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"All teams deal with injuries"

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by -X-, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

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    OK I see that....hadn't considered it. A huge caveat would be the schedule is much easier (presumption) within the division.
  2. Anonymous

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    This is an excellent post. Not just because X got intestinal cramps from reading it (j/k dude) but rather the new viable direction taken within this thread. Lots to chew on here.
  3. -X-

    -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Then add to it. :huh:

    I agree with Selassie about the injuries, and how some teams can be more adversely affected by them. The Colts are a PRIME example of that. The Seahawks were supposed to be staunch defenders of the NFC West title, but their players are dropping like flies too. The main point I'm trying to make is that the Rams were a team (before the season ever started) that was very vulnerable if they suffered key injuries. Their core group of players were enough to contend and even make a run. That core group started falling off from day 1 of training camp.

    Where's the depth that can overcome these injuries? And by "depth", I mean guys that have been groomed to be replacements over time. Guys who were able to spell the starters on occasion when they became tired. The only position that was present was at linebacker. Chamberlain and Kehl were the only "backups" who had significant playing time in this same defensive scheme. Not surprisingly, they did well when they came in for Leber and Poppinga. Feeley is a veteran with lots of game experience, so that didn't hurt as much either. Cadillac was a serviceable backup too. Goldberg at RT was another solid fit due to his past experience.

    That's where it ends.

    Maybe if that's where the injuries ended, we'd be alright. There was no answer to Amendola getting injured until Salas got up to speed, and then HE was lost. There was no answer to the 4 backup corners who got injured, but somehow, some way, Spags was able to change his defense around to compensate for that weakness. After the AZ game, we were in danger of having only two defensive tackles. Long's been playing hurt. Jackson played hurt, Bradford played hurt, Gibson played hurt, Chamberlain played hurt, Robbins plays hurt, and so on.

    Again, that's only PART of the problem. You can discuss it or you can wave it off as though I'm talking nonsense.

    You made a point a while back about the lack of judgement in giving Shurmur a 2 year deal. I backed that. I expanded on it by pointing out McDaniels' deal and how it could have the same adverse affect on Bradford if HE leaves. There's no succession plan in place. It's all up in the air now (his future). That's not good. So if you think I'm all about taking you to task, then put that out of your head immediately. If you have a problem with my views on this, then don't use other people as a conduit to tell me that. Just TELL me that.
  4. libertadrocks

    libertadrocks Well-Known Member

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    Murray is expected to be the starting RB when Felix Jones returns. He also had the best 3 game stretch in Cowboy history(which is full of great RBs). He is good. That doesnt excuse poor tackling tho.

    Torry Smith has the talent just not the confidence. When he gets on a role he is hard to control.

    Building depth through player development is a key for the long term success of any "regime", but this "regime" has not had adequate time. It takes years of drafting. Go back and look at the roster before BillyD took over and you will see exactly what Im talking about. Furthermore, injuries to key positions not only have a impact at that position but on the whole team. The team has to compensate for the short comings in the banged up position. That can explain some if the self inflicted problems we have seen.

    The mental lapses(penalties and blown assignments) are inexcusable. Same with missed tackles.
  5. -X-

    -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    I know. And nobody said it was THE reason. This thread is more comparative in nature. There's a lot more to it than that.

    [ Post made via Mobile Device ] [​IMG]
  6. Anonymous

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    Then conduit this: Seahawks were hurt by letting Hasselbeck WALK and having zero faith in Whitehurst. As for continuity with the coaching staff I'm all for it as long as it's working. On offense it's not working. Defense is debateable as the next 7 games should shed light on that. I keep reading about the difference in McD's offense yet I can't see it. We give the defenders a free pass past 15 yards. All dink and dunk....FOR YEARS. Injuries.......to WRs, sure....but no replacements......that's inexcusable.....good FOs find the players. A new OC with a system familiar to SB....TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIS STRENGTHS.....wouldn't set him back. TE this TE that....it's always the Linehan offense and it makes me sick to see it year after year.
  7. Ram Quixote

    Ram Quixote Knight Errant

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    Cause and effect. Football has always been a game of attrition. One guy goes out another is expected to go in and do the same job. But there's also the confidence factor, and we know from interviews that confidence was an issue through the first 6 games. Confidence = trust on the field, and the defense has found it.

    But in those early games, with players falling out ontop of everything else, guys were trying to do too much at times, exposing lanes and not setting the edge. On defense, you could sense the need to make a play, and lane discipline suffered. That's certainly injury-related.

    On a team with experienced depth this doesn't happen, but the Rams home-grown depth, outside of Jackson and Bartell, stops at 2008. That leaves a handful of FA vets and 2-4 year players to fill all the holes. Rookies are supposed to be role players, barring the occasional standout.

