for 2014 - Why not Hill?

[Thordaddy]

I just don't agree with the bold part. Absolutely, our defense dominated this game and they are the strength of this team.

But the team won. Take away those points that we put up on them, let their offense remain patient and it's a different game entirely. Heck, I think even the two-point conversion that we got following their own failed attempt at a punt fake was a tremendous affect on the momentum of the game as a whole.

Others may not agree, but I bet Williams will thank Shottenheimer at the end of the game for helping to achieve two shut-outs in a row.

Could our offense be better? Absolutely, but I do think the offensive line needs to continue to be developed before we can see what major affect any quarterback or coordinator has on the team.

I agree that without us scoring on offense even the Washington offense would eventually score or their defense or special teams would ,and further that a huge part of why we scored was because our defense didn't allow a play inside the red zone , the bolded part was in reference to numbers only , my point was pretty well the same , and even more than just that it was not just a team win but to that if we were going to attribute the win to a player and what he did ( which you can't) the QB wasn't alone in advancing the idea .
It was the Rams who won yesterday and it was a pretty balanced team effort and that either of our QB's benefiting from that team effort would not have had the pressure to score would have been able to manage not to lose the game and done enough good things to not be seen as having held the team back, in fact without replaying the whole game I can think of at least three passes that our recs. made catches where they had to turn around to catch the ball or the ball was behind them and they made above average catches .

On the o-line , I'm good with drafting a guard 1st round if there is one who we rank as a value OR trading down if there is a good chance we can get one and recoup some choices.

I think R&G summed the situation up pretty well, if you want to evaluate QB's you can't go to the w-l column legitimately without considering the play of our D and the caliber of the D they each faced .
I'd be OK with Hill as our 2a, and Davis as 2b next year but if I was making the decision I'd go the opposite and give Davis some more time ,hell once the numbers indicate we are completely out of it, I'd probably get Davis in some more this year and see what he could do with the kind of defensive effort we are getting since Long has come back, if Fisher doesn't do that I don't think Davis will be back next year. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some of Keenum either .

ALL THAT SAID, when Sam went down I was sure we had no chance of competing outside the division even if we had the success inside we IMO will have , as the shock wore off I considered that IF we lived up to billing on defense and the recs. were enough better this year Stacy picked up where he left off ,our special teams played above average Hill could do what it takes to have a wild card shot not much more. But those things didn't happen for Davis, Mason blossomed, the special teams did some good things and the defense became dominant for Hill and it is my expectation that had Davis had the same support as Hill clearly has had , this thread would never have existed Davis would never have been benched and we'd be at least two game better than we are now and some would think he was the QB of the future ,not sure that I would be among them.
I am however pretty sure though that Hill's future is not going to be as a starter in anyone's plans for next year especially ours because next year will be Fisher's make or break year he has already said next year he's expecting Sam back and that if a QB is going to determine a lot about his destiny it won't be Shaun.

 

[RamzFanz]

@Thordaddy - I'm pretty sure the mudslinging started with "this is more about "I was right , you were wrong".

Hill is better than AD on this team. On another team, with a strong O line, maybe not. Just my opinion. That's always been my opinion. Not that Hill is "better" so much as better on this team.

Hill is better because, despite your perception of his mobility, he works the pocket and delivers. When he scrambles, he is more successful than AD. It's his poise that keeps him from getting sacked every down, not the O line. This is the same O line as Davis had (well, weaker actually) but the results are vastly different.

You may want to consider that a lot of that scoring that you are blaming on the defense, 36 points of it, were directly from AD pick sixes. Then more came from drives off interceptions.

If Davis picks up on Hill's ability to read defenses, pick up blitzes, keep his eyes downfield, and stay poised in the pocket, he will be a far better QB because he has an arm Hill doesn't have. Long term I would bet on AD as a potential starter if I had to choose because we DO pretty much know Hill's limits. I choose Bradford, though, with Hill as his backup if we can keep him. AD is a project at this point, not a backup.

In 2015 the Rams are going to field one hell of a team especially if they dramatically improve the O line. That team is perfect for Bradford and more than good enough to win with Hill IMO. They both know the system and have the trust of their team. Then I would add a QB with potential as a future starter and, with both Bradford and Hill on the team as mentors, that could be AD. He did make some damn impressive throws. If Hill had that arm, forget about it.

 

[-X-]

How about this?

Root for the guy under center and may the best man win.

