1. To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

Looking ahead to 49er week

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by raised_fisT, Nov 28, 2011.

  1. raised_fisT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    139
    It's going to be hard seeing the comparison between the two teams and how far they've come / or how badly they've regressed, in just 1 year.

    I work with 2 die hard whiners fans and I just pray that I can at least walk in to work with SOME sort of pride.
     
    #1
  2. superfan24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    2
    I'm feeling the build up like it was against the Saints last month. I'm ready to see our Rams shock the whiners.
    And how did Singletary's approach work with the whiners? It was the complete opposite of Spags.
    Just a dumb argument imo
     
    #2
  3. Selassie I H. I. M.

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    1,845
    freak THE WHINERS
     
    #3
  4. bluecoconuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    6,769
    Likes Received:
    710
    "The 49ers team has the same talent as the Rams"


    No they're not, they have been the most talented team in the NFC West since the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl. They just didn't have a coach that was able to put it together. They're a very complete team, and have been for years.
     
    #4
  5. -X- I'm the dude, man.

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18,545
    Likes Received:
    8,100
    How very poignant. I'd say your act is getting tired, but that would just be stating the obvious.

    Superbowl XL1 had two of those most undemonstrative head coaches in the league facing off against each other. Dungy and Smith. Neither were yellers, fire dancers, cheerleaders, or anything of the sort. So what you're doing is comparing two different demeanors when you compare Spagnuolo and Harbaugh, and that's where it ends. Personalities do not define what a head coach is made up of, whether or not a group of players can (or will) buy into what you're selling, or how he manages an NFL Franchise.

    The 49ers are the same team, eh? That's absolutely false, but I didn't expect you to do any real research into the matter. You're just a fanboy of Harbaugh. Okay then, just say you're a fanboy. Your post is just embarrassing if you're comparing the two teams and saying Harbaugh is the sole reason for their success. Really embarrassing.

    For example, The 49ers have the following guys playing for them that THEY drafted between 2000-2007.
    That would comprise a team's veteran experience. At least 4 years, if not more. Got it?

    Brian Jennings (2000)
    Andy Lee (2004)
    Shawntae Spencer (2004)
    Isaac Sopoaga (2004)
    Adam Snyder (2005)
    Alex Smith (2005)
    Frank Gore (2005)
    Vernon Davis (2006)
    Delanie Walker (2006)
    Parys Haralson (2006)
    Joe Staley (2007)
    Ray McDonald (2007)
    Patrick Willis (2007)
    Tarell Brown (2007)


    The RAMS have these guys playing for them (2000-2007) that THEY drafted
    Steven Jackson (2004)
    Ron Bartell (2005) (and on IR)

    I'll give you the short version here. The Rams didn't draft well in 2005, 2006 or 2007. Not well at all. That has nothing to do with Spagnuolo or Devaney. Instead, it has everything to do with this team's complete lack of veterans and team leaders as the result of the previous regime's ineptitude. Two guys. That's all they have left. In 2009, the team had to be completely scrapped of all remaining veterans, because they were oft-injured (none are playing anymore), and overpaid with back-loaded contracts. They're all gone. The 49ers, on the other hand, didn't have to do that. They kept drafting relatively well, and they paid free agents commensurate with their talent. Paid them with rational contracts too. They didn't vastly overpay guys like Corey Chavous, Fakhir Brown, Wil Witherspoon, Drew Bennett, etc, etc.

    Armed with that information is one thing. But you're ignoring it. What you're doing is telling us that Harbaugh walked onto a team that had to be dismantled and then he built from scratch. Did he do that? Because I must have missed that story. See, the story I got was that he took over a team that was already built for success, but was being mismanaged. That's not the same as the Rams in any stretch of the imagination. The Rams are a team that's still, essentially, being built. You're also telling us that Harbaugh's demonstrative personality is the reason why he's a better coach. You spelled it out in hyperbolic detail. That only tells me you're very ill-informed.

    Going into detail over the differences between their offensive philosophy and the relatively small amount of injuries (comparatively speaking) would probably be an exercise in futility at this point. I mean, your mind is already made up, and it doesn't include any real facts. Displays of emotion are your measure of comparison. And that's just funny.

    So what's obvious is two things. One, you have no idea what you're talking about. And two, you just don't like Spagnuolo. Fine. Whatever. Not everybody does (like Spagnuolo). Now I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't enjoy someone coming onto a Rams forum and pimping up Jim Harbaugh and the Niners. I think Haile may have said that, but he's more eloquent than I. So, as a result, I'm going to ask you to stop doing that. Primarily because it's in poor taste. Secondarily, because you're not making a strong case for your knowledge of the two teams anyway.
     
    #5
  6. superfan24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    2
    Wow that list says it all- how much crap BD and Spags have had to clean up.
    What in that doesn't suggest the whiners should be a better team (as much as I hate to say it).
     
    #6
  7. -X- I'm the dude, man.

