Just One Last Question For You All

[jetplt67]

Some of you know I referee football (when home). Ok it's High School ball but head contact is ruled the same way.
-Barron's hit was not above the shoulders, nothing to rule on, no foul
-Donald's would be ruled incidental. He didn't lead with the head, there is no targeting, It's not with the crown and face tackling isn't normally called above the shoulders.

Of course this is all subjective. This stuff happens so fast. It is amazing what other referees see that I don't. Often I feel inferior because they see stuff that happens in the blink of an eye and I saw nothing. Another thing: at field level it is much harder to see this stuff than it is in the stands.

Anyway these referees in the NFL are the best (except for Jerome Boger) refs in the world. Each referee has a key area to look at at all times. The guy with the white hat in high school ball, and I believe in the NFL, is focused solely on the QB when there are players around him, that's all they do. In the NFL if he has a white hat on, he is the most experienced ref on the field and one of the top referees in the world. If he's not calling that, it didn't happen 99.999% of the time.

The great thing about the game of football is the human factor. There will be human mistakes made on the field. To scrutinize referees who are making split second decisions while we have slow motion technology at our disposal after the play is over is being too absurd. It's fun to bit$h about them, I do but we are reaching a whole different level here with players throwing flags back at refs and calling them out by name at a press conference.

All of us have driven down the highway doing 65 in a 55 and passed a cop. CRAP!!! there are those few moments where we say "is he coming??", we are relying on that human factor. If it's a camera, we're busted, end of story, the ticket comes in the mail in a few weeks. If it's a human we might get off, we slow down (or not) and thank the cop for not stopping us at that point. Which would you prefer, the camera or the human? I would prefer the human.

 

[bwdenverram]

When I was watching these I assumed they would call a penalty. Not because they were actually illegal hits but because Cam has bitched so much I figured the refs would side with him no matter what.
Both of those hits are not lead by the helmet. Barron led with the shoulder, it's perfectly legal. Donald is what, 4-5" shorter. Does his helmet hit him? Yes, but after initial contact. It's illegal when you lead with helmet first. Not to say I'm an expert on the rules but at some point what is a defender supposed to do?

My personal opinion is all of this has become almost silly. Every freaking hit is scrutinized ad nauseam.
Every week us Rams fans have to listen to fans call our team dirty. Yet I don't see dirty play. Cam is 6' 5' 245 lbs. I mean this is football. Maybe he wants to play real games in a red jersey or something. I don't see any other QB in the NFL complain as much as he does. I promise you all QB"s get hit like he does. He is just under a microscope and more verbal about it. I get protecting players, etc, but it's gotten to be almost stupid. The players in the old days are laughing their asses off.

 

[LACHAMP46]

might as well play two handed touch...good clean hits

 

[DaveFan'51]

Barron's Hit was Clean, Donald's shoulder hit Cam first the helmet contact was just incidental contact!
Question: Are the Panther Fan just Jealous that Cam got sacked more than Keenum!?!

 

[lordbannon]

Good points. I'm not ticked off about the hits, they were real subtle, most likely accidental. They weren't dirty, far from it in fact.

I'm just mad the media considers those legal, and how no one can tell what's legal and not. I personally feel a flag could be called for helmet to helmet on one of those.

I just wanted to hear from your perspective if they could be flagged in some way. But those weren't that bad of hits. I mean Cam isn't complaining, so it's all good.

The Donald hit, I expected a flag on that one. There was actually helmet to helmet contact, albeit incidental. I would not have been livid if a flag HAD been thrown, but I don't think it warranted one.

The Barron one looks completely clean when watching it at angles where you can actually see the hit. The first angle, where the camera is right behind Barron, I could certainly see how people would THINK it was helmet to helmet.

 

[FaulkSF]

Sam, thanks for posting an objective post on our site, much respect.

Regarding Barron, it's more incidental contact. Barron leads with his shoulder and at the last second Cam drops his head to brace himself for impact. Yes, the helmets hit, but it's incidental from Cam protecting himself and Barron leading with a shoulder.

Good luck with the rest of your season.

 

[DthOn2Legs]

My Lord!!! That shot of Donald looks like a great white attacking a sea lion.

 

[RamzFanz]

Like what's really getting at me is how no one is talking about it, and how they consider these all legal.

The first is 100% clean.

I'm just mad the media considers those legal, and how no one can tell what's legal and not. I personally feel a flag could be called for helmet to helmet on one of those.

We might have looked at this as a missed call if our QB was buthurt too. Our QB just rubs dirt on it and moves on.

By the rule, the contact was incidental, he did not lead with the helmet.

Congrats on the win. It was hard earned for sure.

 

[LetsGoRams]

Funny - I thought the Barron hit was more suspect than the Donald one. Donald had jumped in the air and their helmets made contact in the process of him sacking Newton... in no way was he trying to launch himself or lead with his helmet. By the way, isn't that the reason they wear helmets? Because sometimes you're going to be hit in the head?

 

[RamBall]

The first one clearly shows shoulder to shoulder contact, the annoncers even said it was not helmet to helmet, as that would require the 2 helmets to come in contact with each other which they clearly did not. I figure if they are griping about that hit the rest are probably just a frivilous. I thought it was a physical game and the Rams D gained Cams respect, as he didnt want anything to do with contact from any of them, cant say I blame him. And the AD hit was chest to chest with incidental contact between their helmets, AD didnt lead in head first or even lower his head to strike with his helmet, he struck Cam chest to chest, he just had to jump real high to do so.

