Curiosity, any QBs ever made a comeback after 2 ACL's?

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Robocop

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I really want to see Sam Bradford's potential be realized and with the Rams if possible.

It's the timeline that concerns me. I have serious doubts that 12 months is enough for a 2nd ACL tear. That means unless we are able to keep Shaun Hill as our starter or Austin Davis for the next 24 games or so (a season and a half at least), then we're talking two years. And I think it's got to be evident that the Rams are going to be THAT team that's going to want a QB. Now, if we do really well, we may look for that Rothlisberger type who'll fall to us in the mid 20s (or later, I still think this is our year, just that the journey will be more like Mr Toad's wild ride than the Emperor's March from Star Wars...), but either way, I can't fathom us NOT going after that "QB of the FUTURE". Which will put is presumably with Hill, Davis, Rookie and Bradford. Now, knowing Bradford's talent is likely the best of the bunch, that would mean losing Davis. Mmmmokay. But if we carry Bradford as the #3 while he convalesces, do we really have a "QB of the FUTURE"? And how's that supposed to work for Hill?

It's easy for us as fans to have an opinion about how the Rams should run things. Almost too easy. That said, I can understand when an organization does something like SD did when they got rid of Drew Brees. Did they want to? No. But the uncertainty was stifling AND it would have meant that they couldn't really draft that next QB. And if you're not drafting that next QB, what are you drafting? The next backup QB? You don't spend a 1st round pick on your backup QB...

I want Bradford to succeed for personal as well as fan reasons. But the timeline for his 2nd ACL...

I'm not saying it couldn't work, but this season will tell us all we need to know. If we win 9 games and Shaun Hill is the limiting factor, you can BET the Rams will get that Franchise QB in the draft (and find a way to do it without pulling an RGIII type trade...).

Which puts Bradford...where???
i know its early but thing is from what ive read idk if there's really a franchise QB in next years draft, if there's not then do you waste a high pick on a potential 'good' QB or stick with Hill again (depending on his season) and see if Bradford wants to restructure and push for a start in a year or so
 

bluecoconuts

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The way people have been talking around here I actually had to go and look to see if Bradford had been released by the Rams.

Let him recover and see what we have. If there's a good QB where we pick then take him, if not then we see what we have. Reaching for a QB will only put us back a few steps.
 

rhinobean

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Neither of Sam's injuries were from hits on the knee! Fragility is, it seems, part of his biological makeup. Love Sammy, just not the injuries he's prone to!
 

dieterbrock

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Keep in mind, Bradford is only 26 years old. His recovery time will be faster than some busted up 30 some odd QB.
The fact that there arent many examples of a QB coming back from it, is because its so rare that it ever happens.
Joe Namath played the game with busted up knees
As for RGIII, he has recovered from it. The fact that he's an over rated, over hyped prima donna has nothing to do with his physical condition
 

tahoe

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Bradford will not take a year to recover... his leg and knee muscles are already strong from the previous rehab, he knows exactly what to do, and the rehab techniques are a lot better than they were in the past. He will be ready before otas next season, mark my words. Some people seriously overreact and make it sound so much worse than what it really is
 

DCH

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Bradford will not take a year to recover... his leg and knee muscles are already strong from the previous rehab, he knows exactly what to do, and the rehab techniques are a lot better than they were in the past. He will be ready before otas next season, mark my words. Some people seriously overreact and make it sound so much worse than what it really is
A second ACL reconstruction is much less of a sure thing and a longer process than the first. I want him back next year, but to count on him implicitly would be foolhardy.
 

tahoe

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I was really down about his prospects, but after reading up on that experimental ACL surgery... I'm actually pretty hopeful (presuming he could do it). I mean if a freestyle skier's knee can survive the stresses on a 3rd ACL tear, then this surgery on a 2nd ACL tear should have an even better shot. The recovery period is less and he could be back before the COMBINE. How crazy would that be???
Id love the idea of Bradford getting a synthetic ACL in hopes of it being stronger. And the fact that she was skiing only 3 months after the injury is the craziest part for me.
 

tahoe

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A second ACL reconstruction is much less of a sure thing and a longer process than the first. I want him back next year, but to count on him implicitly would be foolhardy.
Im in no way saying he wouldnt get injured again but he will be ready in plenty of time for next season
 

junkman

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It's the timeline that concerns me. I have serious doubts that 12 months is enough for a 2nd ACL tear.

