June 2nd Moves

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André

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Ok, we always hear about how significant June 2nd is for the salary cap. Does anyone have any thoughts on what the Rams may be doing starting tomorrow?

Do we add Wright or Poole? Does Kenny Young get the boot? Anyone else?

Nothing - all their moves have been made?
 

dang

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Ok, we always hear about how significant June 2nd is for the salary cap. Does anyone have any thoughts on what the Rams may be doing starting tomorrow?

Do we add Wright or Poole? Does Kenny Young get the boot? Anyone else?

Nothing - all their moves have been made?
yes please to both Wight and Poole. fyi...looks like we could get Wright for about what we would save by cutting Young.
 

oldnotdead

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Post June 1 really refers to teams being able to spread the cap hit over two years from a release or trade. Since the Rams already have Goff for this year and next year, and Gurley for one more year they can't add another until next year when Gurley will be off the dead cap list. Teams are only allowed two of these types of deferrals per year.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if the Rams were to sign UFA Alex Okafor on a 2 year (one year by structure) prove it minimum deal with incentives. He would give them a proven rotational DE behind Lewis. The problem is Okafor's injury history the past two years. When healthy he can be a decent rotational DE.

Per Charles Goldman:
"Okafor appeared in 14 games for the Chiefs in 2020, notching 31 total tackles, three sacks, two tackles for loss and 13 QB hits. "

That's not bad for a 30 yr old rotational DE who only played about on average 26% of the snaps. Coming to a contender would be an incentive for him to sign a minimum deal with incentives based on playing time and production. His injuries have been primarily of muscle pulls and a minor pec tear in December 2019. IMO that is poor conditioning that can be correctable. Going unsigned for this long would seem to make him receptive to a lowball prove-it type of contract.
 

Psycho_X

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He would give them a proven rotational DE behind Lewis.

This the second time I've seen you mention Lewis as a DE. You think they are going to convert him into Brockers role? I'm not sure I see that with his size and injury history giving up 30-40 pounds to what Brockers is. Our run defense was already bad against power running games without adding an undersized down lineman. Would rather see if he can stay healthy and be the outside rusher opposite Lloyd that we need. Unless you meant Robinson?
 

dieterbrock

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Since the Rams already have Goff for this year and next year, and Gurley for one more year they can't add another until next year when Gurley will be off the dead cap list. Teams are only allowed two of these types of deferrals per year.
Goff's Cap hit is all in 2021 according to Sportrac, and Gurley's hit was spread out over 20-21. Not seeing where the 2 deferral rule would have come in to play
 

Allen2McVay

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Reported the Rams signed DB Dayan Lake.

If the name sounds familiar, he was with the Rams last year in camp. A post 2020 NFL Draft signing but did not make the final 53 or Practice Squad. Believe he was on the Patriots' PS for a time last season.
 

oldnotdead

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Both edges are probably going to be OLB for a couple of reasons. OLB gets paid less than a DE. But more importantly, and OLB gives them positional flexibility.

Floyd is the JACK which is an OLB that plays much like a DE with his hand in the dirt. Brockers isn't on the team for a variety of reasons one of which is a lack of positional versatility. He simply couldn't play in coverage just like Fowler. You want that versatility because the OL is never sure if both edges are rushing or if one is going to drop out into coverage. Especially on passing downs a hybrid 3-4 is often a 2-5. It's a way for the DC to disguise the coverage.

Last year Ebukam was shifted from his SAM LB position to that DE position. Lewis was drafted IMO to replace Brockers who simply didn't fit the scheme. The way some teams play the hybrid system it can be played with no ILB type of players. The Chargers did it on occasion when they were in San Diego. They ran a 2-5 with no ILB because they intentionally drafted OLBs with speed and coached them up on their coverages. This is why Hollins who came in as an OLB has been talked about being able to play inside and outside.

Centers and QBs call out and point to the MIKE before each snap. Whether the player is or isn't an actual MIKE LB is not relevant. They do it so that the OL now knows where their count starts and they know who to block based upon the blocking call. It also, helps them identify who to watch for blitzes and stunts. Defensively, the MIKE (who is usually the middle LB) generally is the one making the defensive calls. This is why on the breakdowns of Staley's scheme it showed where the MIKE was whether it was Reeder or often times it was Young.

