Can Fisher be salvaged, and if so how?

[DCH]

I know a comparison between Fisher in 2015 (and 2014, and 2013) and Dick Vermiel in 1998 has been made, and I want to know if you all think that the Vermiel '98-'99 transition could occur with Fisher.

Take away his final say on personnel, take away his ability to pick his offensive coordinator, give a hot young OC candidate the job and absolute power over his offense, along with the ability to have a say on personnel that equals or is beyond Fisher's... could making Fisher focus on head coaching salvage his time in STL?

 

[Psycho_X]

Who's going to take over on personnel decisions? I don't see Kroenke giving Les Snead absolute control over everything over Fisher. I also don't see Fisher giving up control like Vermeil did in 99 or changing any of his philosophies.

 

[DCH]

Who's going to take over on personnel decisions? I don't see Kroenke giving Les Snead absolute control over everything over Fisher. I also don't see Fisher giving up control like Vermeil did in 99 or changing any of his philosophies.

That's more or less what I'm asking. I don't see any way Fisher running things completely as he is now can generate success. Who was it that forced Vermiel's hand - Zygmunt? Armey?

I'd say Snead should be a real GM, not just Fisher's puppet.

 

[Psycho_X]

That's more or less what I'm asking. I don't see any way Fisher running things completely as he is now can generate success. Who was it that forced Vermiel's hand - Zygmunt? Armey?

I'd say Snead should be a real GM, not just Fisher's puppet.

I think it was ultimately John Shaw that pulled responsibility from Vermeil. There's not really anyone at Rams park with the authority capable of being over Jeff Fisher. Unless Kroenke comes in and says Snead is in total control of everything roster wise there isn't really anyone else in Rams Park who could be put in charge. And I don't see Kroenke doing that while keeping Fisher.

Sadly I don't know what the answer is but I'm scared we're going to be stuck in neutral for at least another season. And with Kroenke seemingly caring more about his net worth and stadiums than the product on the field I'm not sure how soon anything will change for the better unfortunately.

 

[brokeu91]

I think it was ultimately John Shaw that pulled responsibility from Vermeil. There's not really anyone at Rams park with the authority capable of being over Jeff Fisher. Unless Kroenke comes in and says Snead is in total control of everything roster wise there isn't really anyone else in Rams Park who could be put in charge. And I don't see Kroenke doing that while keeping Fisher.

Sadly I don't know what the answer is but I'm scared we're going to be stuck in neutral for at least another season. And with Kroenke seemingly caring more about his net worth and stadiums than the product on the field I'm not sure how soon anything will change for the better unfortunately.

I couldn't agree more

 

[DCH]

I think it was ultimately John Shaw that pulled responsibility from Vermeil. There's not really anyone at Rams park with the authority capable of being over Jeff Fisher. Unless Kroenke comes in and says Snead is in total control of everything roster wise there isn't really anyone else in Rams Park who could be put in charge. And I don't see Kroenke doing that while keeping Fisher.

Sadly I don't know what the answer is but I'm scared we're going to be stuck in neutral for at least another season. And with Kroenke seemingly caring more about his net worth and stadiums than the product on the field I'm not sure how soon anything will change for the better unfortunately.

I just looked at the front office staff... how is it we don't have a President of Football Operations anymore?

 

[SaneRamsFan]

I think that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Fisher has a huge upside but Offense isn't it. If he's unwilling to let go of it I think he needs to go.

 

[jap]

It may well be that Fish is unable to evolve as Dickie V did. One would think that being on the rules committee and seeing the rule changes that makes play so much more beneficial to the passing aspect of the game, Fish would be better able to appreciate the importance of a stable QB more so than most HC's with a defensive background.

 

[Lesson]

Well, I personally don't think Fisher is in any danger of losing his job. He's still under contract through next season, but I don't see his status changing from being that of a lame duck coach unless the team wins out.

If they don't win out, then I think something has to change. I think Fisher, similar to Spags, has a heavy influence in the OC's(Cigs) playcalling. I'd like to see what Cigs can do if Fisher's philosophy wasn't based completely on the run game.

 

[nighttrain]

Without a NFL caliber QB, what difference would it make?
train

 

[DaveFan'51]

I wait and see how the rest of the Season goes before drawing any conclusions about Fisher and his future!