Echoing @Yamahopper , well written post. Imho, his prospects for a return to the Rams are already slim, but non-existent if the recovery timeline is more than a year. Is there something you've read that suggests a longer timeline for recovery on a 2nd tear? Or anythiing specific to Bradford for recovery time? I'm not finding anything yet. Everything I'm reading is still very general including on James Andrews site.

http://www.theandrewsinstitute.com/News/Orthopaedics/Article.aspx?id=445887

I did find this which seemed encouraging, and was from a knowledgeable source even if it wasn't from Andrews himself.
:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/spo...cle_09172407-a4bd-5819-90b0-edea14ead707.html

John E. Hoover: Hey Sam Bradford, here are some encouraging words from an ACL surgeon and your predecessor
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St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford grimaces after being hit by Cleveland Browns defensive lineman Armonty Bryant in the first quarter of a preseason game on Aug. 23, 2014. DAVID RICHARD/AP






Posted: Monday, August 25, 2014 1:47 pm | Updated: 8:25 pm, Mon Aug 25, 2014.

By JOHN E. HOOVER World Sports Columnist |0 comments

Quick, name an Oklahoma Sooners quarterback who won a Heisman Trophy and a Big 12 Conference championship and then lost a national championship to an SEC team on SEC turf who also suffered two major knee injuries.

Pretty exclusive club. Sadly, Jason White finally has company.

But Tulsa orthopedic surgeon Dr. Brad Boone, one of the nation’s preeminent knee mechanics, gives a startlingly encouraging outlook that Sam Bradford’s second ACL injury in less than a year will not be a career-ender.

“The success rate of his next surgery will be as good as his first,” Boone told the Tulsa World on Monday. “He’ll make it back.”

And with that, the 2003 Heisman winner offers some seriously sage advice to the 2008 Heisman winner.

“I would tell him to have the surgery, do the rehab and continue to work hard like he has ever since he’s played football, to continue to give it a shot,” White said in a phone conversation Monday, two days after Bradford was lost for the season with a reinjury of last year’s torn ACL. “If his heart and love are still in the game, continue to give it a shot and see what happens.

“At the end of the day, at the end of his career, he can look back and say, ‘You know what? I tried. I decided to come back from my second surgery and I was successful,’ or, ‘It just didn’t work out.’ You know, leave no question if he does work through it and rehab and try to come back and play.

“If he were to just hang it up — which I can’t imagine him doing — he would always have that question in his mind, you know, ‘I wonder if I had had the surgery and rehabbed and come back, would I still be playing?’ ”

Bradford’s injury is believed to be an isolated ACL tear, meaning his cartilage structures (medial meniscus, lateral meniscus) and other ligaments (lateral collateral, medial collateral, posterior cruciate) — are undamaged. The anterior cruciate ligament is the central and strongest ligament in the knee that holds together the femur (thigh bone) and tibia (shin bone).

In modern ACL reconstruction, tunnels are drilled into the femur and tibia (arthroscopically at the origin and insertion of the torn ACL), through which a tendon graft from the athlete’s knee (the patellar tendon or hamstring tendons) or similar tendons from a cadaver are passed and secured with absorbable bone screws, thus recreating a new ACL. Recovery time is usually between 6-12 months, depending on the rehab process.

“As far as putting another ACL graft in his knee in a good way and recovering, I think his success rate would be as good as it would be with his primary, which is about 95 percent success rate,” Boone said. “But, it’s not 100. I mean, he’s not the first athlete that’s re-torn his ACL the first year or two back.”

Although their magic number is two, there’s a major difference between Bradford and White: White injured his left knee in 2001, then his right in 2002. Bradford has injured his left knee twice.

Both of Bradford’s injuries involved contact — a moderate hit from the front and side this time while planting and throwing, and an awkward tackle from behind while running last time — while both of White’s were non-contact injuries. Still, White’s knees sustained far more collateral damage than Bradford’s, and advancements in surgical techniques during the past decade should give Bradford more hope that he can return fairly soon and at nearly full strength.

“I think when you re-do an ACL that’s been done in a good way, like (by) Dr. (James) Andrews — the tunnels where that ACL was placed, I’m sure, were in the right position. To revise that ACL is much easier when the first surgery was done in a good way and done correctly. There are more surgeons in America that are able to do really technically good ACL reconstructions, and we don’t see as many problems with tunnels that are malpostitioned or technically poor grafts. We don’t see the technical issues that led to failures of ACLs 20 years ago. Revising Sam Bradford’s, you would use the same tunnels.

