Havenstein, Whitworth and McVay

[badnews]

These are the 3 guys who most need to look in the mirror, in their hearts, wherever they have to, and right this ship on offense.
It's not about the things they can't control, it's the things they can do better, but haven't, that are hurting our offense the most. Not Gurleys attitude or his knee or Goffs passer rating or Marcus Peters mistakes.

 

[Jacobarch]

I think you're seeing these guys struggle because the entire interior of our oline is scary bad. Missing assignments missing blocks and calling wrong protections. When you're put on an island on a zone running scheme you're going to struggle I dont care who you are

 

[badnews]

And I am huge fans of all 3 and believe they will do better but I have seen a lot of blame placed and these are the 3 I think I expect more from.

 

[badnews]

I think you're seeing these guys struggle because the entire interior of our oline is scary bad. Missing assignments missing blocks and calling wrong protections. When you're put on an island on a zone running scheme you're going to struggle I dont care who you are

It's true, and those are things the coaching staff and espescially the vets on our line must collaborate to find a way to stop the bleeding or at least limit it to the point of being able to move the ball at home.

 

[PhillyRam]

I think you're seeing these guys struggle because the entire interior of our oline is scary bad. Missing assignments missing blocks and calling wrong protections. When you're put on an island on a zone running scheme you're going to struggle I dont care who you are

I don't know how a struggling RG/C causes Havenstein to let DE's blow by him on the outside. I mean the RG is the same guy who played last year. Same with Whit. They are getting beat be on one.

I agree with McVay. He is like a good young pitcher with two great pitches. He now needs to develop a 3rd pitch to become great.

 

[jrry32]

I don't know how a struggling RG/C causes Havenstein to let DE's blow by him on the outside. I mean the RG is the same guy who played last year. Same with Whit. They are getting beat be on one.

I agree with McVay. He is like a good young pitcher with two great pitches. He now needs to develop a 3rd pitch to become great.

Whit is still performing. He's not going to win every play. Havenstein has been a problem. But he's a manageable problem if we fix the interior. We need to make a move.

 

[Jacobarch]

I don't know how a struggling RG/C causes Havenstein to let DE's blow by him on the outside. I mean the RG is the same guy who played last year. Same with Whit. They are getting beat be on one.

I agree with McVay. He is like a good young pitcher with two great pitches. He now needs to develop a 3rd pitch to become great.

No offense but that means you dont understand how a zone blocking scheme works.

 

[PhillyRam]

No offense but that means you dont understand how a zone blocking scheme works.

No offense, but on 3rd down, when the LDE blows past your RT, its not the RGs fault.

Now of its an inside stunt, sure. Yet Blythe played next to Havenstein last yr. So not sure what the issue is?

If you are going to tell me that Havenstein's play has not slipped, then no offense, but you don't know what your watching then.

 

[fearsomefour]

Whit is still performing. He's not going to win every play. Havenstein has been a problem. But he's a manageable problem if we fix the interior. We need to make a move.

What move would you like the team to make?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

McVay could use a real OC to help out when the going gets tough. It would give him more time to focus on fixing the bigger issues. Kromer as run coordinator is not working out either. In general Kromer hasn't been as good as expected. I thought he had a better eye for talent. Maybe I shouldn't blame him, but I think Snead would use his input on who they draft.

This isn't a quick fix either. I don't think the interior OLine magically gets better with reps. They need a dominant presence at one of the three spots. A guard that played like Saffold on the right or left would give them a strong side to lean on. A veteran center would help Goff out. Better depth than Demby would help too. But even if the line is fixed this year, they will still be looking at replacing Whitworth next year and so far the guys in the house don't look like they can do it. The dam starts leaking in other areas along with Whitworth retiring. Holes at corner and DE along with Weddle and Matthews being older puts a lot of stress on Snead to fix the defense. We are looking at a few down years IMO. Too much to rebuild.