    If you draft extremely well, if circumstances and talent pan out, you might become a good team sooner, but there have been several detours and out-right roadblocks to the Rams' success in the last 3 years.

    All teams deal with injuries. But what team has the depth to absorb 9 CBs on IR?
  8. -X-

    -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    "Conduit this"? :rofl: What does that even mean?

    Have you explored why the offense isn't working yet? The reason for the short yardage plays now being called? Any idea why there have been a lack of replacements at receiver prior to this off-season? Tell me how they "find" the players. Go back to 2009 and tell me who they sign, and where they get the money. Go back to 2010 and tell me who they sign that would have signed here. I don't like it either. It was to the point that I was rallying for Terrell Owens because he would have come cheap and fit under the cap. Who were the marquee free agent wide receivers they could have grabbed in 2010? Moss? Where is he? Vincent Jackson? Never would have happened, and in fact didn't happen for anyone. His contract demands were ludicrous. Braylon Edwards? Didn't want to sign here. The other guy I really wanted this off-season was Plaxico Burress. I saw no downside to that at all. And I'm still not sure why he wasn't pursued.

    This is an area that needs work. Bringing guys in, and evaluating them after they're brought in. There's some inadequacies in that regard (IMO), and as such, is a shared responsibility between GM and coach. I honestly see less control for Spagnuolo in development of the roster going forward -- if he's retained. Devaney has done fairly well bringing in guys on the cheap (Gibson, Alexander, Amendola), but I think what we ALL want is a guy like Megatron or Dez Bryant. There were none of those guys around for the past few years. Not a one. Hopefully we address that in this upcoming draft. Jefferey would be my choice.
  9. -X-

    -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Get out of my head.
  10. Anonymous

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    Conduit was your word not mine.....conduit, conjunction.....I worry about you. :lmao: Sorry but I completely reject the notion that I have to name the replacements available as that's not my job. It's the "professionals" job. A job that gets done on successful teams. Whether off the street or a whorehouse in Amsterdam I don't care where just as long as they are found.
  11. Anonymous

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    HOO YAHHHH!!!!!! I agree. Excellent post.
  12. -X-

    -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Well, then, to borrow one of your lines, "I call BS on the Monday morning stuff."

    It's easy to bemoan the lack of receivers, but it's not quite as easy to suggest where they should have come from. It's not that hard to do. Just look at the free agent list prior to the 2009 season and pick someone. But, remember, you have to account for zero cap dollars. In 2010, just do the same thing. But, remember, you have to account for the 215-220 players that were prohibited from declaring unrestricted free agency if they were eligible. They had to become restricted free agents due to the CBA. Go through the draft and pick someone. Where we picked. Has to be a playmaker there, right? Somewhere? All I'm saying is, it's easier said than done. The alternative is to paint Devaney as a guy who is purposefully denying this team playmakers because he doesn't care about job security. Do you know how many holes were left after the fire sale of 2009? Starters, that is? Seventeen.

    Shouldn't anyone be able to fill 17 holes (and then provide depth at the same positions) in 3 off-seasons? Now do you see why I say injuries played a big PART in the problems this team is facing. A lot of other teams can afford to lose players here and there because they have the depth to compensate. There are teams that can't do that though. New England, believe it or not, is one of them. They have, what, the last place defense in the league? That's primarily because their defense has a ton of injuries. So much so, that they had to play a wide receiver at nickel for 4 plays last night. Part of that is REALLY poor drafting on Belichick's part too. Anyway, it should be a small consolation that Spagnuolo is able to field a really good defense in spite of what's going on back there in the secondary. Now if the Rams had an offense like New England has, and the personnel that have played in it continuously for years, then maybe our defense wouldn't be as big an issue. Much easier to play defense with a lead than it is to play from behind. MUCH easier.
  13. Angry Ram

    Angry Ram aka Captain RAmerica aka the OG Rammer

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    Did anyone watch the begining of last nite's game? Rachel Nichols said that Aaron Rodgers and his WRs have been together for 5 years now. No one left andd no one is hurt. In the same system. Kinda helps.

    Rams? We saw Amendola go down game one. Then DX and Gibson get dinged up. They get better, Salas gets IRd. Then DX gets banged up again. Oh look Lloyd comes here and Clayton gets off the PUP. Then Bradford gets an ankle sprain and Clayton hurts his Achilles.
  14. -X-

    -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Our secondary has not been our problem? Our secondary is not our problem NOW. You honestly can say that this team didn't get shredded in the passing game early on in the season? Did you miss Torrey Smith's performance, or the 20 yard cushion afforded to DeSean Jackson? Or Jordy Nelson averaging 51 yards per catch? Believe me, it was a problem. So much so that Spagnuolo changed it to a cover 2. That's not even his defense he's running out there right now. You see glimpses of man-press, but it's far from his defense.

