Kapersnuck-Wilson and Bradford

[rdlkgliders]

I believe that a more nimble QB could have avoided getting hit the way Bradford got hit when he tore his ACL. Sam was running to the sideline and did a pump fake which slowed him down a bit, then he tried to get out of bounds before getting getting hit but exposed the back of his legs. That doesn't happen to a guy like Russell Wilson. Wilson is slippery as heck; Bradford is the furthest thing from slippery that you will see at the QB position since Drew Bledsoe.

As far as his bad habits, they were talked about by Mike Martz, who said Sam developed some bad habits because of his poor protection and bad receivers. So this is not a new issue. Sam has had some problems with his accuracy, notably in the Dallas game and especially in the SF game. Fisher had said that Sams footwork was getting better, so you wonder how the ACL will affect that.

I believe Sam has indeed developed some bad habits. He has became too conservative, he needs to ramp up his aggression and killer instinct. I can't say for sure that it has been bad protection and subpar receivers but Sam will pass up a chance on a very makeable big plays for a check down or high percentage short gain. These are not horrible traits for a QB but certainly not great assets either.

 

[Mojo Ram]

There are 2 open questions that remain on Bradford.

1. Can he avoid the avoidable season ending hits?
2. Has he developed bad habits (from the poor situation he had been put in over the past 4 years) that are beyond fixing?

I don't believe we will know the answers to these questions definitively until this season is over.

So until this season is over I am reserving my opinion on any comparisons to other QBs.

Your first question is silly. I would agree with your 2nd point.

 

[RamsFan14]

@jrry32 those are some VERY interesting stats you posted, thanks a lot for looking into those and posting them! That might affect my perception on the draft too... But good stuff man!

 

[jrry32]

The NFL is full of douche bag moves, some QBs are better than others at avoiding them. Bradford obviously hasn't shown that he is one that can. It's called awareness. Just watch Wilson, the guy just has it. Tarkenton had it. Those kind of guys make defenders look silly when they try their douche bag moves.

Wilson wasn't going to avoid that. It wasn't awareness. Awareness dictates you get out of bounds there. Bradford got shoved while going out of bounds. The only thing Wilson could have done was get out of bounds quicker or try to avoid Mitchell and run for more yards...risking a bigger hit.

Those ACL injuries are freak occurrences and unavoidable...I've seen guys much quicker than Wilson tear their ACL by taking an awkward step to avoid a defender. Nothing you can really do.

 

[jrry32]

You lost me here bro. Splain please.

Those are their full season passing stats on plays where they perform a play-action fake.

 

[max]

Bradford hasn't played a full season back to back since his Freshman year in college. You guys can call it bad luck, fine. The bottom line is that he hasn't done it and until he does, the jury is out on him being able to stay healthy.

 

[jrry32]

Bradford hasn't played a full season back to back since his Freshman year in college. You guys can call it bad luck, fine. The bottom line is that he hasn't done it and until he does, the jury is out on him being able to stay healthy.

His freshman and sophomore years were back to back. That seems like a misrepresentation to me. And he played every single game in 2010 and 2012. Before the freak injury in 2013. I'm not going to claim him to be Brett Favre or Peyton Manning in terms of durability but I want to see a bit more proof before I call him injury prone.

And blaming the torn ACL on him...which is the point of contention here...is beyond a stretch imo.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Bradford hasn't played a full season back to back since his Freshman year in college. You guys can call it bad luck, fine. The bottom line is that he hasn't done it and until he does, the jury is out on him being able to stay healthy.

Would you consider Jay Cutler injury-prone? Don't look up the numbers. Just answer by your own knowledge and perception.

 

[blackbart]

I'll take this guy with a running game and an Oline that can protect him. Both of his injuries are the results of poor Oline play. Watch closely and you can see he moves well enough to get it done and throws well on the move. There are also a couple of examples of him throwing the ball up and letting the WRs go get it. #1 priority has not changed, PROTECT BRADFORD

 

[jrry32]

I believe Sam has indeed developed some bad habits. He has became too conservative, he needs to ramp up his aggression and killer instinct. I can't say for sure that it has been bad protection and subpar receivers but Sam will pass up a chance on a very makeable big plays for a check down or high percentage short gain. These are not horrible traits for a QB but certainly not great assets either.

You also have to consider whether that's what he's supposed to do. That is how Tom Brady makes his money.

It depends on the offense. Martz's Air Coryell variant preached the big play over playing it safe and high percentage throws. Whereas most WCO variants preach taking the high percentage, easy throw and protecting the ball. For example, Teddy Bridgewater was told at Louisville if the defense was in a certain alignment pre-snap and their coverage flashed in a way post-snap that his check-down option would be wide open...his primary read on the play was the short throw...often the HB. And to take that throw until they take it away.