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18,545
    Likes Received:
    8,100
    You like lists? Here's another. Theses are the guys that are on IR for each team.

    RAMS:
    Jason Smith T - Starter
    Mark Clayton WR - Starter
    Marquis Johnson CB - Starter (by default)
    Rodger Saffold T - Starter
    Al Harris CB - Starter (by default)
    Michael Hoomanawanui TE - Starter
    Greg Salas WR - Starter (by default)
    Brian Jackson CB - Starter by default
    Danny Amendola WR - Starter
    Bradley Fletcher CB - Starter
    Ron Bartell CB - Starter
    Mikail Baker CB - Starter by Default
    Jerome Murphy CB - Nickel Starter
    Jermelle Cudjo DT - Rotational DT

    49ers:
    Josh Morgan WR - Starter
    Will Tukuafu DE - UDFA 2010 - not a starter
    Nate Byham TE 2010 Draftee - not a starter
    Curtis Holcomb CB 205 overall (last pick by the 49ers) - not a starter
    Dontavia Bogan WR - UDFA - not a starter

    Harbaugh is a better coach though, because the Rams and 49ers are the same team "essentially."
    Please. :roll:
     
    #7
  8. Stranger How big is infinity?

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    5,249
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    Very interesting list and comparison.

    So, if 2005, 2006 or 2007 didn't produce any tangible results (we have 1 player and 49er have 10), could one then argue that we're still 3-years away from having the depth to be competitive?

    I hadn't really thought about things from this perspective: of comparing this team's draft history to current playoff team's draft history. If this Rams-49er comparison holds true when comparing the Rams to current contenders, then I can see this as a valid argument in support of giving Spags/Devaney a few more years.
     
    #8
  9. superfan24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yep I'd say injuries aren't a factor at all. It is Spags fault he didn't yell at them enough to keep healthy
     
    #9
  10. superfan24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    2
    I only hope that Stan looks at stuff like this instead of the immediate results on the field.
     
    #10
  11. bluecoconuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    6,769
    Likes Received:
    710
    He probably does. I'm willing to bet he sits the front office down and says "You have one year to get this thing turned around."

    The injuries, the lockout, the new system, it was a perfect storm for a horrible season. Stan isn't stupid, he'll probably recognize that. If Billy, Spags etc, are fired I won't really be shocked, but I wouldn't agree with it. I expect them to get one last year.
     
    #11
  12. -X- I'm the dude, man.

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18,545
    Likes Received:
    8,100
    I don't think it means we have another three years before we're able to overcome injury to the extent we're seeing this year. I don't think ANY team overcomes that kind of injury and still wins. Maybe they win more games than the Rams have, but they don't win enough to be a playoff team.

    Further compounded by this was the inability to sign veteran free agents in 2009 and 2010. It just couldn't be done at all. 2009 there was no money, 2010 there were no free agents. This year they tried to shore up multiple positions at once, but all that does is put a myriad of new faces into schemes that they had ZERO time to practice. When you lose 1000+ reps due to a truncated OTA period, then you're going to learn on the job. And learning on the job is hard enough. It becomes harder when you're trying to learn the offense and defense that went toe to toe in SB XLII. Those are the schemes that took an undefeated team to the SB, and the defense that stopped it. This isn't Harbaugh taking away sight adjustments from the QB and running the ball relentlessly. This is two very highly complicated schemes. And it's supposed to be effortless with 7 free agents and 4 rookies on a team with a sophomore QB?

    I mean, seriously, people REALLY need to think about this. And that's all I'm asking.

    Is Spagnuolo flawless? Absolutely not. I have a HUGE problem with the way he's developing the roster, and some of his tentative game-time decisions. But I will NOT - under any circumstance - blame him for the state of this Rams team. Young, injured, full of vets who can't get acclimated, and full of rookies who haven't figured it out totally either. Built entirely from scratch (minus 2 guys) with two extremely bad years to be drafting high or trying to sign veteran starters.
     
    #12
  13. -X- I'm the dude, man.

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18,545
    Likes Received:
    8,100
    There's no doubt that he looks at the whole picture. I mean, if a fan can do it, I'm relatively sure he's doing it. And I'm sure he has several advisers who are giving him tons of information as well. It could very well be the reason he "spoke" to Jeff Fisher earlier this year too.

    Spagnuolo's contract runs to the end of next year.
    McDaniels' contract runs to the end of next year.

    This season was going to be difficult to get any real chemistry and continuity established given all the circumstances I laid out. I'm sure he knows that. I don't think it's a coincidence that both of their contracts expire at the same time. It would be premature (to say the least) to cut them both loose before they've had a REAL chance to implement the change in offense. My only question would be, "Does Kroenke have any faith in Spagnuolo's game management and/or roster decisions." If he doesn't, then we might see a figure head at the top to advise the Organization, and that person will have a great deal of say about what the *plan* is, going forward.
     
    #13
  14. Stranger How big is infinity?

