How much of a difference does having an elite guard make?

[Tron]

With Saffold at G, the Rams ran for 200 yards at 5.5 YPC against the Seahawks. When we moved him to OT and he got injured, we ran for 13 yards at 0.7 YPC.

Pshhh!!!!! I don't see a difference at all. I don't see any kind of point you are trying to make. We obviouslyy can grab any guard, even the worst of the worst and plug him in and get the same production as when Saffold was playing guard for us.

 

[Ramsey]

You get a elite guard in the 3rd or 4th round. Doesn't have to be a 1st round or early 2nd round guard.

 

[jjab360]

You get a elite guard in the 3rd or 4th round. Doesn't have to be a 1st round or early 2nd round guard.

I believe it was posted somewhere that 6 out of the 10 HOF OGs in the modern NFL were drafted in the first round. Too lazy to do the homework, but I'm pretty sure that's close to the same ratio as HOF WRs, OTs, CBs, Ss, etc.

Truth is you have a chance at finding good players anywhere in the draft at any position, but the best ones are usually in the first round. OGs aren't fullbacks or long snappers, they play a vital part of the offense's success, and if you want great players you're either going to have to hope to get lucky or spend some resources on the position.

 

[blackbart]

You get a elite guard in the 3rd or 4th round. Doesn't have to be a 1st round or early 2nd round guard.

Was that supposed to be in blue font???

 

[jrry32]

An elite guard in comparison to just a good guard helps a team just as much as an elite tackle in comparison to just a good tackle.

Lol, yep. I don't get the point. An elite player will make a world of difference at any position in comparison to a good player.

I'd take a Steve Hutchinson, Larry Allen, or Will Shields in the top 5 without thinking twice...those guys make a WORLD of difference on your OL.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Lol, yep. I don't get the point. An elite player will make a world of difference at any position in comparison to a good player.

I'd take a Steve Hutchinson, Larry Allen, or Will Shields in the top 5 without thinking twice...those guys make a WORLD of difference on your OL.

i'd give my first born for steve hutchinson to be on our team

 

[jjab360]

i'd give my first born for steve hutchinson to be on our team

The man is 36 years old and has been retired for a couple years now. You just completely wasted your one bargaining chip with the devil, smh..

 

[NJRamsFan]

The man is 36 years old and has been retired for a couple years now. You just completely wasted your one bargaining chip with the devil, smh..

God dammit...I knew i shoulda wished for X-ray vision

 

[mr.stlouis]

I can't even begin...

 

[Ram Quixote]

With Saffold at G, the Rams ran for 200 yards at 5.5 YPC against the Seahawks. When we moved him to OT and he got injured, we ran for 13 yards at 0.7 YPC.

Except that Saffold wasn't playing guard in that game. Dahl was injured IIRC in the Colts game.

 

[Ramsey]

Was that supposed to be in blue font???

I didn't know it was all in blue font. I thought I added gold trim!

I do know the round the 2013 class of all-pro guards were drafted in...

Louis Vasquez - 3rd round
Evan Mathis- 3rd round
Jahri Evans- 4th round
Logan Mankins- 1st round-32pick
Josh Sitton -4th round

 

[jjab360]

Except that Saffold wasn't playing guard in that game. Dahl was injured IIRC in the Colts game.

You're right, actually, my mistake. Dahl played very well in that game, if I remember correctly.

 

[jrry32]

I didn't know it was all in blue font. I thought I added gold trim!

I do know the round the 2013 class of all-pro guards were drafted in...

Louis Vasquez - 3rd round
Evan Mathis- 3rd round
Jahri Evans- 4th round
Logan Mankins- 1st round-32pick
Josh Sitton -4th round

The 2010 All Pro team had a 6th round QB.

You can get an elite QB in the 6th round.

And yet I don't advise any teams to try and find their franchise QB in the 6th round.

If you can find an OG in the mid rounds, have at it. But odds are higher that you end up with Rokevious Watkins or John Greco than you end up with Josh Sitton or Jahri Evans.

 

[Boffo97]

If this question is in reference to our current situation we wouldn't be drafting a guard top 10 we would be drafting a future tackle top 10

The problem is that the argument becomes circular.

If you talk about how you don't think it's a good idea to use this premium draft pick on a position at which we're set for now but will need SOMETIME in the future at the expense of ignoring a position we don't have now, you get the response of "Oh, he can play Guard!"

If you talk about how the vast majority of good Guards come in later rounds, and thus we can get the #1 WR that we CANNOT get in later rounds (barring incredible luck) AND still address the offensive line issues "Oh, we're drafting for the future!"

 

[jrry32]

The problem is that the argument becomes circular.

If you talk about how you don't think it's a good idea to use this premium draft pick on a position at which we're set for now but will need SOMETIME in the future at the expense of ignoring a position we don't have now, you get the response of "Oh, he can play Guard!"

