CB Over FS High

[mr.stlouis]

No doubt I beleive the Rams will address both needs in this draft. Their value on the two positions will ultimately dictate how high they're picked.

My main reason for valuing CB over FS high can be summed up by one coach on our team. Greg Williams.

He's a defensive guru that specializes in exactic blitz packages. One-on-one match ups in the secondary are critical for a high number of blitzes to work. That is the primary job of a CB.

Our top two guys are pretty good in Jenks and Johnson, but we need another guy to groom play the nickel. We're scary thin on depth right now on top of it.

High end CB's are harder to find than a FS. CB's are more expensive, too. We need someone who can start when our primary two hit FA. It will be tough to keep both.

My last and least reason for going CB is Cody Davis. I wanna see this guy on the field at some point.

 

[Alan]

Actually, I picked FS for the same reason you picked CB. When Williams runs a blitz and it fails, which happens very frequently with his (or anyone else's) blitz, a FS being in the correct position to limit the damage is essential. The lack of which is supposedly why we haven't been playing much man coverage. The fact that he blitz's more often than most DCs mmakes it even more imperative we have a very good FS.

Money does not affect my thinking at all.

I have no dog in this fight but I do sometimes wonder why people get excited about Cody. Other than the underdog story of course. Or Ray Ray/McLeod/Daniels for that matter.

 

[MerlinJones]

The drop off at FS after Clinton-Dix and Pryor are off the board is much greater than the drop off at CB in this years draft. I honestly believe you could still get an outstanding starter caliber CB well into round 3 or early round 4.

 

[Alan]

4th round eh? Maybe we should get two of them. That seems to be a popular thought going around.

 

[MerlinJones]

4th round eh? Maybe we should get two of them. That seems to be a popular thought going around.

OK... fourth round may be pushing it a bit, granted, but there's a lot of CB quality available this year.

I'm just saying.

 

[Flipper_336]

As Alan pointed out, most of Williams' schemes require excellent safety cover.

Furthermore, JJ and Tru are both top-notch corners in a man scheme; they were simply wasted in our crappy soft zone scheme last year.

Play our CBs in man coverage and have proper safeties; this defence would then be the best in the league.

 

[Alan]

Totally agree with your overall thought Mr. Optimistic.

 

[StevenG-BR]

Totally agree. This team is dangerously thin at CB. The thought of McGee stepping in for an injured starter is FAR for troubling than Davis stepping in for McLeod at safety.

 

[Alan]

StevenG-BR giving McLeod starter status:
Davis stepping in for McLeod at safety.

I don't know Steven, if McLeod is our starting FS I think we're already in deep doo doo.

 

[mr.stlouis]

The drop off at FS after Clinton-Dix and Pryor are off the board is much greater than the drop off at CB in this years draft. I honestly believe you could still get an outstanding starter caliber CB well into round 3 or early round 4.

Actually, I picked FS for the same reason you picked CB. When Williams runs a blitz and it fails, which happens very frequently with his (or anyone else's) blitz, a FS being in the correct position to limit the damage is essential. The lack of which is supposedly why we haven't been playing much man coverage. The fact that he blitz's more often than most DCs mmakes it even more imperative we have a very good FS.

Money does not affect my thinking at all.

I have no dog in this fight but I do sometimes wonder why people get excited about Cody. Other than the underdog story of course. Or Ray Ray/McLeod/Daniels for that matter.

I like Clinton-Dix and would not be upset with us picking him at 13. My belief is a guy like Dennard would have a greater impact.

IMO, if a WR catches the ball then the damage is done unless our CB doesn't bring him down. Having a ball hawk to come in on third down may be the best solution. Surely there is a FS in the mid rounds that excels in pass coverage but is weak against the running game. I'd like to go that direction.

Cody Davis is an interesting topic. He super athletic and has the tools to be a really good S. Like many of our current players, he needs some grooming. He has a season under his belt and I'm very interested in his improvement.

 

[Ramhusker]

This is an interesting debate because I see the depth at both positions in this draft but I see only a couple of standouts at CB and FS. After Dennard/Gilbert and Dix/Pryor, there is a little drop off. Sure would be nice to get one of each but highly improbable.

 

[StevenG-BR]

I don't know Steven, if McLeod is our starting FS I think we're already in deep doo doo.

If Rams do go S instead of CB in round 1, lets just hope Greg Reid pans out and is a decent corner for us.

We all saw what McGee did with his shot at CB last year... it wasn't pretty.

 

[The Rammer]

No doubt I beleive the Rams will address both needs in this draft. Their value on the two positions will ultimately dictate how high they're picked.

My main reason for valuing CB over FS high can be summed up by one coach on our team. Greg Williams.

He's a defensive guru that specializes in exactic blitz packages. One-on-one match ups in the secondary are critical for a high number of blitzes to work. That is the primary job of a CB.

Our top two guys are pretty good in Jenks and Johnson, but we need another guy to groom play the nickel. We're scary thin on depth right now on top of it.

High end CB's are harder to find than a FS. CB's are more expensive, too. We need someone who can start when our primary two hit FA. It will be tough to keep both.

My last and least reason for going CB is Cody Davis. I wanna see this guy on the field at some point.

Actually, I picked FS for the same reason you picked CB. When Williams runs a blitz and it fails, which happens very frequently with his (or anyone else's) blitz, a FS being in the correct position to limit the damage is essential. The lack of which is supposedly why we haven't been playing much man coverage. The fact that he blitz's more often than most DCs mmakes it even more imperative we have a very good FS.

Money does not affect my thinking at all.

I have no dog in this fight but I do sometimes wonder why people get excited about Cody. Other than the underdog story of course. Or Ray Ray/McLeod/Daniels for that matter.