Look at the breakdowns of Staley's scheme and there was often only one ILB, i.e. Reeder or Young because they have the speed to cover. This is why even though they proclaim publicly that Morris is going to stick with Staley's scheme I question it because of how Morris wanted Jones whose weakness is coverage due to his lack of speed. If you are playing a regular 3-4 hybrid scheme you can use an early-down thumper MIKE.

3-4 hybrid is a one-gap scheme, not a two-gap scheme. Therefore the DE is a DE in name only. All DL positions, i.e. DE, NT, DT, JACK are all aligned on the shoulders of the OL. In a regular 3-4, it's a two-gap scheme with the DL lined up on the heads of the OL. They are there to eat up blockers and free up the 3 LBs to flow to the POA to make the play. The hybrid aligns like a standard 4-3 with the JACK LB as the second DE and it's a one-gap penetration scheme. Therefore, just as in a standard 4-3 the DEs are lighter and faster than a standard 3-4.

This is old hat to most but I'm describing it for those who don't know.
 
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oldnotdead

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As a PS to what I meant about being paid less. The Ravens were one of the first to permanently switch to the hybrid back in the early 2000's. He was their JACK which was then and still is an OLB position. When his contract came up for renewal he was upset because he was offered an OLB contract which is significantly less than a DE contract. The Ravens could do that because 15% of his snaps had him dropping into coverage, i.e. playing as a LB despite 85% of his snaps being played as a down lineman. So it's a real thing.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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yes please to both Wight and Poole. fyi...looks like we could get Wright for about what we would save by cutting Young.
No way would I cut Young to sign Wright. Young played much better in the second half than he was given credit for on this forum. He's a developing player, which is more valuable than a declining player. At the very least the Rams could get a draft comp pick for Young in a few years, if he continues to improve. With Wright there's not much h left to gain. Besides, Shehawk stink won't ever wash off of KJ Wright. :alol:
 

dang

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No way would I cut Young to sign Wright. Young played much better in the second half than he was given credit for on this forum. He's a developing player, which is more valuable than a declining player. At the very least the Rams could get a draft comp pick for Young in a few years, if he continues to improve. With Wright there's not much h left to gain. Besides, Shehawk stink won't ever wash off of KJ Wright. :alol:
Perhaps I have selective memory but time and time again I saw soft coverage short middle by the Rams ILBs and a propensity for giving up chunk yardage up the middle once an RB penetrated our DL. I would like our weaknesses to be a focus of improvement thus my call for something added to our ILB corp.
 

Psycho_X

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Both edges are probably going to be OLB for a couple of reasons. OLB gets paid less than a DE. But more importantly, and OLB gives them positional flexibility.

Floyd is the JACK which is an OLB that plays much like a DE with his hand in the dirt. Brockers isn't on the team for a variety of reasons one of which is a lack of positional versatility. He simply couldn't play in coverage just like Fowler. You want that versatility because the OL is never sure if both edges are rushing or if one is going to drop out into coverage. Especially on passing downs a hybrid 3-4 is often a 2-5. It's a way for the DC to disguise the coverage.

Last year Ebukam was shifted from his SAM LB position to that DE position. Lewis was drafted IMO to replace Brockers who simply didn't fit the scheme. The way some teams play the hybrid system it can be played with no ILB type of players. The Chargers did it on occasion when they were in San Diego. They ran a 2-5 with no ILB because they intentionally drafted OLBs with speed and coached them up on their coverages. This is why Hollins who came in as an OLB has been talked about being able to play inside and outside.

Centers and QBs call out and point to the MIKE before each snap. Whether the player is or isn't an actual MIKE LB is not relevant. They do it so that the OL now knows where their count starts and they know who to block based upon the blocking call. It also, helps them identify who to watch for blitzes and stunts. Defensively, the MIKE (who is usually the middle LB) generally is the one making the defensive calls. This is why on the breakdowns of Staley's scheme it showed where the MIKE was whether it was Reeder or often times it was Young.

Look at the breakdowns of Staley's scheme and there was often only one ILB, i.e. Reeder or Young because they have the speed to cover. This is why even though they proclaim publicly that Morris is going to stick with Staley's scheme I question it because of how Morris wanted Jones whose weakness is coverage due to his lack of speed. If you are playing a regular 3-4 hybrid scheme you can use an early-down thumper MIKE.

