Easy to figure out what is wrong with D

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

ausmurp

Starter
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
569
We lost two of the best defensive players in the NFL, both underrated, in Mikel and Dunbar. Both were rated as top 15 in the entire NFL at their position (don't have the link and don't remember the site, either ESPN or that stat site that does all the crazy rankings).

These guys clearly were more important than we thought. I hope Fisher realizes this quickly and resigns Dunbar - if he'll accept our apology. Also we should sign Kerry Rhodes, the dude was ranked higher than Mikel and is still a FA.

On offense, it is easy to see the problem as well. Dropped passes especially on 3rd down are plaguing us this year. Quick dropped one, and OMG on the drop by Givens running an inside post, he had just the safety to beat for a TD on that one.
 

CGI_Ram

Hamburger Connoisseur
Moderator
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
48,182
Name
Burger man
ausmurp said:
We lost two of the best defensive players in the NFL, both underrated, in Mikel and Dunbar. Both were rated as top 15 in the entire NFL at their position (don't have the link and don't remember the site, either ESPN or that stat site that does all the crazy rankings).

These guys clearly were more important than we thought. I hope Fisher realizes this quickly and resigns Dunbar - if he'll accept our apology. Also we should sign Kerry Rhodes, the dude was ranked higher than Mikel and is still a FA.

On offense, it is easy to see the problem as well. Dropped passes especially on 3rd down are plaguing us this year. Quick dropped one, and OMG on the drop by Givens running an inside post, he had just the safety to beat for a TD on that one.

I keep saying this; if Dunbar was such a key cog in our defense then what the hell are we paying Long, Laurenitius, and Finnegan +$10 million/yr?

I like Dunbar. I want him back. But this defense has a LOAD of premium-picks and dollars invested in it. Something is wrong beside the players - or Snead has failed big time.
 

Selassie I

H. I. M.
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
17,678
Name
Haole
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
97
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.
I hope you're right. I got great tickets to that game and I don't want to regret buying them!
 

Speeps

Starter
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
899
One word: Effort.

Fisher say they are displaying effort. I dont believe it. They don't look good. Soft as fuzzcckzz
 

RamzFanz

Damnit
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
9,029
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.

You should use blue text for sarcasm. Playing 10 yards off isn't better suited for anything except getting higher draft picks.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
RamzFanz said:
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.

You should use blue text for sarcasm. Playing 10 yards off isn't better suited for anything except getting higher draft picks.
Do you really think press man coverage is the best approach against an offense that uses its receivers to clear out so the QB can take off running? All you get is all of the defenders with their backs to the line of scrimmage in that case. Sorry, but this is going to be very disappointing to everyone who expects a 180 change in the defense this week. I think we're going to see a lot of quarters alignments.
 

RamzFanz

Damnit
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
9,029
X said:
RamzFanz said:
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.

You should use blue text for sarcasm. Playing 10 yards off isn't better suited for anything except getting higher draft picks.
Do you really think press man coverage is the best approach against an offense that uses its receivers to clear out so the QB can take off running? All you get is all of the defenders with their backs to the line of scrimmage in that case. Sorry, but this is going to be very disappointing to everyone who expects a 180 change in the defense this week. I think we're going to see a lot of quarters alignments.

If you play 10 yards off on 3rd and 6, you lose. You don't have to play man coverage to not give up 6-8 yards unchallenged.
 

MTRamsFan

Montana is God's Country
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
4,048
Name
Greg
My two cents for Thursday against the Whiners... Man up on the outside receivers with Finnegan and Jenkins. Put Johnson on Boldin (big on big) and blitz the f*ck out of Kaeperdick. I would also bring McLeod down into the box to thump on Gore, because coach crybaby will want to run the ball after our breakdown against the run yesterday, and because Gore is crying about getting only 11 carries against the Colts. And when they want to go big with their two and three tight-end sets, then we counter and take out McLeod and bring in Ray Ray. He's a converted strong safety so you know he can cover and you bring in a guy who will knock your kaeper"dick" in the ground :spz:
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
RamzFanz said:
X said:
RamzFanz said:
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.