If you talk about how the vast majority of good Guards come in later rounds, and thus we can get the #1 WR that we CANNOT get in later rounds (barring incredible luck) AND still address the offensive line issues "Oh, we're drafting for the future!"

That's because they're not mutually exclusive arguments. And I still think calling it incredible luck to find a #1 WR in later rounds while not saying the same about great OGs is a ridiculous proposition. I can name as many current #1 WRs drafted outside the first round as a person can name current great OGs.

Regardless, the argument for the offensive tackle is:
1. He satisfies a current major need by playing OG
2. He satisfies a future major need by playing LT
3. He's a top tier talent at both positions

So I don't quite understand how you think both arguments aren't valid. As I said, they're not mutually exclusive events.

 

[Ramsey]

The 2010 All Pro team had a 6th round QB.

You can get an elite QB in the 6th round.

And yet I don't advise any teams to try and find their franchise QB in the 6th round.

If you can find an OG in the mid rounds, have at it. But odds are higher that you end up with Rokevious Watkins or John Greco than you end up with Josh Sitton or Jahri Evans.

Maybe so. Yet, the 4 of the 5 guards, in the 2013 Associated Press All Pro Class, were drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The lone exception Logan Mankins was drafted with last pick in the 1st round.

 

[Boffo97]

That's because they're not mutually exclusive arguments. And I still think calling it incredible luck to find a #1 WR in later rounds while not saying the same about great OGs is a ridiculous proposition. I can name as many current #1 WRs drafted outside the first round as a person can name current great OGs.

Regardless, the argument for the offensive tackle is:
1. He satisfies a current major need by playing OG
2. He satisfies a future major need by playing LT
3. He's a top tier talent at both positions

So I don't quite understand how you think both arguments aren't valid. As I said, they're not mutually exclusive events.

I didn't say the two arguments were mutually exclusive, but it's a way to keep the goalpost moving around while peppering in silly things like "Watkins won't protect Sam!" as if the plan was to totally ignore the OL if we didn't take a tackle first. If only THAT nonsense can be canned, I think the air can be cleared a little around here. EVERYONE wants to address the OL. We just have different ideas of how to do it, and we have different ideas as to the rarity of really good guards vs. #1 WRs.

But I will add a reason to your list:

4. The Rams either feel Watkins is NOT a special #1 level guy, OR they feel that Evans IS and plan to draft him in the neighborhood of #13 OR they sign someone like Hakeem Nicks.

Under any of those scenarios, the only two sensible solutions left IMO are draft an OT to play OG (hopefully not long term, and hopefully Matthews IMO in that scenario) or draft out of the top ten completely and stack up multiple hopefully very good players instead of one hopefully elite player.

And of course there's also the idea the Rams pull some razamatazz (that IS the technical term for it) and draft BOTH... which would make go "Huh."

 

[jrry32]

In fact, I'll give a list:
Antonio Brown - 6th round
Pierre Garcon - 6th round
Alshon Jeffery - 2nd round
Josh Gordon - 2nd round
DeSean Jackson - 2nd round
Jordy Nelson - 2nd round
Brandon Marshall - 4th round
Vincent Jackson - 3rd round
Anquan Boldin - 2nd round
Marques Colston - 7th round
Mike Wallace - 3rd round
Torrey Smith - 2nd round

At worst, you can argue 3-6 of these guys are not "true #1 WRs" depending on your standards. Regardless, that's 12 names. 10 of those 12 names had 1000+ yards in 2013.

So, can anyone give me 10 very good/great OGs that were drafted outside the first round?

 

[jrry32]

Maybe so. Yet, the 4 of the 5 guards, in the 2013 Associated Press All Pro Class, were drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The lone exception Logan Mankins was drafted with last pick in the 1st round.

And...? 6 out of the top 10 QBs in Passer Rating in 2013 were drafted outside the first round. Should teams look for their franchise QB outside the first round?

 

[NJRamsFan]

The problem is that the argument becomes circular.

If you talk about how you don't think it's a good idea to use this premium draft pick on a position at which we're set for now but will need SOMETIME in the future at the expense of ignoring a position we don't have now, you get the response of "Oh, he can play Guard!"

If you talk about how the vast majority of good Guards come in later rounds, and thus we can get the #1 WR that we CANNOT get in later rounds (barring incredible luck) AND still address the offensive line issues "Oh, we're drafting for the future!"

Unlike many, Im not really an advocate of drafting a certain position (sure I've joked around in threads) but my overall stance has been and remains, out of the top talent available, our scouting department needs to determine if they think one of those guys will be a game changer and if so, proceed accordingly. That is a luxury made easier by the fact we have 2 first round picks.

Thats the reason to me, both Clowney, and Watkins are still in play. If we think Clowney is going to be Julius peppers, or Watkins is megatron, you have to take them and make it work. I just want impact players/game changers on our team, by my account we only have 1 true player that fits that mold in Robert Quinn.