might win the Chargers over. But they’re not being helpful. The Chargers’ Mark Fabiani told me he was pessimistic about the idea. They tried for years to find their own investor — remember, the Chargers could not find a partner in 2005 to develop the area around Qualcomm Stadium.

“We were advised throughout by the best experts money could buy. And so, unfortunately for us, we are all too well-acquainted with the myriad reasons why a development-based solution is likely doomed to fail,” Fabiani said in an email.

That’s the development problem.

The vote problem is much worse. Grubman told the city that it should try to pull something off this year. The NFL’s commissioner just announced he might move the deadline and window for applying to move to Los Angeles up. Once one team does, chances are others will. Grubman warned the task force that waiting until after January for a public vote was risky.

Even Manolatos admitted that was news to the task force and they don’t know how to deal with it.

“That’s a political problem that will be up to the mayor and City Council to solve,” Manolatos said.

Got your checklist? The Chargers will move to LA unless we give the team a plan to subsidize the stadium with at least $500 million in public money without the risk involved in waiting for a real estate development to come together and it has to be fully approved much sooner than ever imagined. A vote will have to be called and approved before teams start officially vying for Los Angeles.

Or the mayor has to change course and renege on his pledge to let the people vote on a plan. Maybe send a letter to the NFL apologizing for taking so long with its billion dollars.

That’s just to make the Chargers happy.

Laugh out loud.

Maybe the mayor could not satisfy the team at all and this was all a folly — an elegant trap he’s stumbled into. Or maybe the Chargers really would have gone along with a downtown plan. Though if time and risk are intolerable for Mission Valley, it’s hard to see how they would have been better downtown.

Regardless, it’s done. Unless plans in LA fall apart, the Chargers are breaking up with the city. The mayor just might have to decide if he wants to dump them first.
 

Hacksaw

ROCK HARD STUD
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
451
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/opinion/its-over-the-chargers-are-done-with-san-diego/

It’s Over: The Chargers Are Done With San Diego

4fc57e806d6b9.image.jpg

Not long ago, the mayor’s stadium task force began arguing the Chargers were torpedoing everything it was doing. The team was doing this, they said, because its owner didn’t want anything to come together and wanted to move the franchise to Los Angeles.

I asked the group’s spokesman, Tony Manolatos, why we were even bothering with the dog-and-pony show then. If they’re moving, why not move on?

He said the goal was to win over the NFL — not the Chargers. Surely the other owners would force the Chargers to stay if we put together a reasonable plan.

This is why it was amusing to see the NFL come to town and tell the task force that, to win over the NFL, the group needed to win over the Chargers.

The messenger was the league’s lead executive on business ventures, VP Eric Grubman. He told the task force that if the Chargers don’t support what the mayor comes up with, this was an exercise in futility.

He also laid down two major conditions as part of a grand ultimatum. Perhaps the Chargers were shooting torpedoes before. But these — these new ones from Grubman — have sunk the ship.

First, he said the NFL and Chargers were no longer able to wait until November 2016 for a public vote on a new stadium.

If you want a stadium built, you have to take this news as devastating. He’s not even willing to say even that a June 2016 ballot would suffice. They want it now.

I’ve tried to make sense of timeline issues before, but this is simply unworkable. We have to have a vote, too many politicians have committed to it. It’s the right thing to do. And getting something together for a vote will take at least a year.

Then Grubman said something else that caught my eye and probably should have been the lead of the stories that had it. The U-T’s Nick Canepa described it like this:

“Grubman told them that, if stadium financing depends on development around the facility (which is what the committee is counting on), it won’t work, because it will take far too long to get it done, and bringing in a developer would just mean another mouth to feed,” he wrote.

The LA Daily News also wrote a similar take. If that’s true, Canepa’s right: It was a major setback.

But Manolatos told me Grubman did not say that. He said that the task force simply had to “eliminate the risk” of generating money for the stadium from construction around it.

“We already had plans to eliminate the risk,” Manolatos said.

Manolatos apparently got the U-T to change its editorial on the subject as well. The paper retracted its claim that Grubman had told the task force that “financing the stadium with the help of a Qualcomm site development partner” was unacceptable. That’s no longer in the piece (the paper did not make note of the change to its text).

Why is this such a big deal? Unlike other parts of the country that build stadiums, we can’t raise taxes to do it without a two-thirds vote. So to make up a big part of the difference between what the NFL is willing to pay for a stadium, and what it costs, the idea has been to squeeze value out of the land that surrounds Qualcomm Stadium and apply that to the stadium.