“Now, you’re gonna have to find a different graft. There are other graft options that would be very good and would be close to what he had in his patellar tendon on that knee. He can take his other patellar tendon. He probably won’t want to do that. (That’s two simultaneous major knee surgeries; a challenging recovery). He can use a cadaver. And he can use the hamstring tendon with or without a cadaver as well. There are graft options that are still very good. I think revising Sam’s ACL, having been done by Andrews, would be fairly easy, really. It would almost be like the primary (surgery).”

Andrews pioneered knee reconstruction for athletes and has been the leading figure in the field for three decades. Boone has served fellowships under Andrews’ tutelage.

“Technically, it’s not really gonna be a challenge to redo that ACL,” Boone said. “I mean, I do ‘em all the time and it’s not a challenge. If the tunnels are a little bit off and you’ve got to do some things, it could be more of a challenge. But with Sam’s, I think it’s gonna be more straightforward. It’s just gonna be finding a graft.”

At OU, Bradford had the reputation of being the hardest-working player on the team. The assumption then is that that work ethic guided him through his rehab — in other words, he didn’t slack off, despite ongoing reports that he was behind schedule and, after 10 months, simply wasn’t ready to return to play.

“I’m sure he did everything perfectly,” Boone said. “The kid’s a great kid. I mean, he had all the support and help and trainers and therapists and conditioning coaches. I’m sure he did everything perfectly. Just one of those things that happens.”

Call it unlucky or snake-bit or injury prone or whatever, White knows that feeling. He lived many, many dark days all alone in the athletic training room.

“I try not to think about that,” White said with a laugh. “But even now, I wouldn’t do it any different if I could do it all again. Because those dark days in the training room, in that building all alone, I think it made me a better person. It made me a better player. And it made me realize, if you want something, you’ve got to work hard to go get it. So I wouldn’t trade that for anything. I just don’t reflect on those memories because, you know, you’re right, they were dark.

“When you’re driving to the training room to do rehab, you’re always thinking, ‘Am I doing this for nothing? Am I going up here and working out for two hours for nothing?’ But pushing through that, overcoming that, it sure paid off at the end.”

A year after his second comeback, White won the Heisman, then led the Sooners to two straight national title game appearances. His NFL dreams never got going because, after mini-camp with the Kansas City Chiefs and training camp with the Tennessee Titans in 2005, he found he couldn’t get under center to receive a snap without debilitating pain.

There’s another big difference. Bradford got his big NFL payday as the No. 1 pick in the 2010 draft — a guaranteed $50 million — before his knee was ruined. White never got paid.

But that’s OK, White said. He still wouldn’t trade his pain. At 34, he now realizes how rare and special were his deeds.

“Billy (Sims) and Steve (Owens) remind me of it all the time,” White said of his best pals and 1977 and 1969 OU Heisman winners. “Because they both had ACL surgery and that’s what ended their career (both were running backs with the Detroit Lions). They always bring up the fact that I had two ACLs before I won the Heisman and how blessed I was.

“I look back at my career and I’m just so happy I have been blessed to play on such great teams and play for such a great coach and play at such a great university with such unbelievable fans.

“I just feel horrible for Sam.”



Read John E. Hoover's blog

tulsaworld.com/johnehoover
 

Robocop

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Neither of Sam's injuries were from hits on the knee! Fragility is, it seems, part of his biological makeup. Love Sammy, just not the injuries he's prone to!
since when do you need to have your knee slammed to tear an ACL? he had 300 lbs draped on him and his foot got planted and his knee bent backwards. and sorry but there's no medical diagnosis for 'fragility', its not biological its really shitty bad luck. a high ankle sprain and blowing the same ACL twice doesn't make you fragile especially since his first couple years he was one of the most hit QBs in the league.
 

BadCompany

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Even if he comes back - and there is no reason why he can't be healthy enough to do so - the question will always be " for how long?" I'm not going to get into a "is he injury prone or not" debate but the fact is the organization cannot go yet another year without its number one QB. We don't have one this year, and if Bradford were to come back in 2015 and then go down AGAIN... There HAS to be a contingency plan. There just has to be. And barring some Hollywood-esque storyline I don't think it can be a 35 year old Shaun Hill. Maybe its Gilbert. Maybe they think that with a year and change of experience he can be The Future. If not, then I think they HAVE to draft a QB high.

Perhaps the solution is to draft one in the second round. If they want to give Sam another chance there won't be as much pressure to make the New Guy the Day 1 starter, but a second rounder should hopefully have enough talent to still be considered a potential and viable starter if and when Bradford goes down again.