 

[Riverumbbq]

McVay could use a real OC to help out when the going gets tough. It would give him more time to focus on fixing the bigger issues. Kromer as run coordinator is not working out either. In general Kromer hasn't been as good as expected. I thought he had a better eye for talent. Maybe I shouldn't blame him, but I think Snead would use his input on who they draft.

This isn't a quick fix either. I don't think the interior OLine magically gets better with reps. They need a dominant presence at one of the three spots. A guard that played like Saffold on the right or left would give them a strong side to lean on. A veteran center would help Goff out. Better depth than Demby would help too. But even if the line is fixed this year, they will still be looking at replacing Whitworth next year and so far the guys in the house don't look like they can do it. The dam starts leaking in other areas along with Whitworth retiring. Holes at corner and DE along with Weddle and Matthews being older puts a lot of stress on Snead to fix the defense. We are looking at a few down years IMO. Too much to rebuild.

To be honest, we fans have pretty little knowledge outside of a few pre-season games about where our young depth and rookies stand or fit into the overall grand scheme. Demby looked poorly during the pre-season, although McVay chose to go with him over guys who the fanbase thought better of, ... only Evans looked worse than Demby, and even he managed a roster spot. McVay tends to sit rookies and go with players with a bit more experience so long as injury doesn't force his hand, Rapp is the lone exception this year. It took 6 games in to finally see Henderson perform. Reeder is only in due to injuries to Kiser & Hager, David Long may get his first snaps now that Talib has been IR'd, Gaines has all of 16 defensive snaps, and Edwards, Shelton & Evans have zero offensive snaps. We still don't know how long John Johnson will be absent either.
I don't really care if fellow fans want to call me a quitter, i've prepared myself now for something a little different than our high pre-season expectations. I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of the young guys getting real time developmental experience on game days, seeing who might really deserve or work themselves successfully into our future gameplans. Forget trying to buy our way out of this injury mess by selling off draft picks and let's see how the future develops right before us. It's not what we were expecting, but the cards we were dealt. We got bit, it's happened before and it will happen again, so let's try and make the best out of it. jmo.

 

[max]

To be honest, we fans have pretty little knowledge outside of a few pre-season games about where our young depth and rookies stand or fit into the overall grand scheme. Demby looked poorly during the pre-season, although McVay chose to go with him over guys who the fanbase thought better of, ... only Evans looked worse than Demby, and even he managed a roster spot. McVay tends to sit rookies and go with players with a bit more experience so long as injury doesn't force his hand, Rapp is the lone exception this year. It took 6 games in to finally see Henderson perform. Reeder is only in due to injuries to Kiser & Hager, David Long may get his first snaps now that Talib has been IR'd, Gaines has all of 16 defensive snaps, and Edwards, Shelton & Evans have zero offensive snaps. We still don't know how long John Johnson will be absent either.
I don't really care if fellow fans want to call me a quitter, i've prepared myself now for something a little different than our high pre-season expectations. I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of the young guys getting real time developmental experience on game days, seeing who might really deserve or work themselves successfully into our future gameplans. Forget trying to buy our way out of this injury mess by selling off draft picks and let's see how the future develops right before us. It's not what we were expecting, but the cards we were dealt. We got bit, it's happened before and it will happen again, so let's try and make the best out of it. jmo.

I’m also tired of selling off draft picks for players. Most times they come with warts. Whitworth was a great addition but he’s was a short term solution.

We haven’t drafted a lineman in the first round in 5 years, while the Niners were stocking up on the 1st round beef, and it shows. They killed us on the LOS.

 

[Merlin]

I’m also tired of selling off draft picks for players. Most times they come with warts. Whitworth was a great addition but he’s was a short term solution.

Yep. If we were to go get Williams we are going to lose what might be a pretty high pick for a guy who is long in the tooth and expensive to retain. By next year we might see the Skins replace him at LT with that same pick after they take a QB. Not to mention potential for injury from a guy with a history of that.

IMO we need to get back to drafting and developing with our higher picks. The Patriots don't give up every year's first round pick for vets to keep them in the hunt. They dish their vets that want big money and draft/develop. THAT is where sustained performance year-in and out lies.