I'm sorry bro but if I was splitting hairs and had to choose between a top notch Safety and a top notch CB this draft I'd have to go with the CB. The reasons? While playing in Walton's crappy system McLeod playing with no experience and IMO he didn't have a Pro Bowl year but he did play pretty darn decent and played really good at times. I'm sure a off season of preperation and study plus having our new DC will help him out a great deal and would be servicable.

For our CB's on the other hand we need depth and quality depth, Mcgee might be a decent 4th corners or 5th... He was horrible last year! And Janoris Jenkins gave up alot of TD's and big catches. Tru played alot better especially as the season went on. I think we need a top CB to take on the #1 or #2 CB job and Janoris and Tru alternating between the #2 and Slot spots would inmprove that position group alot more than if we just had a safety drafted.

With all that being said If he do go safety I want Pyror hands down. Love me some thumpers at the safety position that are center fielders as well. He looks pretty good out there and think in a Rams uniform he'd be a marketable player! lol

 

[Memphis Ram]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_5f24391b-f863-598a-b210-ba93ae249d50.html

Williams’ immediate concern is the secondary. He plans to play his safeties deep to serve as “overlap angels to run down things when mistakes are made in front of them.’’

“Nobody in the National Football League plays the safeties deeper than me. Nobody,’’ he said. “That’s because we’re going to play as aggressive as all get-out with our corners, linebackers and nickels.

Doesn't sound like the safeties are the playmakers in his defense(s).

 

[The Rammer]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_5f24391b-f863-598a-b210-ba93ae249d50.html



Doesn't sound like the safeties are the playmakers in his defense(s).

Amen to that! Quite Frankly CB's are his cup of tea holding his defense together.

 

[duckhunter]

Agree good discussion topic. With the number of picks we have I can see Snisher grabbing two of each. I don't see any real weaknesses in Dennard or Gilbert in the 1st. Verrett may be the best pure cover corner. EJ Gaines is the real deal late 2nd. Fuller can play early and is no slouch. There are a quite a few others that deserve early consideration. A draft would not be worth watching unless I'm rooting for a boilermaker so give me Ricardo Allen as a slot guy late and I'll smile all day.

I was high on Ha Ha but don't rate him nearly as high as Dennard or Gilbert. The guys that intrigue me for flexible centerfielders later are Ward and Reynolds. I like guys that smoothly do a lot of things on the back side. I like ball defenders and wrap up tacklers more than big hitters. Brooks can be a very good player but may not be an immediate starter. Exum would be a good sleeper late for development.

From my perspective, I would like the Rams to find value but there are some guys who will play a long time at a high level in this league. Quietly add them please. If they move up or down to get em that's fine with me.

 

[Alan]

Memphis Ram with the article I remembered:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_5f24391b-f863-598a-b210-ba93ae249d50.html

Doesn't sound like the safeties are the playmakers in his defense(s).

Exactly Memphis, they're the, wait for it...SAFETIES. Isn't this the classic reason why they named it that?

 

[Memphis Ram]

Exactly Memphis they're the wait for it...SAFETIES. Isn't this the classic reason why they named it that?

Yet, guys like Ed Reed, Jauris Byrd, Troy Polamalu, Earl Thomas, etc.. are/were playmakers.

 

[Alan]

Memphis Ram comparing apples and oranges:
Yet, guys like Ed Reed, Jauris Byrd, Troy Polamalu, Earl Thomas, etc.. are/were playmakers.

Only half of those are FSs and SSs are just faster LBs with some PD abilities. As for Byrd and Thomas, They got many opportunities playing centerfield and zone coverage to get some INTs and become your version of "playmakers". What makes you think Ha_Ha wouldn't get the same opportunities and capitalize on them just like he and Pryor did in college. Not to mention, your comment that they weren't "playmakers" had a very derogatory sound to me. Would anybody on the O-line be called playmakers by you? Are they any less important than Ed Reed or Polamalu? Football is a team game bro and the fact that not having a good FS forced our DB corps to play so much zone should tell all you need to know about how that works for a team.

There's an old saying:

'For want of a nail (FS), the horseshoe was lost. For want of a horseshoe, the steed was lost. For want of a steed, the message was not delivered. For want of an undelivered message, the war (game) was lost.'

 

[Memphis Ram]

Only half of those are FSs and SSs are just faster LBs with some PD abilities. As for Byrd and Thomas, They got many opportunities playing centerfield and zone coverage to get some INTs and become your version of "playmakers". What makes you think Ha_Ha wouldn't get the same opportunities and capitalize on them just like he and Pryor did in college. Not to mention, your comment that they weren't "playmakers" had a very derogatory sound to me. Would anybody on the O-line be called playmakers by you? Are they any less important than Ed Reed or Polamalu? Football is a team game bro and the fact that not having a good FS forced our DB corps to play so much zone should tell all you need to know about how that works for a team.

There's an old saying:

'For want of a nail (FS), the horseshoe was lost. For want of a horseshoe, the steed was lost. For want of a steed, the message was not delivered. For want of an undelivered message, the war (game) was lost.'

You've lost me Alan. Let's start again.

The way Williams described the use of his safeties says to me that they are not the playmakers in his defense. VERY important. Nothing you saw last year matters because they were not playing in his defense. BTW, I don't believe it was the safeties that forced the team to play too much zone. IMO, it had more to do with the defensive coordinator/scheme and it's bend but don't break mindset.

As for the safeties I listed, each one of those guys were playmakers in college, too. And what should make me think that Ha-Ha would make the same plays if given the same opportunities?

As far as the Oline playmaker thing, I haven't a clue of what you are talking about given the topic at hand.