Captain hindsight: Robinson or Matthews?

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Going back to May 8th, which tackle would you rather take 2nd overall?

  • Jake Matthews

    Votes: 39 38.6%
  • Greg Robinson

    Votes: 62 61.4%

  • Total voters
    101

Memphis Ram

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Though I wasn't a fan of the Joyner selection, trading that pick along with a future 1st rounder and whatever else to move back up for Martin would have been beyond stupid, IMO. Even worse than what the Bills did to move up for Watkins. Glad things didn't work out.
 

blue4

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Though I wasn't a fan of the Joyner selection, trading that pick along with a future 1st rounder and whatever else to move back up for Martin would have been beyond stupid, IMO. Even worse than what the Bills did to move up for Watkins. Glad things didn't work out.
Trading up is rarely a good idea. IMO Martin would have been a good pick but not with any loss of other picks.
 

jrry32

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Do you really think that the gap between their ability to play the game is that large? An extra 1st round pick large? I'm not convinced of that at all.

Yes. Martin isn't a future LT. He's not nearly as physically gifted at Robinson. It's like comparing Robert Quinn to Brockers. Both are talented guys who have their important roles but Quinn has the potential to be the much greater impact player.
 

jrry32

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No hindsight to it. I would have done that in the moment no question. There wasn't any players available at 2 that were worth passing on another 1st round pick. Robinson would have to approach Pace levels before he would be worth that much. IMO.

Disagree.
 

Thordaddy

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We all have our opinions !!
I don't know how long you have been watching drafts ?? I've always been one for trading back.Percect examples have been made.The RG111 gift could have been still giving.With the Bills #1 next year there is sure to be a better player after that pick who will have a better NFL career than he ever will almost guaranteed.
Yes The Rams have the players they have and you can't turn back time.I hope G Rob is the next Larry Allen.
-- Look at Dallas & there O-Line ..The Rams will have a great O-Line soon enough.This thing is just getting started.
-What's your take on Tavon ? Joyner -Rams could have had a good LBer with the lose of picks.
Patterson & Allen last year.I'm always a believer of letting the draft come to you.
--Great scouting and drafting for sure.So nice to see.Westbrook is another great UDFA just like Heckler,Bennie,D.Rich(cut).

If it matters how long I've been watching the draft ,since you COULD , my first attention paid to the draft was when the Cardinals drafted Joe Namath and have followed it since,but back then it wasn't on TV. So since 1965

I don't think there are hard and fast rules on trading either way,it mostly depends on the state of your team especially since slotting makes your cap more manageable ,back in the crazy contract days trading down got you so much more bang for the buck it was prudent to do so. Now trading into the fist round
permits a longer contract so a lot depends on what a team wants . Word is the Rams tried to trade up to get Martin as well...oh my if they had and Martin was starting over GROB the humanity!

If you have a team assembled and a player you think is the missing piece to the puzzle like say Luke Kuechly is there then I say being careful to not give too much and trading up is sound . Someone trading up for Andrew Luck instead of RG III would likely be happy .

I was wanting Austin when we drafted him and was OK with the trade ,but since have said if someone wanted to give us the #8 pick in the draft for him I'd do it,but again we're spending a lot of time debating something that will never happen,with an incredibly small body of information,with attitudes as well as "opinions", some of which are determined by a desire to create controversy.
Many times a teams first round pick is not to immediately start, several instances have been given,there have been histrionics asking how long we have to wait ,some going out years.

Sure there are probably gonna be some players one could say "see he's better" drafted later ,but knowing who they are is a given in the mind of those who criticize,and a lot of well paid scouts don't know in advance and neither do we.


The Rams intended to pick one of two players with that pick and they took the best athlete ,from all I've seen neither player would have been available if they'd traded back ,Martin was picked to be a guard ,not a left tackle and I'd say spent his whole preseason working on one position,but GROB was asked to learn two,so can we at least give the kid a commensurate time to learn two positions as we give a player to learn one .
O line doesn't get rotated like all other positions except QB unless they are hurt they stay on the field so they need to be able to do it all,not have specific situational roles to play or come off the field to catch their breath.
I'm far from alarmed about GROB not playing yet and trust that Boudreau and Fisher plan for him to be ready first, being down to our third QB ,IMO it should be self evident why they are being cautious as well,it was always known he'd need to be brought up to speed on pass blocking.
 

blue4

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Yes. Martin isn't a future LT. He's not nearly as physically gifted at Robinson. It's like comparing Robert Quinn to Brockers. Both are talented guys who have their important roles but Quinn has the potential to be the much greater impact player.