You should use blue text for sarcasm. Playing 10 yards off isn't better suited for anything except getting higher draft picks.
Do you really think press man coverage is the best approach against an offense that uses its receivers to clear out so the QB can take off running? All you get is all of the defenders with their backs to the line of scrimmage in that case. Sorry, but this is going to be very disappointing to everyone who expects a 180 change in the defense this week. I think we're going to see a lot of quarters alignments.

If you play 10 yards off on 3rd and 6, you lose. You don't have to play man coverage to not give up 6-8 yards unchallenged.
We're talking about something entirely different now then. Because I was talking about the defensive philosophy that we should use against a read-option offense. You're talking about generalities now. And I still disagree that off-coverage is a death sentence no matter what the circumstance might be. Discipline, situational awareness, and gap integrity will make most any team that runs a 4-3 zone defense very dangerous. And not for nothing, but this defense doesn't play 10 yards off the ball on every third down. Once they get more disciplined, everybody is going to forget about their personal gripes as it relates to what they see relative to pre snap coverage. These coaches aren't putting the defense in a position to lose because they have some twisted desire to make them fail. I mean ... think about it.
 

albefree69

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
4,512
Name
Alan
X talking up zone defenses:
We're talking about something entirely different now then. Because I was talking about the defensive philosophy that we should use against a read-option offense. You're talking about generalities now. And I still disagree that off-coverage is a death sentence no matter what the circumstance might be. Discipline, situational awareness, and gap integrity will make most any team that runs a 4-3 zone defense very dangerous. And not for nothing, but this defense doesn't play 10 yards off the ball on every third down. Once they get more disciplined, everybody is going to forget about their personal gripes as it relates to what they see relative to pre snap coverage. These coaches aren't putting the defense in a position to lose because they have some twisted desire to make them fail. I mean ... think about it.

Even if what you say here is true and I don't believe that it is, Fisher has not shown that he can do it successfully against good QBs. That's when he was coaching the Titans too. It can work against lesser QBs like it did last year but when has it worked against a good QB?

BTW, I don't consider Wilson and Kapernoodle to be good QBs.

To get back to your point about zone Ds being good, I think that isn't true anymore. You'd know this better than me but isn't the crossing routes in the middle of the field the soft spot for zone Ds? When you could hit the defenseless WRs it was a big help for zones. With the new rules not so much.

The other point which I've mentioned in the past and so have others, is that our CBs are better suited to play press coverage IMO.

For the coup de grace, what did Holt say about this subject. Holt holds a lot of sway with me.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
albefree69 said:
X talking up zone defenses:
We're talking about something entirely different now then. Because I was talking about the defensive philosophy that we should use against a read-option offense. You're talking about generalities now. And I still disagree that off-coverage is a death sentence no matter what the circumstance might be. Discipline, situational awareness, and gap integrity will make most any team that runs a 4-3 zone defense very dangerous. And not for nothing, but this defense doesn't play 10 yards off the ball on every third down. Once they get more disciplined, everybody is going to forget about their personal gripes as it relates to what they see relative to pre snap coverage. These coaches aren't putting the defense in a position to lose because they have some twisted desire to make them fail. I mean ... think about it.

Even if what you say here is true and I don't believe that it is, Fisher has not shown that he can do it successfully against good QBs. That's when he was coaching the Titans too. It can work against lesser QBs like it did last year but when has it worked against a good QB?

BTW, I don't consider Wilson and Kapernoodle to be good QBs.

To get back to your point about zone Ds being good, I think that isn't true anymore. You'd know this better than me but isn't the crossing routes in the middle of the field the soft spot for zone Ds? When you could hit the defenseless WRs it was a big help for zones. With the new rules not so much.

The other point which I've mentioned in the past and so have others, is that our CBs are better suited to play press coverage IMO.

For the coup de grace, what did Holt say about this subject. Holt holds a lot of sway with me.
I'm not saying that zone doesn't have its vulnerabilities, because it does. But then again, so does every defense. All I'm saying is that I saw (as did Doc) execution breakdowns when I slowed the game down to a crawl. And again, that's not the only defensive alignment they run. It's not a pure zone defense by any stretch. Jenkins, for instance, plays press a lot on the outside in 2-WR sets. We've also seen these great QBs you mentioned exploit the instances we were in man coverage to the tune of instant TDs.

