Junior Seau commits suicide. So sad.

[Stranger]

Yeah ,sad, but mostly for those he left behind . He is no longer feeling the pain that drove him to this but his family will live permanently with the horror.

I'm very HARD on people who take that way "out".

I saw his mother on TV shrieking in agony over the horror that she would be burying her son, his children will live with the "knowledge" that he didn't care enough about them to fight through whatever it was that was causing him pain and to be there for them as they faced the agonies of their lives.

I KNOW I'm not going to score a lot of "humanitarian brownie points" for this take,but there are more than enough people who will "god him up" over the next few days ,he doesn't need my admiration as if any of it can give him comfort.
There may be extenuating circumstances like the ones that were so pervasive to Dave Duerson and he may have KNOWN that he was going to become a burden in the future instead of an asset,that may all be true but I ask anyone reading this to consider THIS real life story.

I HAD a friend his father killed himself because he'd gotten himself upside down on some debts and chose to take that way out, his son my friend repeated his fathers footsteps , killed himself when his financial dealings turned south. SEE his dad had given his son permission BY HIS ACTIONS.

He was a hell of a player ,but I reserve MY compassion for the people he left to deal with the aftermath.
FEW THINGS have impact upon your life MORE than what your father does,you hear a lot, but you SEE MORE.

Whatever life deals you when you have kids you need to suck it up cuz you set parameters EVERY step you take, Junior set one with his last step. IMO more people need to be hard on him for this decision and not ennoble this ignoble act.
Sorry JMO that someone NEEDS to frame this act without PC filters, and see it in a way that generates disdain for the act emphatically NOT nobility.

Yes RIP Junior you took ALL the Peace with you.

I believe you are applying rationality to an irrational disease... depression is not rational. Hence, I think its unfair to judge the situation on that basis. I realize that is not an easy ask, but I also think that leap is essential in order to understand those who suffer from depression's wrath.

On edit: I just saw that Mike Silver has addressed this in his article... I had missed that prior to submitting this post. Thx for posting those excerpts, X.

I have had a significant round with depression took the Minnesota Multiphasic, and other personality inventories, came back strongly suicidal ,was put on Elavil( that's an antidepressant from the 80's) ,took it ONE DAY and said "fuck this" I'm not going to spend my life dumbed out. I went to counselling for six months, and LEARNED why and how people become depressed got SO INTO IT I went back to school and got a degree in Psych. And yes depression centers around irrational thought patterns , but you won't concur depression by applying MORE irrational thought patterns ,you HAVE TO force yourself to question your every negative thought.
From ALL I've heard Junior fits the "laughing on the outside crying on the inside paradigm" .
Now I've said my peace on this subject and am more into discussing the possibilities that he was a multiple concussion sufferer,I won't however back away from the position that he had alternatives ,when you consider the thousands who have suffered numerous concussions and don't commit suicide I reject the proposition that he was powerless.

I hear you. But I come from a family with multiple suicides from depression across several generations, and I know everyone did just about everything possible to help those people and prevent the inevitable. All of those people had alternatives, but they repeatedly shunned them in favor of the final solution. In our experiences, appeals to rationality were simply not effective at all.

I am happy to hear that you were able to overcome, because I think I have some insight in how difficult that must have been.

 

[Thordaddy]

Re:

Yeah ,sad, but mostly for those he left behind . He is no longer feeling the pain that drove him to this but his family will live permanently with the horror.

I'm very HARD on people who take that way "out".

I saw his mother on TV shrieking in agony over the horror that she would be burying her son, his children will live with the "knowledge" that he didn't care enough about them to fight through whatever it was that was causing him pain and to be there for them as they faced the agonies of their lives.

I KNOW I'm not going to score a lot of "humanitarian brownie points" for this take,but there are more than enough people who will "god him up" over the next few days ,he doesn't need my admiration as if any of it can give him comfort.
There may be extenuating circumstances like the ones that were so pervasive to Dave Duerson and he may have KNOWN that he was going to become a burden in the future instead of an asset,that may all be true but I ask anyone reading this to consider THIS real life story.

I HAD a friend his father killed himself because he'd gotten himself upside down on some debts and chose to take that way out, his son my friend repeated his fathers footsteps , killed himself when his financial dealings turned south. SEE his dad had given his son permission BY HIS ACTIONS.

He was a hell of a player ,but I reserve MY compassion for the people he left to deal with the aftermath.
FEW THINGS have impact upon your life MORE than what your father does,you hear a lot, but you SEE MORE.

Whatever life deals you when you have kids you need to suck it up cuz you set parameters EVERY step you take, Junior set one with his last step. IMO more people need to be hard on him for this decision and not ennoble this ignoble act.
Sorry JMO that someone NEEDS to frame this act without PC filters, and see it in a way that generates disdain for the act emphatically NOT nobility.

Yes RIP Junior you took ALL the Peace with you.

I believe you are applying rationality to an irrational disease... depression is not rational. Hence, I think its unfair to judge the situation on that basis. I realize that is not an easy ask, but I also think that leap is essential in order to understand those who suffer from depression's wrath.

On edit: I just saw that Mike Silver has addressed this in his article... I had missed that prior to submitting this post. Thx for posting those excerpts, X.

I have had a significant round with depression took the Minnesota Multiphasic, and other personality inventories, came back strongly suicidal ,was put on Elavil( that's an antidepressant from the 80's) ,took it ONE DAY and said "freak this" I'm not going to spend my life dumbed out. I went to counselling for six months, and LEARNED why and how people become depressed got SO INTO IT I went back to school and got a degree in Psych. And yes depression centers around irrational thought patterns , but you won't concur depression by applying MORE irrational thought patterns ,you HAVE TO force yourself to question your every negative thought.
From ALL I've heard Junior fits the "laughing on the outside crying on the inside paradigm" .
Now I've said my peace on this subject and am more into discussing the possibilities that he was a multiple concussion sufferer,I won't however back away from the position that he had alternatives ,when you consider the thousands who have suffered numerous concussions and don't commit suicide I reject the proposition that he was powerless.

I hear you. But I come from a family with multiple suicides from depression across several generations, and I know everyone did just about everything possible to help those people and prevent the inevitable. All of those people had alternatives, but they repeatedly shunned them in favor of the final solution. In our experiences, appeals to rationality were simply not effective at all.

I am happy to hear that you were able to overcome, because I think I have some insight in how difficult that must have been.

If you read my original post, I covered how one generation resorting to suicide gives the next "permission" it's not just a matter of you,what you see done as a solution by those close to you becomes "acceptable" .
I don't think I found a magic solution but I know this, if your dad did it and you become depressed, you certainly don't have a model of courage to live up to.
The last lesson I can teach my kids is how to die, I won't miss out on the chance to show them the right way to do it. Too bad Junior didn't hold himself to that standard ,the pain he caused his mother ALONE is heart breaking, as if the brother he has whose doing life in the penetentiary wasn't enough for her to bear.
Hope the cycle in your family breaks and it never happens again it causes far more suffering than it ends.