Of course all this ignores the cap ramifications that will undoubtedly come into play. I do not envy the front office and the hard decisions they will have to make. With LA looming this organization cannot survive two more years of lost hope.
 

tahoe

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I agree that the rams will have to get a young viable option to compete with Bradford next year. That guy is not on the roster currently.
 

rhinobean

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since when do you need to have your knee slammed to tear an ACL? he had 300 lbs draped on him and his foot got planted and his knee bent backwards. and sorry but there's no medical diagnosis for 'fragility', its not biological its really crappy bad luck. a high ankle sprain and blowing the same ACL twice doesn't make you fragile especially since his first couple years he was one of the most hit QBs in the league.
Tell that to my granddaughter who's had acl surgery and ankle tears just from playing softball!. It is biological/inherited! You see when Sam injured his shoulder at OK? He bumped into his own lineman!
 

Tweed335

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Agree with you 100%. Love Bradford but there's no way we can count on him to be our only real option at QB. If we get him super cheap for a one year deal then keep him and use him to help develop whatever rookie we draft next year, or maybe even have him play next year and if he goes down yet again put in the rookie. That would be a win win situation in my opinion.

Someone else on here mentioned this but it was so nerve wracking watching Bradford so far this year cause we were all afraid he'd get injured again. Now that fear is going to be even stronger, and I think most of us don't want to have to worry about that, none to mention how the coaches might feel.

You know, in a way it's almost freeing. I don't know about you, but my expectations aren't what they were a week ago so any success we experience this year is gravy, imo.
 

the zohan

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Id love the idea of Bradford getting a synthetic ACL in hopes of it being stronger. And the fact that she was skiing only 3 months after the injury is the craziest part for me.

Hers was a combination of synthetic and cadaver. Very interesting technology.
 

Robocop

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Tell that to my granddaughter who's had acl surgery and ankle tears just from playing softball!. It is biological/inherited! You see when Sam injured his shoulder at OK? He bumped into his own lineman!
NO it is not. just like an orthopedic doctor said the other day on the radio when the sports DJ was shit talking Bradford for having bad genes. If he had a generic disposition to getting injuries he never would have made it into the NFL. a job that has required him to be violently hit THOUSANDS of times since he first picked up a football. OK??
 

tbux

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Im betting Sam comes back- surely we have to have another option ready- but I bet Sam is the type to overcome. Good kid- hard worker- doubt he wants to go out like this. I would even bet he would agree to an performance based contract of some sorts. Just my guess. I am certainly pulling for him- terrible luck thus far. Hope he comes back and beats the odds.
 

CodeMonkey

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I don't really know myself, and like most, the shortest answer to your post is: NO

Bottom line is hope: 'what we must do' and all that; once a team goes through the 5 phases of grief is to embrace the next step.

Essentially: We could bring Bradford back as a camp body at a lower price (which I'm not against), however the most likely is to draft for the future.

I am (was) a huge Bradford supporter. Lets face facts though! He's not here today, and probably gonna be gone tomorrow!

I thought the dude was gonna resurrect the franchise with both physical and cognitive skill. I loved his size and thought, of all spread QB's that could translate to a Pro Qb, Bradford would. For all I know, he will.

However!! The fatal fact, as solemn, as it may be: It Is Time To Put a QB Behind This Awesome Team!

I agree with supporters who said Bradford was good but lacked a supporting cast. The next QB will be in a much better situation, IMO!
Welcome aboard, Tweed! Love your Robert Johnson avatar.
 

LACHAMP46

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Well, I love Hundley from UCLA, but he'll likely go too high. That said, I think the kid, Hogan, from Stanford has really good mechanics other than that windup and I think he'd THRIVE in our offense. Plus, they run a full pro set at Stanford, so he'd likely do pretty well getting up to speed in Schotty's offense.
Not real hyped on Hundley, and that's tough cause I love the Bruins & that team...He's a great college QB but his skill-set doesn't scream pro QB....Don't like his throwing motion, and don't like the way he scans the field....Hogan I do like...stout kid, from a pro-style offense....He'd be perfect...That's another thing, this team is ready to win now....Guys from those spread offenses in college may have a slow transition....But I like the guy at Oregon St. and Bryce Petty from Baylor....Really, lets get a 2nd rounder. And have him ready to compete....I still believe Sam comes back at a reduced deal....
I agree that the rams will have to get a young viable option to compete with Bradford next year. That guy is not on the roster currently.
So, you don't believe in Austin Davis? He sure looked good, but I feel ya....I still wanna give him a chance....I'd guarantee he'll probably need to play. Our line needs time to jell...Hill is gonna get hit..a bunch.
 

tahoe

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Davis has done nothing to me to indicate that he can be a starting QB in the NFL.