A lot of people would be demanding some cushion for guys like Jones and Fitzgerald if our DBs got torched repeatedly in man coverage (remember Torrey Smith?). I think the coaches should concentrate on making this work via numerous reps and tons of film study, and not try to do something that fans think is the right call because a couple of our corners earned the title of "physical." It takes much more than being physical to play mainly press.

It's just not as simple as saying, "Scrap that, and do this." I appreciate guys like Holt, Venturi, and whoever else is piling on, but how much do they really see outside of the 3 hours they're looking at the game? And even then. How much do they REALLY see?
 

Rabid Ram

Legend
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
7,360
Name
Dustin
X said:
albefree69 said:
X talking up zone defenses:
We're talking about something entirely different now then. Because I was talking about the defensive philosophy that we should use against a read-option offense. You're talking about generalities now. And I still disagree that off-coverage is a death sentence no matter what the circumstance might be. Discipline, situational awareness, and gap integrity will make most any team that runs a 4-3 zone defense very dangerous. And not for nothing, but this defense doesn't play 10 yards off the ball on every third down. Once they get more disciplined, everybody is going to forget about their personal gripes as it relates to what they see relative to pre snap coverage. These coaches aren't putting the defense in a position to lose because they have some twisted desire to make them fail. I mean ... think about it.

Even if what you say here is true and I don't believe that it is, Fisher has not shown that he can do it successfully against good QBs. That's when he was coaching the Titans too. It can work against lesser QBs like it did last year but when has it worked against a good QB?

BTW, I don't consider Wilson and Kapernoodle to be good QBs.

To get back to your point about zone Ds being good, I think that isn't true anymore. You'd know this better than me but isn't the crossing routes in the middle of the field the soft spot for zone Ds? When you could hit the defenseless WRs it was a big help for zones. With the new rules not so much.

The other point which I've mentioned in the past and so have others, is that our CBs are better suited to play press coverage IMO.

For the coup de grace, what did Holt say about this subject. Holt holds a lot of sway with me.
I'm not saying that zone doesn't have its vulnerabilities, because it does. But then again, so does every defense. All I'm saying is that I saw (as did Doc) execution breakdowns when I slowed the game down to a crawl. And again, that's not the only defensive alignment they run. It's not a pure zone defense by any stretch. Jenkins, for instance, plays press a lot on the outside in 2-WR sets. We've also seen these great QBs you mentioned exploit the instances we were in man coverage to the tune of instant TDs.

A lot of people would be demanding some cushion for guys like Jones and Fitzgerald if our DBs got torched repeatedly in man coverage (remember Torrey Smith?). I think the coaches should concentrate on making this work via numerous reps and tons of film study, and not try to do something that fans think is the right call because a couple of our corners earned the title of "physical." It takes much more than being physical to play mainly press.

It's just not as simple as saying, "Scrap that, and do this." I appreciate guys like Holt, Venturi, and whoever else is piling on, but how much do they really see outside of the 3 hours they're looking at the game? And even then. How much do they REALLY see?
This
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,809
X said:
RamzFanz said:
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.

You should use blue text for sarcasm. Playing 10 yards off isn't better suited for anything except getting higher draft picks.
Do you really think press man coverage is the best approach against an offense that uses its receivers to clear out so the QB can take off running? All you get is all of the defenders with their backs to the line of scrimmage in that case. Sorry, but this is going to be very disappointing to everyone who expects a 180 change in the defense this week. I think we're going to see a lot of quarters alignments.

There is middle ground...literally. Instead of playing press or 10 yards off...how about we just play 5 yards off?
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
jrry32 said:
X said:
RamzFanz said:
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.

You should use blue text for sarcasm. Playing 10 yards off isn't better suited for anything except getting higher draft picks.
Do you really think press man coverage is the best approach against an offense that uses its receivers to clear out so the QB can take off running? All you get is all of the defenders with their backs to the line of scrimmage in that case. Sorry, but this is going to be very disappointing to everyone who expects a 180 change in the defense this week. I think we're going to see a lot of quarters alignments.

There is middle ground...literally. Instead of playing press or 10 yards off...how about we just play 5 yards off?
We do.