Well, it remains to be seen what Robinson will be at LT. I don't see how people can call him a bust or a stud seeing as how he's not been on the field yet. We had some questions at both G and T. IMO we could have taken Matthews and had a great player who could play all the line positions if need be and have an immediate effect. We could have taken Martin and got a good longterm starting guard and another 1st in next years draft. I had no idea we were offered a 1st and a 4th to trade. Trading down was my first hope going into the draft. (You want to talk hindsight, how nice would an extra 1st be next year when we are looking for a QB of the future?) Both options IMO would have had a greater positive effect on the Rams. This is not to say that I don't like Robinson, or to downplay his potential. Seeing as how he is a Ram and the others are not, I hope he turns out better than both.
I will be the first to congratulate both him and Snead.
 

Rmfnlt

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I wanted Matthews for the same reason many have already stated.

When they took Robinson (again, for the reason many here stated), I was... "OK, let's see how he does".

My only issue is... I haven't seen how he does.

I hope it's soon.

Sitting a high draft pick just doesn't sit well with me.

I'd rather he get in there and learn... make mistakes if that's what happens.

You can't learn much sitting on the bench, IMO.
 

jrry32

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Well, it remains to be seen what Robinson will be at LT. I don't see how people can call him a bust or a stud seeing as how he's not been on the field yet.

I called him neither of those things and I did not claim he will be a future star LT...only that he has the potential to be. Martin does not. He lacks the length to play outside.

IMO we could have taken Matthews and had a great player who could play all the line positions if need be and have an immediate effect. We could have taken Martin and got a good longterm starting guard and another 1st in next years draft. I had no idea we were offered a 1st and a 4th to trade. Trading down was my first hope going into the draft. (You want to talk hindsight, how nice would an extra 1st be next year when we are looking for a QB of the future?) Both options IMO would have had a greater positive effect on the Rams.

Look, I hear you on this. It would have been a tough call but in the moment, I likely would have made the trade too because I favored Jake Matthews very slightly over Robinson because I felt he was a project and questioned his ability to diagnose and pick-up blitzes. I would have made the trade because I would have felt that we would have come away with similarly highly ranked players to Robinson on my board at Pick #9 such as Aaron Donald or Jake Matthews or Mike Evans. Still, there's a risk that none of them fall and you're stuck.

That all said, I completely disagree that both options would have had a far greater positive effect. Jake Matthews would have had a great positive SHORT TERM effect but in the long term, it's quite arguable that Robinson will have a much greater positive effect if he develops well.
 

jrry32

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I wanted Matthews for the same reason many have already stated.

When they took Robinson (again, for the reason many here stated), I was... "OK, let's see how he does".

My only issue is... I haven't seen how he does.

I hope it's soon.

Sitting a high draft pick just doesn't sit well with me.

I'd rather he get in there and learn... make mistakes if that's what happens.

You can't learn much sitting on the bench, IMO.

This is the exact issue. So many people believe this and they're completely wrong. If you can't learn sitting on the bench, what did Brian Quick do? How about Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers?

You can learn a lot while sitting on the bench. You're still getting coaching, you're still working to learn the scheme, and you're still learning from the mistakes of other players on film. Does experience on the field become necessary at some point? Absolutely. But the idea that we're wasting time with him on the bench is nuts. You risk doing more harm than good throwing a guy onto the field that doesn't understand the scheme, his assignments, and isn't sound technically. Not only are you hurting the team but you risk destroying that player's confidence and reinforcing bad habits.

One of the big things that Aaron Rodgers learn while on the bench was how to shorten his delivery. Shortening your delivery takes a ton of repetitions to change the muscle memory developed over your football career. If you toss a guy out there too soon, he'll just revert back to his bad habits and ruin all the work done to that point.

