An analysis of the quarterback (not insane version)

[PrometheusFaulk]

So I thought this might be fun. On another board, it seems like anytime you bring up Bradford it naturally leads to insanity. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here.

Now that I've discovered this board, I thought it would be a good place to have a reasonable discussion about the quarterback for once, assess the strengths and areas of opportunity (legitimate, as opposed to buzzwords, insane comparisons, and general mouth foaming). I apologize because I'm sure this is all old hat now, but again I'm kind of a newb.

One thing I think Bradford has done particularly well is avoiding negative plays. You see a lot of quarterbacks who throw really bad picks, take unnecessary sacks, fumble the ball a lot. Bradford is keenly aware of how to avoid these plays, throwing the ball away quickly when he feels pressure to an area where it won't do any damage. It's a pretty advanced skill for a 25 year old.

One area I'd really like to see him cash in on this year? Leading his recievers a little more. Seems like this could pay big dividends in the YAC arena.

What are your folk's thoughts?

 

[-X-]

Well, contrary to popular belief, I'm not in love with Bradford. Much.

I do think he's the answer at the QB position for the next 10 years, however. He hasn't shown me anything that can't be fixed or can't be improved upon. It's clear he's a very studious and intelligent QB and I don't have very many concerns about his ability to take control of the offense now that Jackson is gone.

I've been railing for a couple of years now about how important it is to set up a pocket passer to succeed in the manner in which he's intended to be supported. Most of the issues around him have been injuries to the O-line and receivers, while a close second is the lack of continuity (changing coaches and systems). I think once he gets his bearings, and gains more confidence, changing systems won't matter as much.

What do I think he can improve upon? Honestly, I didn't see a whole lot last year that concerned me. Every QB has accuracy issues from time to time (otherwise their comp% would be 100), but I didn't see it as something that was consistently bad. Some of the throws he made were surgical. I guess if I was going to nitpick, I'd like to see him become more consistent. His shaky confidence that came about as a result of the 2011 season, quickly wore off last year and he began to trust his line. In 2011, that eroded quickly. Once he started getting hammered constantly, his lack of confidence in his line made him overly impatient at times and he missed some stuff. Couple that with his (like you said) reluctance to make mistakes, and he took a lot of sacks by pulling it down instead of chucking it down field.

Last year he regained his confidence and it showed. He was in control, he moved around the pocket, went through his progressions, and even waited for longer routes to develop. That's what a solid line does for his confidence. Run-first QBs will always have the advantage over QBs like Bradford, in that they can just get the hell outta dodge when things deteriorate around them, so a bad o-line isn't as critical. But. As long as Bradford has a solid line and athletic receivers, he'll always have the advantage over those read-option hamsters - because his arm and accuracy are wayyyy better.

 

[albefree69]

He needs to improve on his touch passes IMO. Can he? Probably but I've seen no sign of it yet. My visual acuity sucks but I'm not sure I've seen any improvement in that area.

Otherwise I think he's gonna be good to very good eventually.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

The improved mobility is definitely something that impressed me this past season, he's leaps and bounds ahead of where he was his rookie year in terms of eluding a rush in the pocket. Mechanically the guy is pretty much text book, you never see him trying to skip pass things off his tip toes even when the heat is on. I do think he could get a little more touch on some of those quick reads in the flats, particularly with a guy like Tavon when he's near the LOS getting that ball to him at just the right moment is going to be key to getting him rolling. Cook will be a big help in this regard as well - if the reports are right then they've already got great chemistry. Set the defense up with a big seam router for Cook in the first Q, then use that same leverage to wind up Austin on a cleared out screen and watch him go.

 

[Faceplant]

Agree that he needs to work on his short range velocity, and also agree that he improved in s lot of areas last season. I would like to see him look off of his primary receiver more and scan the field. Actually, I hope his primary target gets open ALL thew time, but you know what I mean. can't wait ti see him take more of a leadership role this season. This season should tell us all a LOT about our young QB regardless.