But I get your point, and I agree. Some of the cushion is a big larger than I'd prefer to see at times. Then again, some of the receivers we've faced can eat up 8-10 yards in a nanosecond. There just HAS to be a reason for this. There's a combined zillion years of defensive coordinator experience on this staff right now. They're not collectively brain dead.
 

fearsomefour

Legend
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
17,101
I think the reality is that if any team played one way all the time in the NFL they would get smoked. The coaches are too good and the vet QBs who can make adjustments at the line are too good. Im sure the issues are as much about matching personel with what the D is doing and execution as scheme. I cant imagine that Fisher would bring guys in on either side of the ball that dont have sound schemes.
 

fastcat

Pro Bowler
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Messages
1,196
X said:
jrry32 said:
X said:
RamzFanz said:
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.

You should use blue text for sarcasm. Playing 10 yards off isn't better suited for anything except getting higher draft picks.
Do you really think press man coverage is the best approach against an offense that uses its receivers to clear out so the QB can take off running? All you get is all of the defenders with their backs to the line of scrimmage in that case. Sorry, but this is going to be very disappointing to everyone who expects a 180 change in the defense this week. I think we're going to see a lot of quarters alignments.

There is middle ground...literally. Instead of playing press or 10 yards off...how about we just play 5 yards off?
We do.

But I get your point, and I agree. Some of the cushion is a big larger than I'd prefer to see at times. Then again, some of the receivers we've faced can eat up 8-10 yards in a nanosecond. There just HAS to be a reason for this. There's a combined zillion years of defensive coordinator experience on this staff right now. They're not collectively brain dead.

The reason the cushion is there is obvious, its not to get beat deep, why else have the safties 15+yds deep. And yes we do mix up the coverage cushion BUT I don't care what coverage we run there is ABSOLUTELY NO excuse to be 10yds off the ball on 3rd and 3, and safties are so far off the ball u can't even see them on your tv screen. No matter If your playing cover 1, 2,3, or 4, you can still line up 2 or 3yds off your man... It's not an illegal formation, they won't throw a flag, lol.

And I am not a fan of putting any of our CBs in man coverage. I'm not confident they can cover too many top recievers 1 on 1 becuaae they are too small, except for Johnson.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 

DR RAM

Rams Lifer
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
12,111
Name
Rambeau
fastcat said:
X said:
jrry32 said:
X said:
RamzFanz said:
Selassie I said:
Our defensive scheme us gonna serve us well Thursday night. It's better suited for the whiners and shecocks.

Let's see if we're not feeling much better about our scheme after Thursday.

You should use blue text for sarcasm. Playing 10 yards off isn't better suited for anything except getting higher draft picks.
Do you really think press man coverage is the best approach against an offense that uses its receivers to clear out so the QB can take off running? All you get is all of the defenders with their backs to the line of scrimmage in that case. Sorry, but this is going to be very disappointing to everyone who expects a 180 change in the defense this week. I think we're going to see a lot of quarters alignments.

There is middle ground...literally. Instead of playing press or 10 yards off...how about we just play 5 yards off?
We do.

But I get your point, and I agree. Some of the cushion is a big larger than I'd prefer to see at times. Then again, some of the receivers we've faced can eat up 8-10 yards in a nanosecond. There just HAS to be a reason for this. There's a combined zillion years of defensive coordinator experience on this staff right now. They're not collectively brain dead.

The reason the cushion is there is obvious, its not to get beat deep, why else have the safties 15+yds deep. And yes we do mix up the coverage cushion BUT I don't care what coverage we run there is ABSOLUTELY NO excuse to be 10yds off the ball on 3rd and 3, and safties are so far off the ball u can't even see them on your tv screen. No matter If your playing cover 1, 2,3, or 4, you can still line up 2 or 3yds off your man... It's not an illegal formation, they won't throw a flag, lol.

And I am not a fan of putting any of our CBs in man coverage. I'm not confident they can cover too many top recievers 1 on 1 becuaae they are too small, except for Johnson.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
It looks to me that Tru is our BEST cover corner, and you are absolutely right, IMO, on everything else you say. !0 yard cush in goal line defense, WTF?
 

bluecoconuts

Legend
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
13,073
You don't think Jenkins can cover that well? He guesses too much probably, but I think with time if he cleans that up, his natural talent should make him really hard to throw against.