 

[LACHAMP46]

I want to know if you all think that the Vermiel '98-'99 transition could occur with Fisher.

All Fisher needs:

Just give him one of these.....

Without a NFL caliber QB, what difference would it make?
train

Exactly....

 

[ChrisW]

All Fisher needs:

Just give him one of these.....
Exactly....

I agree with the exception of Hackenberg. He's just not very good. Mannion is better.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I agree with the exception of Hackenberg. He's just not very good. Mannion is better.

I was waytching him a lot this year....He does seem very confused at times, and inaccurate....I think his O-Line is pretty bad too...But he does have arm talent...And tries to drive the ball downfield....And as for Mannion, he should be able to play NOW if he has any real talent.

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/christian-hackenberg/

And I'd like to see any of these guys on this roster:

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/paxton-lynch/
http://draftbreakdown.com/players/carson-wentz/
http://draftbreakdown.com/players/jared-goff/
http://draftbreakdown.com/players/jacoby-brissett/
http://draftbreakdown.com/players/connor-cook/

Full belief that put in the right circumstances, they could do well.

 

[ChrisW]

And as for Mannion, he should be able to play NOW if he has any real talent.

I think it's a question of reps with Mannion, not talent. He's third on the depth chart, and hasn't gotten anything meaningful since preseason.

 

[den-the-coach]

I agree with the exception of Hackenberg. He's just not very good. Mannion is better.

Totally agree here, Hackenberg is not very good IMO and reminds me of Zach Mettenberger, big arm, but a statue in the pocket.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Totally agree here, Hackenberg is not very good IMO and reminds me of Zach Mettenberger, big arm, but a statue in the pocket.

ahh, i agree to a point....I have seen this comparison...but the main difference is the actual talent around the players...Mettneberger had NFL talent at all levels, esp. skill position. Hackenberg doesn't.
I pick out specific games, vs talented opponents, and he belongs, but his receivers...
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/christian-hackenberg-vs-michigan-state-2014/
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/christian-hackenberg-vs-ohio-state-2014/
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/christian-hackenberg-vs-boston-college-2014/
He's inaccurate to a point, which is a real problem with me....now, I always thought guys could improve accuracy over time & repetition...but for arm talent, and the throws he makes...plus, he won't go very high...Maybe a 3rd round...seems like great value.
I like that he plays in a major conference, on an inferior team with poor blocking...He's used to mayhem...Now he needs to work on the fundamentals...footwork stuff... but physically, he's "built' to play & withstand the rigors of pro football. Goff isn't...

 

[Athos]

No.

Fisher is too stubborn to let go of neutering the offense or just plain godawful in drafting offensive talent outside of gimmies like Gurley and Tavon.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I also don't see Fisher giving up control like Vermeil did in 99 or changing any of his philosophies.

Neither do I.

I think it was ultimately John Shaw that pulled responsibility from Vermeil. There's not really anyone at Rams park with the authority capable of being over Jeff Fisher. Unless Kroenke comes in and says Snead is in total control of everything roster wise there isn't really anyone else in Rams Park who could be put in charge. And I don't see Kroenke doing that while keeping Fisher.

Neither do I.

I just looked at the front office staff... how is it we don't have a President of Football Operations anymore?

For all intents and purposes, Fisher is HC and President of Football Ops.

Too much power.

 

[TXRams86]

Fisher is what he is, a defensive minded coach with no knowledge of running today's offense. Yet he continues to hire under achieving coordinators, neglected the offensive side of the ball (primarily the line and WR's) and has handicapped the offense as a whole. Sure the players love playing for him but how long does that last when you're constantly losing? If I'm a halfway decent player on this team I can look at things two different ways: this system fits me; I'm a good player on a crappy team, losing is alright. I'm getting my paycheck anyway, plus Fisher is a cool guy. OR I can look at it this way: I play to win. I don't care how much money I'm making here if this team never accomplishes anything. I'm out of here as soon as possible.
Either which way you look at it, it's unhealthy. Fisher WILL eventually lose the locker room (if he hasn't already). He doesn't seem to inspire our guys, doesn't seem to know how to coach up young, raw talent. He's perfectly fine with being mediocre.
I want a WINNER inspiring our guys. Letting them know that he has their backs 100%. Who isn't afraid of calling bullshit like it is (like the ref's fucking us in the Bears game). Say what you want about guys like Arians, the players know he has their back.