 

[bwdenverram]

I would have to disagree with the unnecessary sacks comment. I think he actually has taken way more bad sacks then he should have (at times anyway). I also think he's thrown some really short passes to people that are covered and have no chance to make a play. He'd be better off just throwing the ball away (like 3rd and 10 but throwing in 5 yards.). I'm saying this as a guy who likes Bradford and thinks he will blossom this year. But I'm also realistic. I don't blame everything on the supporting cast. Bradford, at times, has been average at best. I do think he improved in all areas in 2012. So I'm really looking forward to this year.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

I would have to disagree with the unnecessary sacks comment. I think he actually has taken way more bad sacks then he should have (at times anyway). I also think he's thrown some really short passes to people that are covered and have no chance to make a play. He'd be better off just throwing the ball away (like 3rd and 10 but throwing in 5 yards.). I'm saying this as a guy who likes Bradford and thinks he will blossom this year. But I'm also realistic. I don't blame everything on the supporting cast. Bradford, at times, has been average at best. I do think he improved in all areas in 2012. So I'm really looking forward to this year.

That's interesting. I mean, I could definitely see it his rookie year, but it seemed like last year to me when he went down most of the time it was because it was his best option (I tend to throw '11 out, between the injury he had and the team around him the thing was just an out and out train wreck). Course, I've been wrong (many many many times) before.

 

[-X-]

I would have to disagree with the unnecessary sacks comment. I think he actually has taken way more bad sacks then he should have (at times anyway). I also think he's thrown some really short passes to people that are covered and have no chance to make a play. He'd be better off just throwing the ball away (like 3rd and 10 but throwing in 5 yards.). I'm saying this as a guy who likes Bradford and thinks he will blossom this year. But I'm also realistic. I don't blame everything on the supporting cast. Bradford, at times, has been average at best. I do think he improved in all areas in 2012. So I'm really looking forward to this year.

That's interesting. I mean, I could definitely see it his rookie year, but it seemed like last year to me when he went down most of the time it was because it was his best option (I tend to throw '11 out, between the injury he had and the team around him the thing was just an out and out train wreck). Course, I've been wrong (many many many times) before.

I remember it the same way as PF, but it's not something I'm willing to war over. I think the only way to determine if his sacks last year were unnecessary, would be to see a video of all of them. There's probably someone around here who could put that together. Like he did last year (hint hint).

 

[Afro Ram]

I think Paul was pretty close to being spot on with his comments. The biggest thing that worries me about Bradford is that he sets guys up to get killed. Maybe that had to do with a lack of reciever talent not getting truly open and having to get rid of the ball? I think Sam is better then given credit for when getting out of the pocket. We just haven't saw it since rookie year. The runs he made last year were more by design. I think it is very important for Bradford to scramble more even if its just for three yards as long as he's not getting hit.

 

[bwdenverram]

I would have to disagree with the unnecessary sacks comment. I think he actually has taken way more bad sacks then he should have (at times anyway). I also think he's thrown some really short passes to people that are covered and have no chance to make a play. He'd be better off just throwing the ball away (like 3rd and 10 but throwing in 5 yards.). I'm saying this as a guy who likes Bradford and thinks he will blossom this year. But I'm also realistic. I don't blame everything on the supporting cast. Bradford, at times, has been average at best. I do think he improved in all areas in 2012. So I'm really looking forward to this year.

That's interesting. I mean, I could definitely see it his rookie year, but it seemed like last year to me when he went down most of the time it was because it was his best option (I tend to throw '11 out, between the injury he had and the team around him the thing was just an out and out train wreck). Course, I've been wrong (many many many times) before.

I remember it the same way as PF, but it's not something I'm willing to war over. I think the only way to determine if his sacks last year were unnecessary, would be to see a video of all of them. There's probably someone around here who could put that together. Like he did last year (hint hint).

I did say he improved in all areas in 2012. And I'm not beating the guy up, I'm a fan of his. You're right X, we'd have to go back and look at every sack to validate it. I probably should of given him props also. Although he's made some mistakes (minimal) that I think should of been avoided, he has done a great job with what he's had to work with (which isn't much). As X said in this thread, if he has a healthy, consistent OL and now has the talent around him, I think he can be a 10 year star. I was just being fair in stating that even Sam has made his mistakes.

And he is certainly entitled to...

 

[bwdenverram]

I THINK it's fair to say that if everything goes how it should (OL, WR's and entire offense) play up to the talent level they have and Sam DOESN'T make some decent strides this year, we have a problem.
I personally think this year is Sam's big coming out party.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I think Bradford has all the tools to be a top 3 QB in this league. I think that the growth has been stunted due to constantly having to learn a new playbook and deal with new receivers, etc. I also think that he'll improve pretty significantly this next year, although I don't see it as a make it or break it type year. That being said, if he doesn't improve from this year to last year I'll be a little worried.. I don't mean just better numbers, I mean just things that need to be worked on he shows improvement. Every QB should strive to improve year to year, and Sam is someone who wants to do just that.

