1. To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

Jake Matthews grade from preaseason

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by SteveBrown, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. jrry32

    Hall of Fame
    ROD's Richest Member 2015
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    14,018
    Likes Received:
    14,110
    Gender:
    Male
    The bold is exactly why I don't like PFF's grades. Told their founder the same thing after I asked him about that issue.
     
    blue4 and PolarBear like this.
  2. blackbart

    Hall of Fame
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    2,073
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cascade Mountains
    I wanted Matthews I thought he was a better fit and would be better insurance on the outside in his rookie year than Robinson. We'll all just have to wait and see.

    BUT, Matthews is playing tackle and Robinson started at Guard even though J Long was out.
     
  3. Memphis Ram

    Hall of Fame
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,266
    Likes Received:
    3,849
    http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/06/can-pro-football-focus-stats-be-blindly-trusted

    The Dangers In The PFF Method

    Last August, Bill Belichick talked about the dangers of watching film and making conclusions based on it.

    It might even look to us like somebody made a mistake but then we look at it more closely maybe somebody besides him made a mistake and he was trying to compensate. I think we need a little closer analysis a lot of times. Sometimes the play calls or what was called on the line of scrimmage might be something that we’re not aware of. That could happen in any game. You think a player did something that he shouldn’t have done but maybe he got a call, a line call or a call from a linebacker or he thought the quarterback said something so he did what he thought was the right thing or maybe it was the right thing but that call shouldn’t have been made or should have been on the other side. But yeah, I think we need to be careful about what we’re evaluating.

    So sometimes even the team itself doesn’t know exactly where things broke down and who did what wrong. Belichick then went on to talk about watching opposing team’s game films and the impossibilities of knowing what happened:

    But believe me, I’ve watched plenty of preseason games this time of year and you’re looking at all the other teams in the league and you try to evaluate players and you’re watching the teams that we’re going to play early in the season and there are plenty of plays where I have no idea what went wrong. Something’s wrong but I don’t…these two guys made a mistake but I don’t know which guy it was or if it was both of them. You just don’t know that. I don’t know how you can know that unless you’re really part of the team and know exactly what was supposed to happen on that play. I know there are a lot of experts out there that have it all figured out but I definitely don’t. This time of year, sometimes it’s hard to figure that out, exactly what they’re trying to do. When somebody makes a mistake, whose mistake is it?

    Bill Belichick doesn’t have it figured out. But Pro Football Focus does? They can provide a grade on every play?
     
    CodeMonkey and LACHAMP46 like this.
  4. CGI_Ram

    Hamburger Connoisseur
    Staff
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    22,982
    Likes Received:
    15,903
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NB, Canada
    And his first game at that. Rookies being rookies.

    Some of these expectations are just crazy.
     
    Angry Ram likes this.
  5. Mojo Ram

    Hall of Fame
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    11,784
    Likes Received:
    13,700
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Arizona
    The +/- plus minus individual stat in basketball is also relied upon far too heavily too IMO. It doesn't mean a whole lot.
     
  6. OC_Ram

    Rookie
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    335
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Homophobe City
    And Givens.
     
  7. So Ram

    Rookie
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2014
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    203
    Gender:
    Male
    Don't believe Matthew is better than Greg Robinson at all,or will ever be better than him.
    I was hoping for a trade back with the Falcons.Don't know if it was ever on the board, say if Clowney was still there.Not even sure if they didn't shine the Falcons.
    _I'm all for value & an extra pick.Greg Robinson is at least a 2nd rd pick extra than Matthews in my book.His upside is out the roof.
    If you can't see it now,wait 15 to 20 years when G. Rob is in the HOF next to all the other great Ram offensive lineman.His type don't come around everyday .
     
    rhinobean and jjab360 like this.
  8. DR RAM

    Rams Lifer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    10,251
    Likes Received:
    5,294
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Farthest West and Very South
    I've had the same argument....so many times with people. Unless you are on the staff, and know the play called, and know the scheme for the particular play called, which might have been an audible, for instance, etc, etc...you just don't know. Sight lines, progressions, and the most over used term in football,....staring a guy down.
     
    blue4 likes this.
  9. scifiman

    Guest
    Expand Collapse

    My exact thoughts. Pre season games are glorified scrimmages.
     