If Grubman said that’s not going to work, then the clock has run out on this game. The Chargers are moving.

But maybe he did not say that, as Manolatos is apparently saying.

I contacted Grubman. He refused to discuss in detail what he said to the task force, but he did say this.

“I believe I am on record, and in multiple places, that real estate development is unlikely to yield funding for a stadium, and thus it is not a track that offers a high probability of success,” he said.

Notably, Grubman did not try to correct either Canepa’s take or the one in the LA Daily News.

But let’s assume, for now, that Manolatos is right and the task force and mayor merely have to eliminate the risk of development to make the Chargers and the NFL happy. In other words, they need to prove that the NFL doesn’t have to worry about land-use lawsuits or recessions or pollution or anything that could possibly disrupt the money for this stadium.

That’s all!

Real estate development, though, is all about risk. Only two routes could possibly eliminate the risk: One is the city simply sells the land around Qualcomm Stadium and puts the money from the sale into an escrow account marked “For the NFL.”

By law, selling more than 80 acres of land requires a specific vote of the people — it might have to be separate from a required vote by the county. Two votes? Those are not insignificant hurdles.

Or maybe they sell 79 acres and avoid a specific vote. At $2.5 million an acre, that’s almost $200 million. Cobbled together with other potential revenue streams, it might be enough for a $1 billion stadium.

But it’s hard to picture a developer who’s going to give the city $2.5 million per acre right now for land that’s zoned for … a stadium. They want to build condos. Perhaps they’d pay that much for land that was zoned to build offices, condos and a hotel.

Changing the zoning requires either a long environmental review or legislation at the state level — or a vote. These are not insurmountable problems. But they involve risk and time.

The Chargers are now saying they can’t tolerate any more of either.

Perhaps a developer would put up the money despite the risk.

Any volunteers?

That might win the Chargers over. But they’re not being helpful. The Chargers’ Mark Fabiani told me he was pessimistic about the idea. They tried for years to find their own investor — remember, the Chargers could not find a partner in 2005 to develop the area around Qualcomm Stadium.

“We were advised throughout by the best experts money could buy. And so, unfortunately for us, we are all too well-acquainted with the myriad reasons why a development-based solution is likely doomed to fail,” Fabiani said in an email.

That’s the development problem.

The vote problem is much worse. Grubman told the city that it should try to pull something off this year. The NFL’s commissioner just announced he might move the deadline and window for applying to move to Los Angeles up. Once one team does, chances are others will. Grubman warned the task force that waiting until after January for a public vote was risky.

Even Manolatos admitted that was news to the task force and they don’t know how to deal with it.

“That’s a political problem that will be up to the mayor and City Council to solve,” Manolatos said.

Got your checklist? The Chargers will move to LA unless we give the team a plan to subsidize the stadium with at least $500 million in public money without the risk involved in waiting for a real estate development to come together and it has to be fully approved much sooner than ever imagined. A vote will have to be called and approved before teams start officially vying for Los Angeles.

Or the mayor has to change course and renege on his pledge to let the people vote on a plan. Maybe send a letter to the NFL apologizing for taking so long with its billion dollars.

That’s just to make the Chargers happy.

Laugh out loud.

Maybe the mayor could not satisfy the team at all and this was all a folly — an elegant trap he’s stumbled into. Or maybe the Chargers really would have gone along with a downtown plan. Though if time and risk are intolerable for Mission Valley, it’s hard to see how they would have been better downtown.

Regardless, it’s done. Unless plans in LA fall apart, the Chargers are breaking up with the city. The mayor just might have to decide if he wants to dump them first.
Here's an article on par with this one. lol
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-does-not-care-about-rams-future-in-st-louis-042415
Man let's get to training camp so these guys have something else to write about.
 

bluecoconuts

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Exactly.. Blue, you and I have gone back and forth for god knows how many pages on this subject. Yet we've kept it civil, and open minded. Sharing opinions and engaging in discussion doesn't have to become a fight like a marriage :whistle:

How dare you say I'm civil and open minded! Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble!

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bluecoconuts

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Who is Scott Lewis (on politics)? He and Bernie need to get together.

Without reading the article, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the Chargers are probably the most likely to be in Los Angeles. Personally the biggest question is probably who they bunk with. Kroenke in Inglewood, or Davis in Carson.
 
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