A lot of WCOs work in that way. So without knowing what the offensive system dictates, it's hard to criticize the QB for doing maybe what he's supposed to.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 with an explanation:
Those are their full season passing stats on plays where they perform a play-action fake.

I understood that. What my question to you was, how is that pertinent to this conversation? That's the part I missed/don't understand.

 

[Rams Until I Die]

Great video @blackbart!

 

[jrry32]

I understood that. What my question to you was, how is that pertinent to this conversation? That's the part I missed/don't understand.

Seattle and SF's offenses have strong running games and are two of the most play-action heavy offenses in the NFL. In discussing how Bradford would do if the roles were reversed, it's worth pointing out how good he is as a play-action passer.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 with clarification:
Seattle and SF's offenses have strong running games and are two of the most play-action heavy offenses in the NFL. In discussing how Bradford would do if the roles were reversed, it's worth pointing out how good he is as a play-action passer.

Gotcha! Thanks.

 

[LesBaker]

His freshman and sophomore years were back to back. That seems like a misrepresentation to me. And he played every single game in 2010 and 2012. Before the freak injury in 2013. I'm not going to claim him to be Brett Favre or Peyton Manning in terms of durability but I want to see a bit more proof before I call him injury prone.

And blaming the torn ACL on him...which is the point of contention here...is beyond a stretch imo.

Well I don't think it matters how a player is injured unless they are reckless. No player goes out onto the field ready to get themselves injured.

Bradford has some things to prove so to speak, and staying on the field is in fact one of them. In four seasons he has missed essentially the equivalent of one season which means he has been on the field less than you would want, I think that's fair to say. Who's fault the injuries were doesn't matter, ask JSmith.

The type of injuries are worrisome more than the fact that he got hurt a few times. The injuries have caused him to miss long stretches of games, not one or two with a ding. That doesn't work well for you if you're an NFL HC or GM.

 

[blackbart]

The type of injuries are worrisome more than the fact that he got hurt a few times. The injuries have caused him to miss long stretches of games, not one or two with a ding. That doesn't work well for you if you're an NFL HC or GM.

I think the type of injuries are also a consideration when thinking about is this a long term or reoccurring problem. The shoulder injury he had in college has been tested a few times and has not been an issue. The ankle sprain was a hard injury to shake and requires a long recovery time but again is not something that has been a nagging problem. The ACL might be the one that ends up being a problem but it isn't as if he is a Steve young type guy he's more Brady like.

If he is recovered and working with the 1's in training camp with no problems I don't see this being much of a problem either HOWEVER, they absolutely need to do a better job of protecting him in 2014 and the future. His performance last year, the only time the team has not been working with a new OC was looking very promising. A good young team with 2 first round picks and developing talent all over the roster makes me very optimistic about the Rams future.

 

[LesBaker]

I think the type of injuries are also a consideration when thinking about is this a long term or reoccurring problem. The shoulder injury he had in college has been tested a few times and has not been an issue. The ankle sprain was a hard injury to shake and requires a long recovery time but again is not something that has been a nagging problem. The ACL might be the one that ends up being a problem but it isn't as if he is a Steve young type guy he's more Brady like.

If he is recovered and working with the 1's in training camp with no problems I don't see this being much of a problem either HOWEVER, they absolutely need to do a better job of protecting him in 2014 and the future. His performance last year, the only time the team has not been working with a new OC was looking very promising. A good young team with 2 first round picks and developing talent all over the roster makes me very optimistic about the Rams future.

Fisher said the number one priority was to keep Bradford upright.

I'm optimistic too, I just don't think it's fair to gloss over the past while looking forward to the future.

 

[blackbart]

Fisher said the number one priority was to keep Bradford upright.

I'm optimistic too, I just don't think it's fair to gloss over the past while looking forward to the future.

No gloss just a realistic evaluation of the injuries.

 

[max]

Would you consider Jay Cutler injury-prone? Don't look up the numbers. Just answer by your own knowledge and perception.

Yup. Cutler is always getting hurt. He can't be counted on. Don't want him.

 

[rdlkgliders]

You also have to consider whether that's what he's supposed to do. That is how Tom Brady makes his money.

It depends on the offense. Martz's Air Coryell variant preached the big play over playing it safe and high percentage throws. Whereas most WCO variants preach taking the high percentage, easy throw and protecting the ball. For example, Teddy Bridgewater was told at Louisville if the defense was in a certain alignment pre-snap and their coverage flashed in a way post-snap that his check-down option would be wide open...his primary read on the play was the short throw...often the HB. And to take that throw until they take it away.

A lot of WCOs work in that way. So without knowing what the offensive system dictates, it's hard to criticize the QB for doing maybe what he's supposed to.

Taking that into consideration he is still a little gun shy and conservative, you can see it in his pocket presence.