So no, that's not true. You can, and I bet Robinson is, learn a lot while on the bench.
 

Mojo Ram

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I remember i pushed hard for a trade down as long as it involved a #1 in 2015. I cited then my reasons(a contingency for Bradford) and was not,shall we say... met with agreement by many good people here. Lol. I might go dig that up too. Bye week seems to be a good time to dig up shit up.

If a trade down couldn't be done without a future #1 or some other bounty of picks, i was all for sitting tight and taking Big G there. As long as we didn't draft Clowney or God forbid trade up for him i was happy.
 

jrry32

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I remember i pushed hard for a trade down as long as it involved a #1 in 2015. I cited then my reasons(a contingency for Bradford) and was not,shall we say... met with agreement by many good people here. Lol. I might go dig that up too. Bye week seems to be a good time to dig up crap up.

If a trade down couldn't be done without a future #1 or some other bounty of picks, i was all for sitting tight and taking Big G there. As long as we didn't draft Clowney or God forbid trade up for him i was happy.

I feel ya on that. I know many of us didn't think a contingency was that important. Of course, then it was come September. I remember a lot of people thought I was nuts because I believed that if Teddy Bridgewater fell far enough, we should draft him solely based on the theory of value. A lot of people felt drafting a QB was a bad idea because using a first round pick on a contingency wasn't worth it. I can't say that I didn't disagree at the time but I also felt that he was enough of an asset that he would retain trade value making it worthwhile if Bradford did end up panning out.

Then again, once you get to draft day, all bets are off. It's hard to take that long term idealistic view when you have a bunch of players that you like that fill more pressing needs staring you in the face. :LOL:
 
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At the time of the draft I thought that Matthews would make the better immediate impact at OT, but with both OT spots locked down I wanted Robinson as he could be a very play OG for the year and then give Long the boot at the end of the season. Knowing then what I know now, namely Robinson can't beat out a really rather poor Joseph, I'd probably go with the more polished Matthews.

Of course I'd of gone with Watkins regardless so it's a moot point.
 

Memphis Ram

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You are mistaken. Nobody wanted him and his huge contract via trade, but the Rams, Cowboys, and I believe the Patriots showed interest in him. Could be more, but that's I recall reading in the media. Rams even brought him in for lookse during the very early stages of free agency.

Either way, I'm not sure that means anything. Over the years there have been quite a few success stories of players that some said no one wanted but were given a chances by one team.
 

blackbart

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You are mistaken. Nobody wanted him and his huge contract via trade, but the Rams, Cowboys, and I believe the Patriots showed interest in him. Could be more, but that's I recall reading in the media. Rams even brought him in for lookse during the very early stages of free agency.

Either way, I'm not sure that means anything. Over the years there have been quite a few success stories of players that some said no one wanted but were given a chances by one team.
No I am not mistaken. He toured around during the FA period and could not get a contract.

He only came to the Rams after the draft as a depth pick up and was not in their plans to start. He is only in there now because Robinson was too slow to learn how to play the LG position.
 

Memphis Ram

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No I am not mistaken. He toured around during the FA period and could not get a contract.

He only came to the Rams after the draft as a depth pick up and was not in their plans to start. He is only in there now because Robinson was too slow to learn how to play the LG position.

Could not get a contract? Or did not sign a contract? Those are two different things altogether. Remember this is a former Pro Bowler who had a huge deal with Tampa when released (7 years $53 million, $19 million guaranteed). It may have taken him a while to come to terms upon accepting the deal he finally accepted. Plus, coming off the injury, he still had to get and prove that he was healthy.

And again, the Rams brought him in during the early stages of free agency (long before the draft). He was one of the first visits. Could he have been considered a depth pickup at that time in March with the fear of Saffold leaving and no other credible starters at guard on the roster? Perhaps, but I still believe that at that point, they still high had hopes of Clowney falling into their laps and saw him as one capable of being a decent starter. He's playing RG now because he's a better option at guard than Robinson and the team doesn't seem to want to entitle a player a starting job at such a vital position due to his draft position.
 