I havent watche dNFLN yet, but did Cam say that the Rams were dirty or is it just the panther fans that think the Rams played beyond the whistle or rules?

 

[DthOn2Legs]

Schefter just said that the refs haven't called roughing on Newton since 2014. And IMO, while I believe that's BS, neither of those hits justified a flag....especially Donald's.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Seriously, no offense to this thread or those within it, but discussions like these are what's wrong with todays NFL. Just play the damn game. The game is overloaded with rules and regulation analysis paralysis.

 

[ram007]

Cam Newton is now officially a mentally fragile player.

 

[KNUCKLEHEAD]

You'll get no sympathy here. Both hits were legal

 

[Mojo Ram]

I expect a flag on every possession, and on every big play these days. It's a joke and it's ruining the game for me. I know i'm not alone.

 

[dieterbrock]

I expect a flag on every possession, and on every big play these days. It's a joke and it's ruining the game for me. I know i'm not alone.

Yup.
After every play you have to withhold enthusiasm until you see no flag.
Of course that's a dumb statement, there's a flag on every play.
You have to withhold enthusiasm until you find out the flag is on the OTHER team

 

[JoeBo21]

If you start flagging those hits, you might as well just announce that we're not playing defense anymore. The game is already unfairly slanted towards the offense. You can't flag guys every time they touch the QB. I still am not seeing a hit to Newton's head on the Barron play.(if there was, it was because Newton ducked into his forearm) And Donald had to dive for Newton because he was about to throw the ball. He hit him chest to chest. The facemask to facemask contact was incidental to the hit.

I understand your frustration. That hit by the Cardinals player was 100% illegal. The Rams have had similar bad luck with our QB not getting calls. But today was clean from the QB standpoint on both sides.

P.S. I have so much respect for the guy you're named after. He was the definition of a football player. His death happened awhile ago, but it's still sad. Great man.

yet we can barely score 10 points a game

 

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-not-complaining-about-officiating-this-week/

Cam Newton not complaining about officiating, this week
Posted by Darin Gantt on November 7, 2016

Getty Images

Panthers quarterback Cam Newton took plenty of shots in yesterday’s win over the Rams, the kind you take when you play the Rams.

But a week after complaining that he wasn’t protected properly by officials, he avoided the topic this week.

“I’m not worried about that,” Newton said, via Bill Voth of Black and Blue Review. “Just trying to find ways to win the football game. . . .

“I’m just happy we won the football game. “It’s always fun to win.”

While they weren’t as blatantly obvious as Calais Campbell’s dive at the knees last week which triggered his response, Newton did take a pounding, and Mark Barron and Aaron Donald each got him with their helmets. Neither were as blatant as the Week One shots to the head in Denver, but Donald’s flying leap had an off-the-top-rope wrestling vibe.

“I’m going to watch the tape,” Panthers coach Ron Rivera said. “As I go through the game, I’m trying to watch for what’s happening. I’m for the most part satisfied. We’ll see what it looks like on tape, but I thought the officiating did a good job.”

Which is a nice thing to say after lobbing a grenade in their foxhole last week, forcing the league to admit mistakes and the fact they’re not enforcing their rules consistently.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...newton-underscore-the-need-for-replay-review/

More missed calls on Cam Newton underscore the need for replay review
Posted by Mike Florio on November 7, 2016

Getty Images

After Panthers quarterback Cam Newton complained loudly about illegal hits against him that weren’t generating flags, Commissioner Roger Goodell admitted that inconsistencies regarding the meaning of the key term “forcible” are responsible for situations in which penalty flags should fly, but don’t.

On Sunday, referee Terry McAulay didn’t regard a couple of hard blows to Newton’s head as “forcible.” On two separate occasions, Newton absorbed a helmet-to-helmet hit while in a passing posture, once from Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald and once from Rams linebacker Mark Barron. Neither hit drew a penalty.

While McAulay may have simply fallen victim to the moment, given the pressure to get the call right but not to overprotect Newton based on his complaints, the man principally responsible for enforcing the roughing the passer rules in the Panthers-Rams game did not throw flags when he apparently should have.

As a result, there’s only one reliable way to ensure that a consistent, reliable standard will be used for roughing the passer: Make these calls subject to replay review.

That way, one uniform interpretation will be overseen by the league office, with Dean Blandino or Alberto Riveron directly involved in the ruling. Also, multiple angles will be available to the referee, who often may not see exactly where and how hard a quarterback was hit.

Case in point: When viewed from behind the quarterback (where the referee is positioned), the hit from Barron wasn’t obviously illegal — in part because it happened so quickly. Another angle shows a helmet-to-helmet hit — and if that wasn’t “forcible,” then nothing is.

How can McAulay or anyone else be expected to spot those hits with the naked eye on a consistent basis? If replay is going to be reviewed for such trivialities as ensuring that the 12th defender got his foot off the field before the snap 20 yards away from the formation, why not use it for an important safety rule regarding the most important position on the field?

 

[OldSchool]

Mike Florio is the most anti Rams media member. He might be worse than even 3k.

 

[Mojo Ram]

As a result, there’s only one reliable way to ensure that a consistent, reliable standard will be used for roughing the passer: Make these calls subject to replay review.