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    5,249
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    Ok, you've got my attention.

    So, given your perspective, what are your suggested strategy for the offseason? What are the major moves we need to make: FO; Coaching Staff; Player Personnel?
     
    #14
  15. -X- I'm the dude, man.

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18,545
    Likes Received:
    8,100
    I'm not qualified to make those decisions. I'm just a guy. But *if* I was somehow gifted with the ability to run a $750M NFL Franchise, I would stay the course with the HC, DC and OC, install more accountability for roster development (see next), ask the OC which coaches HE wants to run his positions (and hire them), and then get a qualified President of Football Operations (that I trust) to install a plan and see that it gets implemented per his vision. And also have that President be VERY involved in the day-to-days.
     
    #15
  16. -X- I'm the dude, man.

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18,545
    Likes Received:
    8,100
    Did I say it was "quality leadership?" I said it was veterans that were on the same team in comparison to the veterans this team has amassed over the course of 7 years (all two of them). They have depth. But I don't expect you to see that while taking performers off their list (5 guys) and then discounting depth entirely with rankings about players who provide exactly that.

    And spare me your whining about the edit I imposed on you. You wrote "gutless coward." And if you do it again, I'll edit it again. Know why? My prerogative. If you don't like it, you can go ahead and post somewhere else. Rules are here for a reason.

    And your bottom line is just your opinion. The bottom line is that the 49ers would be worse off with Spagnuolo? THAT sounds subjective and opinion-based to me. Plus, you entirely discounted why the 49ers are the team they are BEFORE Harbaugh arrived. You'd rather just skip all the differences between that team and this team and point a shaky finger at Harbaugh while singing his praises for being a head coach in some previous capacity. Well, la-di-da. I hardly think that means anything more than he has more experience. He doesn't have the same team, the same circumstances, OR the same rebuilding process Spagnuolo was faced with.

    The 49ers signed ZERO defensive linemen and 2 backup linebackers over the off-season, and they fortified their offense with Braylon Edwards. The Rams signed 2 DL, 2 starting LBs, and made 3 rookies the focus of the offense. Yeah, Harbaugh certainly had to scrape together a team in a hurry, eh? What a joke to suggest as much, and what a bigger joke it is to believe they're "essentially the same team."

    Can't deal with THAT? Oh well, "pal", life isn't the way you planned it I guess.

    And your sound file didn't work. I'd tell you to stick to what you know, but...
     
    #16
  17. bluecoconuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    6,769
    Likes Received:
    710
    Spagnuolo doesn't know how to win, proven by the fact he's quiet and calm.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Harbaugh brothers however are proven winners, shown by the fact they yell and scream.

    Their many rings prove that:

    [​IMG]




    49ers can have next week. They can have the last week of the season for all I care. I hope they enjoy it and they take lots of pictures of Green Bay while they get rolled over by Aaron Rodgers. You know, for memories.
     
    #17
  18. raised_fisT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    139
    "File Not Found". LOL

    Mike Singletary was a screamer too. That didn't help the whiners do a damn thing. It's easy to be a chicken little and knee jerk react to this horrible season. But Harbaugh isn't the sole reason for their turnaround this year. There are sooo many different variables. Just like the Rams have all their reasons for their crappy year thus far. (Present laundry list)
     
    #18
  19. Angry Ram aka Captain RAmerica aka the OG Rammer

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6,114
    Likes Received:
    839
    I think it's funny you left off Alex Smith, Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, Patrick Willis, Ray McDonald, and Terrell Brown and instead used a random website that uses meaningless rankings to back up your arguement.
     
    #19
  20. -X- I'm the dude, man.

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18,545
    Likes Received:
    8,100
    AND ignoring the fact that they have 14 veterans still playing for them that they drafted from 2000-2007, and the Rams have 2. But hey, let's go ahead and take it a step further and expand it to 2008.

    49ers
    Brian Jennings (2000)
    Andy Lee (2004)
    Shawntae Spencer (2004)
    Isaac Sopoaga (2004)
    Adam Snyder (2005)
    Alex Smith (2005)
    Frank Gore (2005)
    Vernon Davis (2006)
    Delanie Walker (2006)
    Parys Haralson (2006)
    Joe Staley (2007)
    Ray McDonald (2007)
    Patrick Willis (2007)
    Tarell Brown (2007)
    Josh Morgan (2008)
    Chilo Rachal (2008)
    Larry Grant (2008)
    Reggie Smith (2008)


    Rams
    Steven Jackson (2004)
    Ron Bartell (2005) (and on IR)
    Chris Long (2008)
    Justin King (2008)
    Chris Chamberlain (2008)

    18-5. Too early to judge any drafts from 2009 to present. The point (which escaped him) was that the Rams were basically an expansion team in 2009 after they had to cut so many veterans. Kinda hard to fill a team with 18 veterans in 3 off-seasons. Especially when they needed 17 starters at the beginning of 2009 to begin with.
     
    #20