All this petty bullshit about who's better, and trying to make one QB look worse than the other (not singling anyone out), is beneath us.

 

[Boffo97]

How about this?

Root for the guy under center and may the best man win.

All this petty bullcrap about who's better, and trying to make one QB look worse than the other (not singling anyone out), is beneath us.

So much this.

Besides, we all know that the Rams' QBs can only play QB because it currently amuses Lord Hekker to let them think they're better at it than him.

All hail Lord Hekker.

 

[-X-]

So much this.

Besides, we all know that the Rams' QBs can only play QB because it currently amuses Lord Hekker to let them think they're better at it than him.

All hail Lord Hekker.

 

[jrry32]

You have a great memory of mistakes he makes and a short memory of the many good plays he made that were called back. I acknowledge his mistakes. HE played well enough to win by a big margin even with his mistakes. He didn't miss the defender on the blocked FG, he didn't get the 2 TD's called back, he didn't cause any of the many penalties that negated his good passes, he didn't even miss the pass rusher on his blind side from behind that strip sacked him.

If you think you're going to find a QB that can avoid a free running blind side strip sack from the back, good luck with that.

Hill is a backup. I would never want to start a season thinking he has to play the whole season. But to say he played a bad game is just silly. He played well enough to win with even a single penalty not happening.

He played a bad game. You're making excuses. The penalties happen. That's football. It sucks because he made good plays. But those penalties didn't cause him to turn the ball over three times.

He did not play well. He did not play well enough to win. I have a fine memory when it comes to the plays he made. Especially the ones called back. But in the game of football, the mistakes you make as a QB are killer. Turning it over three times is a major issue. And that's without considering the context of the turnovers. The fact that his third turnovers happened where and when it did is inexcusable.

He stunk that day. I don't care if it was Bradford, Davis, Hill, Manning, etc. I'm going to call a spade a spade. Hill played a shitty game and cost us the game on the final play.

If Davis had the same sort of game, you would not consider justifying it.

Is the strip sack solely his fault? No. There are a lot of people at fault...but he still coughed the ball up.

But no matter how you slice it Hill's age matters. I love the guy and appreciate what he's doing, however he's old with a weak arm. Rams need to reload the position with better talent and upside. IMO.

I agree. I'd take Hill back...as a 3rd QB. But not our #2 behind Bradford.

 

[jrry32]

Major difference. And again, this assumes that they win out and finish 9-7, but the 2013 team didn't have a winning record and they closed out the season with double digit losses in 3 of their last 5 games. Plus the 2013 team didn't have as many losses where many believe they very well could have won like the 2014 team.

Finally, I'm a huge Sam Bradford fan. I'll acknowledge that he seems to have better arm talent and accuracy than both Hill and Davis. However, both Hill and Davis are better playmakers / improvisers when things don't the way they are planned which happens quite a bit in this league. On top of that, no one is going to be able to convince me that Bradford comes back after missing 25 regular season games in 2015 playing balls out (not mentally favoring that knee).

I don't think anyone really knows. That's why we need the OL to be a strong unit. If Bradford trusts his protection, he's more likely to trust his knee.

 

[Thordaddy]

[B]@Thordaddy[/B] - I'm pretty sure the mudslinging started with "this is more about "I was right , you were wrong".
.

I quit reading here and think X gave some good advice on the subject , it's pretty well forgone conclusion of mine that this started far before that and is a continuation .
As I said the escalation though is the problem so unless you directly quote me I'm taking the advice ,we can agree to disagree.

 

[Thordaddy]

I don't think anyone really knows. That's why we need the OL to be a strong unit. If Bradford trusts his protection, he's more likely to trust his knee.

Yeah and I want to see a Jim Hart type knee brace on that knee, I was thinking about how good this team could have been if the defense was playing ( and JMO the thing that has changed the most there is the tackling ) and we had Sam who can sling a 40 yard bullet back there . I have visions of a number one seed . As far as the o-line hail yes draft a guard if the value is there first round

 

[Memphis Ram]

The jury isn't out on Davis. He's not a starter in this league. I'm sorry but unless he has an epiphany, the guy just isn't good enough.

Also, Davis is a RFA so he'll likely make about as much as Hill is making this year.

A kids starts his first 8 NFL games EVER and the jury isn't out? Gazooks. The guy is basically a rookie. Did we really expect to see a finished product so soon?