    Angry Ram likes this.
  10. Angry Ram

    aka Captain RAmerica aka the OG Rammer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,952
    Likes Received:
    3,059
    Gender:
    Male

    I think PFF is slowly but surely ruining the game with it's overanalyzing stats. Even for regualr season. I could care less if the right tackle or back up defensive tackle gets a -.132 whatever grade. Like...what does that even mean?!
     
  11. LACHAMP46

    A snazzy title
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    5,243
    Likes Received:
    5,752
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Garden Grove, Ca.,
    About PFF (taken off their site)
    The aim of this site is simple; “to provide the most in-depth, accurate and thought-provoking information on professional football player performance available on the web”. Each week our team spend hours analyzing games to provide you with information you simply can’t get anywhere else. Which TE is the best blocker for run and for pass? Which Cornerback is the best run defender? Which Tackle was the worst pass protector in 2010? It’s all here.

    We have other data to share with you which goes to a level we haven’t seen available previously; our Player Participation logs show not only which players were in on each offensive and defensive play but what position they played and what action they took. On Special Teams we grade not just the Returners but also the coverage and blocking units. Whether it’s need to know or nice to know we try to measure it.

    If you’ve got any feedback we’d love to hear from you as indeed we would if you spot any errors or would like to get involved. Simply go to the contact us section above or join our Forum. Most of all though, please just enjoy the site.

    The ProFootballFocus.com Team


    I kept looking for the area where they describe what the points mean..I saw it once, a long, long time ago...lol, but from what I gather, this is a site primarily for fantasy footballers...I wish I played, so I could tell you if it is helpful. Like baseball, a lil inside info is helpful, but I still like to use my eyes. Jake Matthews had a rough game, he was holding. He plays LT, the most demanding spot on the OL. He'll get better, but he's no G-Rob. I doubt he's as good as Taylor Lewan.
     
  12. junkman

    Farewell to all!
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2014
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1,414
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chesterfield, Missouri
    PFFs biggest problem are the people who MIS-use their stats.

    E.g. this just in:
    • Adrian Peterson is the 12th best running back in the league (12 / 48 in YPC)
    • Tom Brady is the league's 17th best QB (17 / 37 in QB rating, Bradford is 11)
    • Calvn Johnson is the league's 132nd best receiver (132 / 151 in catches / targets, Givens in #151)
    Any stat can be mis-used. I think that PFF really started getting on people's bad side when someone blindly rolled up PFF's 2013 player scores for each team's 22 projected starters in 2014, and decided that the Rams were the 31st best team in the league. Among the problems with the analysis:
    • It didn't consider the relative value of the positions
    • It didn't consider the depth of the rosters
    • It didn't consider improvement over the year (disfavors the Rams and their young / evolving roster)
    • It didn't consider strength of opponent (which is true of all PFF stats but is also true of pretty much any NFL stat, but this really disfavors the Rams)
    • It didn't consider strength of teammates (which is true of all PFF stats but is also true of pretty much any NFL stat)
    No stats are perfect, and PFF is no exception to that. But there are things that PFF does very well. To repeat my challenges from a different thread,
    • does anyone here think they can come up with a ranking of the best LTs in the league? Sorted by best run blocking? Pass blocking? Overall? Which players are ascending or descending year over year or even within the season?
    • can you provide evidence that shows where Saffold plays better, G or T?
    • can you provide evidence that shows if Davin Joseph over his injury?
    Most of the PFF shortcomings (e.g. not considering strength of schedule, or not being sure about the assignment) will even out over the course of the year as statistical background noise. Regarding other statistical shortcomings, those things are in the hands of the people using the stats to apply some common sense before publishing some absurd set of conclusions.

    From what I've seen, people who rail against PFF don't really understand what they do, and the reason they don't like PFF is anecdotally, because of articles (like the Rams @ #31 article or the Rams D at #22 article) which base their conclusions on PFF stats where the conclusions don't pass the sniff test.

    Any stat can be mis-used, but I'm not abandoning YPC, QB rating or Rec/Target any time soon.