    3 years is enough to build a roster through the draft, eh? I'm just going to disagree with that. Three years isn't even enough time to build a defensive line - let alone an entire team. I need you to take your eyes off the stats for a moment and tell me how 5 defensive players are going to absorb an entire defensive system in one fifth of an off-season. Osmosis? Individually, guys like Mikell, Bannan, Muir, Poppinga, Leber and Harris are probably good players in their own right. You can't honestly expect them to understand all of their responsibilities and assignments in 6 weeks, can you? And act as a cohesive unit at the same time?

    And yes, you're right. Our injuries (outside of corner) are nothing out of the ordinary. Our depth at any given position is inadequate by comparison. That's team-wide. But what you're telling me is that we should have quality depth at 22 positions and should have done it in 3 far from ordinary off-seasons. I have to disagree.

    Seriously, am I the only one who sees things the way I see them? This Rams team shouldn't miss a beat with everything that has transpired since Spagnuolo and Devaney took over? There should have been NO negative impact at all? Injuries, new system, new players, no off-season, rookies as starters, rookies as depth, street free agents starting in the middle of the season, guys on the roster who weren't even in camp to start the season. None of this makes any difference? Coach should just spank some ass? Okay then. I guess I'm done stating my case. Yeah, not really.
  15. -X-

    -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    And that's something that should get resolved by the owner. I think Devaney does a fine job bringing guys in. Spagnuolo doesn't seem to have the best feel for talent once they end up on his plate. Jason Smith was an obvious mistake, but not many saw that coming. Fendi was a reach that could have paid off HUGE if he developed, but he didn't so it's a busted pick. I don't mind the occasional "reach" in the latter rounds if it has the potential to pay off.

    But anyway, in order of rank, you put it like this - when it comes to the record?

    1. Discipline
    2. Roster development / personnel
    3. Injuries
  16. Angry Ram

    Angry Ram aka Captain RAmerica aka the OG Rammer

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    Well you can't have development if they are always hurt. You can't have your starting WRs and backups always hurt and expect them to be a well oiled machine when they come back or rooks come in right away. That's the difference w/ teams like the Pack vs. Rams.
  17. bluecoconuts

    bluecoconuts Well-Known Member

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    The problem is guys aren't getting the chance to develop, and contrary to popular belief throwing someone into a game before they are ready can really hurt development and destroy a player. Some players (like Bradford) can be ready to play right away, some need to be eased in and some need a year or so. When we have tons of injuries we can't afford to let the guys develop as they need to be.
  18. Ram Quixote

    Ram Quixote Knight Errant

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    1. I think I said that.
    2. If you're not dealing with expansion-level talent to begin with. The Rams had 4 players on their roster after the '09 purge that had been drafted/UDFAs (Jackson, Bartell, Atogwe, Barron). The hole in the Rams depth was the size of the '06 & '07 drafts. We should have 5-7 holdovers from that time, and we don't.
    3. Yes it is. You're taking the injuries to the secondary and encapsulating them, as if they wouldn't affect the front 7, and it does. Just like the offense's failings affect the defense. Cause and effect reaches a lot farther than you think.
    4. See number 3.

    Too many people see the little picture. "He painted the fence red. That's why it's red." Forgetting to wonder at the influences that caused him to paint it red.

    Fred Robbins left a lane wide open on the 91-yard run in the Dallas game. That was a mental lapse, right? He should have known better, right? Now, ask yourself why would he do such a thing on a running play? If you try, you can probably come up with a couple reasons that have less to do with undisciplined play, despite the fact that it was a totally reckless thing to do.
  19. -X-

    -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    I see that Green Bay comparison all the time. Take a look again at the core players they had, and then take a look at the guys who stepped in. Show me the rookies who took over the starting position. Show me a position that was affected with more than one injury. Show me how the offense was affected AT ALL by what happened there. Rodgers, Nelson, Driver, Jennings, etc. Nevermind the defense.

    But even more important than that. Look at their drafts from the previous 5 years. Look at the guys from those drafts that are still on the roster to this day. Then look at the Rams' drafts going back to 2006. Show me all the guys still on the roster from the previous regime. I don't think there's anyone from 2006 that's even in football anymore. 2007 was just as bad. THAT, good sir, is where you get your depth.

    You're comparing Rodgers and their core of receivers (and OL depth) to the Rams and their sophomore QB, 2nd year receivers, and pointing out their ONE corner that they lost. And you're comparing the Rams to a Championship team built over a long stretch of time. A better comparison would be to compare the Rams to another team that started needing 17 starters 3 years ago, and then lost a good deal of them to injury. Know any of THOSE teams?

    Yeah, now we're done. :razzed:
  20. Angry Ram

    Angry Ram aka Captain RAmerica aka the OG Rammer

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    Ding ding ding!!!

    Not like Madden where someone has a "93 catch" and "94 route running."