BonifayRam

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When doing this poll Davin Joseph's element is key here. If it were not for DJ its highly probable that Rodger Saffold would be the starting ORG & Greg Robinson would have started the season @ OLG. The situation currently is the duo of RS & DJ provides Boudreau with what he wants NOW from his OL better than a RS/GR duo. For myself I do not see how that brings the bright light of negativity directly on GR IMO.

A member posted earlier in this post that DJ gives GR the opportunity to stew or I would have said Cured for a longer period of time. This certainly appears to be a good thing NOT bad. As for DJ being a smart guy as he is he knew what teams played the type of OL play best suited for his skill set & what OL would provide him the best opportunity to attempt a comeback in the NFL after being fired in Tampa. I am of the opinion that's the reason he was on the market so long in free agency.

The situation earlier in the season where our starting center was out for the major part also a back up center Barrett Jones was not 100% missed much then was injured again still not healthy ....those two events kept the Rams most experience interior OL'er Tim Barnes nailed in @ center & prevented him from getting any action @ any of the OG posts. Throw in the UNhealthy OG Saffold into that mixer certainly showed the need for a OL'er like Greg Robinson who could play OLG a post that Jake Matthews has never show'd any ability to play. Robinson saw a tremendous amount of work & time in TC & pre season on that left side & really looked good playing against those vanilla defenses.
 

blue4

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I don't see what difference it makes whether he didn't get an offer or turned one down. Joseph has been subpar and is a weakness on the OL. To me, that is the sole reason people are disappointed that Robinson isn't playing. It's easy to shrug and say "He'll get his chance, look at that potential" if he was playing behind Barksdale or someone like that. It's understandably tougher when the guy he sitting for sucks. It's necessary to have patience, but it's much harder when your team's last quality season was 10 years ago. When the #2 pick sits behind a subpar guy, my head says give it time, but my heart says what the fu#k.
 

blue4

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When doing this poll Davin Joseph's element is key here. If it were not for DJ its highly probable that Rodger Saffold would be the starting ORG & Greg Robinson would have started the season @ OLG. The situation currently is the duo of RS & DJ provides Boudreau with what he wants NOW from his OL better than a RS/GR duo. For myself I do not see how that brings the bright light of negativity directly on GR IMO.

A member posted earlier in this post that DJ gives GR the opportunity to stew or I would have said Cured for a longer period of time. This certainly appears to be a good thing NOT bad. As for DJ being a smart guy as he is he knew what teams played the type of OL play best suited for his skill set & what OL would provide him the best opportunity to attempt a comeback in the NFL after being fired in Tampa. I am of the opinion that's the reason he was on the market so long in free agency.

The situation earlier in the season where our starting center was out for the major part also a back up center Barrett Jones was not 100% missed much then was injured again still not healthy ....those two events kept the Rams most experience interior OL'er Tim Barnes nailed in @ center & prevented him from getting any action @ any of the OG posts. Throw in the UNhealthy OG Saffold into that mixer certainly showed the need for a OL'er like Greg Robinson who could play OLG a post that Jake Matthews has never show'd any ability to play. Robinson saw a tremendous amount of work & time in TC & pre season on that left side & really looked good playing against those vanilla defenses.

One of the big selling points of Matthews was that he could play any position on the line. I think he showed more potential to walk in and play OG than Robinson did. And outside of a person or two, nobody is saying much of anything negative about Robinson. Just talking about our pre draft positions.
Here's a scouting report
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/jake-matthews?id=2543758
 
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ZigZagRam

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One of the big selling points of Matthews was that he could play any position on the line. I think he showed more potential to walk in and play OG than Robinson did. And outside of a person or two, nobody is saying much of anything negative about Robinson. Just talking about our pre draft positions.
Here's a scouting report
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/jake-matthews?id=2543758

Matthews did offer versatility, but I don't think he offered the nastiness and the power that this regime was invisioning on the offensive line.

Matthews was a great prospect, and should be one of the top technicians in the NFL for the next eight years, but Robinson has such rare physical skills and abilities that it's well worth the growing pains.

How many early picks has this regime truly missed on? Pead?