I'm not worried about him, I really think he's someone that can lead the Rams to another title. As he brings it all together, and the team grows, I think he'll be able to do it.

 

[libertadrocks]

I think Bradford is a bit of a enigma.

He has all the physical and mental tools of a HOF caliber pocket passer. However, up until this point, his performance has been underwhelming. I attribute his lack of spectacular play to a linty of things. Some are shortcomings I see in Bradford, others with external factors.

The problems I see in Bradford are mental.
-First, I think he is overly cautious with the ball. Dont get me wrong, I want a QB to make as few TOs as possible. However, at times I think Bradford's caution retards the overall offense a bit. In order for the offense to be explosive, he has to take chances. IMO his cautiousness may have been engrained in him through Spags. He was different at OU.
-Second, and partially related to my first point, he hasnt had much faith in his receivers. I dont think he trust any of them could win one on one matchups except Danny(who was often injured) and Lloyd(who was here for a short time). QBs have to have faith in the receivers to make plays/prevent bad plays.
-Third, from time to time he shows skittishness in the pocket. This can be attributed to the sketchy o-line play, but when he has time he needs to calm down and go through his progressions.

The external factors are probably fairly evident to all of us. There has been problems with the talent around him. Both along the line and at receiver. This had largely been corrected(hopefully) so it shouldnt be a huge issue going forward. The changing of OC and systems has also had a impact and set back his development a bit

 

[bluecoconuts]

Also, just so we don't lose focus here.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgNdTpZTN0o[/youtube]



Ah, memories.

 

[-X-]

Also, just so we don't lose focus here.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgNdTpZTN0o[/youtube]



Ah, memories.

lol. I forgot I made that one.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. :lol:

 

[DR RAM]

I think Bradford is a bit of a enigma.

He has all the physical and mental tools of a HOF caliber pocket passer. However, up until this point, his performance has been underwhelming. I attribute his lack of spectacular play to a linty of things. Some are shortcomings I see in Bradford, others with external factors.

The problems I see in Bradford are mental.
-First, I think he is overly cautious with the ball. Dont get me wrong, I want a QB to make as few TOs as possible. However, at times[hilite]I think Bradford's caution retards the overall offense a bit. In order for the offense to be explosive, he has to take chances. IMO his cautiousness may have been engrained in him through Spags. He was different at OU.[/hilite]
-Second, and partially related to my first point, he hasnt had much faith in his receivers. I dont think he trust any of them could win one on one matchups except Danny(who was often injured) and Lloyd(who was here for a short time). QBs have to have faith in the receivers to make plays/prevent bad plays.
-Third, from time to time he shows skittishness in the pocket. This can be attributed to the sketchy o-line play, but when he has time he needs to calm down and go through his progressions.

The external factors are probably fairly evident to all of us. There has been problems with the talent around him. Both along the line and at receiver. This had largely been corrected(hopefully) so it shouldnt be a huge issue going forward. The changing of OC and systems has also had a impact and set back his development a bit

#1 Can't be truer, Spags used to work with him everyday, and blow a horn or throw shit at him if he hadn't released the ball in under 2.5 seconds. Anyone else remember that? I thought it was odd that he took it upon himself (Spags) to do that with his QB. The first year offense handcuffed him also, IMO. I was not EVER a fan of Pat Shurmer. The Browns offense sucked just as bad with him over there.

Agree with your #2 wholeheartedly, it the one thing that Bradford has never had, a receiver that could WIN in tight coverage. Even Danny, was just too little to always win, even though he would fight. Pettis might be that guy now, until Quick is ready. Bailey's pretty good in getting the ball too.

#3 is all on the line. Every QB has problems when he gets drilled repeatedly, even Joe Montana used to. Kevin Greene got to him a couple times early, and we would win. Need time to go through progressions.

Everyone else has already brought up the long list of things that he can't control.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I think Bradford is a bit of a enigma.

He has all the physical and mental tools of a HOF caliber pocket passer. However, up until this point, his performance has been underwhelming. I attribute his lack of spectacular play to a linty of things. Some are shortcomings I see in Bradford, others with external factors.