3-4 hybrid is a one-gap scheme, not a two-gap scheme. Therefore the DE is a DE in name only. All DL positions, i.e. DE, NT, DT, JACK are all aligned on the shoulders of the OL. In a regular 3-4, it's a two-gap scheme with the DL lined up on the heads of the OL. They are there to eat up blockers and free up the 3 LBs to flow to the POA to make the play. The hybrid aligns like a standard 4-3 with the JACK LB as the second DE and it's a one-gap penetration scheme. Therefore, just as in a standard 4-3 the DEs are lighter and faster than a standard 3-4.

This is old hat to most but I'm describing it for those who don't know.

Right, so he won't be a Brockers replacement really because you're talking of him being a completely different kind of player. Robinson is going to be a straight up Brockers replacement. But they may change the scheme now that Brockers is gone is what you're saying and that makes more sense to me.
 

shovelpass

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Both edges are probably going to be OLB for a couple of reasons. OLB gets paid less than a DE. But more importantly, and OLB gives them positional flexibility.
In a 3-4 both edges are almost always OLB, because they're lighter, faster, and better at rushing the passer from the outside than a lineman.
Floyd is the JACK which is an OLB that plays much like a DE with his hand in the dirt. Brockers isn't on the team for a variety of reasons one of which is a lack of positional versatility. He simply couldn't play in coverage just like Fowler. You want that versatility because the OL is never sure if both edges are rushing or if one is going to drop out into coverage. Especially on passing downs a hybrid 3-4 is often a 2-5. It's a way for the DC to disguise the coverage.

Last year Ebukam was shifted from his SAM LB position to that DE position. Lewis was drafted IMO to replace Brockers who simply didn't fit the scheme. The way some teams play the hybrid system it can be played with no ILB type of players. The Chargers did it on occasion when they were in San Diego. They ran a 2-5 with no ILB because they intentionally drafted OLBs with speed and coached them up on their coverages. This is why Hollins who came in as an OLB has been talked about being able to play inside and outside.
Floyd, Ebukam, Hollins, Fowler, Obo are all OLB. Brockers is a lineman, he's not standing up on the outside, he's hands in the dirt on the inside, Brock isn't asked to drop into coverage. None of those guys are playing the same position as Brockers, even in passing downs, Brock moves to 3T and the OLBS are 7-9T.

If Floyd is always with his hand in the dirt wouldn't that signal to the offense that rushing and not dropping into coverage? Wouldn't that ruin the disguise?

On passing downs, regardless of base scheme, most teams play a 4-2-5, 4 rushers, 2 coverage LBs, 5 DBS. The rise of the S/LB role slightly changes this. Last season under Staley the defense had 5 DBs on the field over 90% of the time.
Centers and QBs call out and point to the MIKE before each snap. Whether the player is or isn't an actual MIKE LB is not relevant. They do it so that the OL now knows where their count starts and they know who to block based upon the blocking call. It also, helps them identify who to watch for blitzes and stunts. Defensively, the MIKE (who is usually the middle LB) generally is the one making the defensive calls. This is why on the breakdowns of Staley's scheme it showed where the MIKE was whether it was Reeder or often times it was Young.

Look at the breakdowns of Staley's scheme and there was often only one ILB, i.e. Reeder or Young because they have the speed to cover. This is why even though they proclaim publicly that Morris is going to stick with Staley's scheme I question it because of how Morris wanted Jones whose weakness is coverage due to his lack of speed. If you are playing a regular 3-4 hybrid scheme you can use an early-down thumper MIKE.
In all but 1 of his games started Reeder played well over 90% of the snaps, he only played 89% in the 1 game. Young is the part time player, except for wk 5 vs WAS and 14 vs NE where he played 70% and 69% of the snaps. Hollins also took snaps at ILB, throw those in with Young's snaps and it looks like there are 2 ILBs on the field a lot more than you think.
3-4 hybrid is a one-gap scheme, not a two-gap scheme. Therefore the DE is a DE in name only. All DL positions, i.e. DE, NT, DT, JACK are all aligned on the shoulders of the OL. In a regular 3-4, it's a two-gap scheme with the DL lined up on the heads of the OL. They are there to eat up blockers and free up the 3 LBs to flow to the POA to make the play. The hybrid aligns like a standard 4-3 with the JACK LB as the second DE and it's a one-gap penetration scheme. Therefore, just as in a standard 4-3 the DEs are lighter and faster than a standard 3-4.
Scheme's change, they're not static. Even Wade was known to mix things up even a little when he was here, but not nearly as much as Staley. Brockers would be and was a DT in a 4-3, not end.