 

[RamFan503]

How about this?

Root for the guy under center and may the best man win.

All this petty bullcrap about who's better, and trying to make one QB look worse than the other (not singling anyone out), is beneath us.

Novel thought. Let's do THAT.

BTW - I think you have to play Hill for the remainder of the season unless he does something to change that. This winning feeling is something the Rams need to get used to and set their mind to the fact that they are a very good team on the rise. You don't mess with that because you want to see what someone else might have. If however, the coaches want to see something and put Davis in, I will hope he really shows potential once again and pray that the potential is in winning games. That is them most important thing for me - not just because I like watching the Rams win but because I think if they play winning football from here out, it will roll into next season.

I think we are watching most of our starting line-up for next year. That means these same guys will be lining up next to each other doing what they KNOW works. IMO you simply have to play the players that give you the best chance to win games. Come next season, the QBs will once again duke it out in the pre-season and I will get behind the QB that gives us the best chance to win games. Hill? Davis? Bradford? Rookie? Don't really care.

As to Bradford having all the leverage, I don't buy it. I believe Sam has already received his $3.95 mil signing bonus. That leaves us on the hook for $13 mil to keep him. That means another team would have to offer him probably a fair bit more than his contracted $13 mil before he would want to pull up stakes. He could just rebuff any restructure negotiations but restructures happen all the time and I think Sam will be yet another one. I am guessing the Rams will do a restructure and extension and that deal will include some sort of incentive base. I would have to guess that Sam wants to win and he sees what is going on here lately. He has a lot of friends in that locker room. He is our #1 QB without question - really. So politically, it wouldn't involve any pressure at all on anyone if he came back as our #1. A first round rookie would fall in behind him without question. Shaun Hill - even if he lights it up would no doubt understand completely. Davis would certainly know his role. And so would likely any other QB we could hope to land as a back-up.

So I can see Sam either restructuring or just letting his contract ride. But the Rams do have some leverage in that they are on the rise, are familiar, and would likely offer Sam top QB incentives in a new deal. That is likely what he is going to see from another team as they will want to protect themselves from being burned. I also believe that the Rams would deny other teams the right to speak to Sam or examine his knee unless they cut him outright.

 

[jrry32]

A kids starts his first 8 NFL games EVER and the jury isn't out? Gazooks. The guy is basically a rookie. Did we really expect to see a finished product so soon?

Didn't take me 8 games to figure out Blaine Gabbert didn't have the ability. With certain guys, you just see the issues. And then you come to the realization at some point or another that it's likely not changing.

The guy is not basically a rookie. He's a third year pro. I get that he's a first year starter but I saw more than enough to come to my conclusion on him.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Didn't take me 8 games to figure out Blaine Gabbert didn't have the ability. With certain guys, you just see the issues. And then you come to the realization at some point or another that it's likely not changing.

The guy is not basically a rookie. He's a third year pro. I get that he's a first year starter but I saw more than enough to come to my conclusion on him.

He's basically a rookie to me given that he hadn't seen any regular season action until this year.

 

[jrry32]

He's basically a rookie to me given that he hadn't seen any regular season action until this year.

Well, that's great. I still think the jury is in on the guy. He's not a starting caliber QB.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Really? That's why the Rams lost against the Chargers? He didn't do enough?

Thing is we lost several games several very close games this year. I think we win half of them with Hill starting, but we really did need to see what we had with Davis.

 

[RamzFanz]

Thing is we lost several games several very close games this year. I think we win half of them with Hill starting, but we really did need to see what we had with Davis.

Kurt Warner - (paraphrasing) Hill has played really well and brought a new dynamic to the team. He won't make every throw but he's willing to go down field and press defenses. The key is finding the right fit for you.

http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well, that's great. I still think the jury is in on the guy. He's not a starting caliber QB.

Ok.

 

[RamzFanz]

I quit reading here and think X gave some good advice on the subject , it's pretty well forgone conclusion of mine that this started far before that and is a continuation .
As I said the escalation though is the problem so unless you directly quote me I'm taking the advice ,we can agree to disagree.

X always gives good advice. Everyone should get behind the team.

I want nothing but the best for Davis, appreciate and celebrated his successes many times with no reservations, and hope he can gain from the experience around him and become a starter one day. Dude has an arm that is sick. SICK.

Let's all move forward with these great wins and shutouts and stop dwelling on the past. What will come will come.

Go Rams!