The problems I see in Bradford are mental.
-First, I think he is overly cautious with the ball. Dont get me wrong, I want a QB to make as few TOs as possible. However, at times I think Bradford's caution retards the overall offense a bit. In order for the offense to be explosive, he has to take chances. IMO his cautiousness may have been engrained in him through Spags. He was different at OU.
-Second, and partially related to my first point, he hasnt had much faith in his receivers. I dont think he trust any of them could win one on one matchups except Danny(who was often injured) and Lloyd(who was here for a short time). QBs have to have faith in the receivers to make plays/prevent bad plays.
-Third, from time to time he shows skittishness in the pocket. This can be attributed to the sketchy o-line play, but when he has time he needs to calm down and go through his progressions.

The external factors are probably fairly evident to all of us. There has been problems with the talent around him. Both along the line and at receiver. This had largely been corrected(hopefully) so it shouldnt be a huge issue going forward. The changing of OC and systems has also had a impact and set back his development a bit

#1 is 100% correct and i think it stems from #2.

bradford didn't make many mistakes but that's because he didn't take many chances to the detriment of the offense. he didn't have much faith in his receivers and as a result was reluctant to let the ball go when it looked like the receiver was covered (of course this didn't happen when he threw to amendola who would sometimes have three defenders all over him and bradford would put it in there for a miracle completion which hardly ever came off - one of the reasons it was a good thing amendola left the rams).

but as the season wore on, and when push came to shove like the end of the bills game, he started putting the ball on the money (and sometimes not so much on the money) allowing his receivers to make plays and they did just that. and the rams got the winning td. that is something i expect more of from sam this season and beyond as he gains more trust in his receivers.

i still say the last game against the seagulls is the most confident i've ever been about sam running the offense and him leading the rams to victory. even though they lost in the end it doesn't change the way i felt about him as a qb.

.

 

[fastcat]

I agree with everything liber said, I see Sam as being sort of "robotic" at times. If the play design has failed he kind of panics. But one thing I have to say is Sam is the kind of qb were everything around him has to be perfect for him to be truly successful, he doesn't show he is the kind of qb to make players "seem" better than they are. I absolutely hate the fact he sees pressure coming and stands there like a statue. And the only way he is a top 10 qb in my eyes is if the line keeps pressure away like they did at the end of the season.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[brokeu91]

I feel that overall he does a good job. He did not have a consistent O-line, he got hit a lot, he didn't have receivers get open constantly so he would hold onto the ball too long waiting for one to open up. He didn't trust his receivers/o-line so he would not wait long enough for some deeper routes to develop and perhaps have a better shot down the field.

1. Like others I think he needs to be less cautious with the ball. Yes he does not give up interceptions, but the offense still has to trudge down the field and too many drives are stalled because of a penalty or a bad run. If it takes less plays to score it's less likely to be messed up by one bad play.

2. I think he needs to improve his vision of the field. I will say, however, that this got better as the year went on. His best game may have been the last of the season against Seattle. We didn't win or score much, but that wasn't his fault. He was looking off receivers, throwing the ball to all areas, was just much better.

3. He's too technical at times. He has a lot of athletic ability but seems too mechanical and too cerebral sometimes. I don't want him to necessarily become a Farve like gunslinger, but wouldn't mind if he gets out of his comfort zone a little, move around a bit more and throw more on the run. I think the mechanical part of his game will improve this year, because he seems like a guy who needs to repeat a play multiple times to be really comfortable doing it. Since this is his first time that he's had the same coordinator/offense for 2 straight years, I think he'll look much more comfortable throwing the ball

4. He needs a bit more consistency. Sometimes he is just plain deadly accurate with the ball. He can be so accurate that I have no doubt he can throw a very catchable pass to a receiver who is double covered and put it right in the place where only his guy can get it. I've only seen a few QBs ever have the type of accuracy and touch that he does to all areas of the field. But sometimes the accuracy is not there and the balls don't go near their intended targets. Sometimes that's probably on the WR not running the route the way it was designed or not adjusting his route. Other times though it looks like the WR dropped in a good soft area in a zone defense and the ball goes sailing.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

I agree with everything liber said, I see Sam as being sort of "robotic" at times. If the play design has failed he kind of panics. But one thing I have to say is Sam is the kind of qb were everything around him has to be perfect for him to be truly successful, he doesn't show he is the kind of qb to make players "seem" better than they are. I absolutely hate the fact he sees pressure coming and stands there like a statue. And the only way he is a top 10 qb in my eyes is if the line keeps pressure away like they did at the end of the season.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

I wonder how much this conservatism has to do with his youth and the subsequent play calling. To me, it's easier to take the training wheels off as a guy's career progresses than to turn him loose early and then try to get him to tone it down.