1622641306610.png

Notice how Brockers in head-up with the Tackle and the OLBs are standing up way outside of the LOS.

1622641465117.png



1622641503714.png

Again Brockers on the LOS, hand in the dirt, FLoyd and Hollins are upright on the outside. Also 2 ILBS on the field.
1622641638987.png

Sub formation, Brock on the inside, Floyd and Lewis on the out.
 

Allen2McVay

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Personally, I am in agreement with shovelpass on just about everything except for his handle ... I mean seriously ... Shovel-Pass?!?

OldNotDead has some interesting takes and clearly has some football knowledge. However, sometimes I am just not seeing what he sees.
 

Soul Surfer

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Perhaps I have selective memory but time and time again I saw soft coverage short middle by the Rams ILBs and a propensity for giving up chunk yardage up the middle once an RB penetrated our DL. I would like our weaknesses to be a focus of improvement thus my call for something added to our ILB corp.
To me it looked like our run stoppage game looked much better in 2020 than it did in 2019.
 

BonifayRam

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Reported the Rams signed DB Dayan Lake.

If the name sounds familiar, he was with the Rams last year in camp. A post 2020 NFL Draft signing but did not make the final 53 or Practice Squad. Believe he was on the Patriots' PS for a time last season.
Considered far more strong safety than corner while at BYU. Looks like a strong special teams player to me. Not sure why to add another safety to the Rams overflowing safety room. Maybe Nickle Back is a slight possibility with that 4.41-second 40-yard dash?
 
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Soul Surfer

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It IS kind of confusing because fairly offen I'll see articles referring to a 3-4 OLB as a DE and a 3-4/ 3 tech, as an example, as a DE.

I think of all three down lineman in a 3-4 as defensive tackles or nose tackles.

In the last five or six years I see them referring to a 3-4 OLB as an EDGE more often as a way to differentiate, (I would guess).
 
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Soul Surfer

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Considered far more strong safety than corner while at BYU. Looks like a strong special teams player to me. Not sure why to add another safety to the Rams overflowing safety room. Maybe Nickle Back is a slight possibility?
I saw him listed as a corner and that's what I was hoping he was.

I can not remember ANY team having as many safeties as the Rams are going into camp with.
 

Allen2McVay

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These are some good posts and comments; and, in my opinion, they reflect how defenses have evolved and become more diverse and complex.

The old 3-4 defense where the three linemen were essentially all two-gapping (NT over C, responsible for the gaps to the left and right of the C; and the DEs over the OTs, responsible for the gaps on either side of those tackles. That's all the gaps!) no longer applies to most alignments. Now it's about the "techniques" of DL-alignment. Shovel-pass did a nice job of illustrating some of those techniques in his post above.

Even the 3-4 OLB position, now often referred to as Edge. For a time, the term 'Edge-rusher' was frequently used because that 3-4 OLB / Edge was viewed primarily as an outside pass-rusher. Now the term Edge often stands alone. I take it, and I could be wrong, that many alignments view the position as much more than a pass-rushing role. Holding / maintaining the edge on run downs and roll-outs is a big-part of the position in some defensive schemes.

Personally, I viewed Dante Fowler in 2018, and Clay Matthews in 2019 as quality edge-pass-rushers; and that may have been their primary role in Wade Phillips 3-4 alignment. However Brandon Staley's defense (also commonly referred to as a 3-4 alignment) was different in so many ways. One way, in my opinion, was the use of the Edge-DL/LB. Staley was quoted a couple times last year, by broadcasters, as saying he viewed Leonard Floyd as one of the best Edge-players in the NFL. I don't think Floyd is a far superior pass-rusher to Fowler or Matthews. However, I thought he was far more effective on the edge overall.

Just a few thoughts.
 

snackdaddy

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To me it looked like our run stoppage game looked much better in 2020 than it did in 2019.

Its also no coincidence our defense became the top defense when we finally began to stop the run. Our run defense seemed pretty bad under Phillips. But our pass defense was ok.