 

[Merlin]

This isn't a quick fix either. I don't think the interior OLine magically gets better with reps. They need a dominant presence at one of the three spots. A guard that played like Saffold on the right or left would give them a strong side to lean on.

Looking at this OL position by position...

At Center the Rams are gonna have to ride this out with Allen and hope the ugliness we just saw isn't a downward trend. They really don't have options there short of sitting the kid and putting someone worse in there. Or overpaying for a vet which I dislike even more as an option.

At RG Blythe has not played well either and is an "after the season" evaluation and fix. He's a FA so there is going to be a hole at that position.

At RT the Rams are probably planning on inserting Edwards and moving Hav inside to RG. That said there is no way I'd want to put Edwards out there right now when I see the list of edge rushers he'd face down the stretch. This is probably an after the season deal as well where they can get Edwards' feet right if that's the move they make.

At LT we need to ride Whit the rest of the schedule as he is still playing at a starting level (he has drawn a murder's row of tough assignments so his PFF grade and all that is BS however age is undefeated). LT is going to be our most critical need this offseason but for now it is what it is.

LG is the one position they need to sort now. Their options are trading for help (which is always an overpay during the season) or looking in-house for a fix. Re: the in-house fix options you have Edwards and Brewer IMO. Demby is not an option. If they keep putting him out there our season is over.

 

[Malibu]

I’m also tired of selling off draft picks for players. Most times they come with warts. Whitworth was a great addition but he’s was a short term solution.

We haven’t drafted a lineman in the first round in 5 years, while the Niners were stocking up on the 1st round beef, and it shows. They killed us on the LOS.

Basically only the top 3 picks in each round gave a chance to make a difference and that is not even a guarantee. Trading a draft pick for a sure thing is worth it we are buying success not a maybe or failure that the draft.

 

[Ellard80]

Sorry just my OP... but blaming McVay is... beyond silly to me.

I'm not saying he is perfect... but people say he passess too much... so this game we run a lot. If anything its worse. The O-line gets physically dominated, Goff misses a wide open TD (for like the 5th time).

McVay for me is reason about 30 as to why the team is 3-3.

 

[snackdaddy]

Believe me, there is plenty of blame to go around. On a day the offense puts up 34 points(The defense added 6 for 40 points) they lose the game. The offense got into Zuerline's chip shot range and he misses. The defense plays well enough last game but the offense got totally shut down after the opening drive.

They are finding new and exciting ways to lose games. There was a time when they found ways to win those games. So who's to blame? McVay? He certainly has not been able to adjust to what defense are now doing to them. Whitworth? He is certainly have a bad season. Havenstein? See Whitworth. The defense? They aren't that good but not any worse than last year.

The team has lost its edge. It used to know how to win. Now its like they forgot how to. If I had to point to one thing, it has to be the offensive line. PFF has them ranked 31st. Last year they were top 5. McVay can't figure out how the overcome the poor line play.

 

[Rams43]

I, too, favor keeping our picks and cap space for ‘20 while riding out ‘19 as best we can.

It’s the far better long term strategy. Otherwise, we’re gonna be trapped in endlessly trading for aged and expensive vets.

Besides, it’s not as if we’re one player away from a SB anymore.

 

[PhillyRam]

Sorry just my OP... but blaming McVay is... beyond silly to me.

I'm not saying he is perfect... but people say he passess too much... so this game we run a lot. If anything its worse. The O-line gets physically dominated, Goff misses a wide open TD (for like the 5th time).

McVay for me is reason about 30 as to why the team is 3-3.

Agree, but he has struggled dealing with the 6 man front. Unfortunately after showing life in Seattle, he loses Noteboom.

And my comment was about what he needs to do to move from the good coach to the great coach category.

Bellicheck has been able to mask injuries or lack of talent and still win big. McVay has to show something here that he can at least weather this season and injury situation and keep the Rams relevant if he is the next great coach.