Aaron Donald at RDE

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shaunpinney

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I wouldn't move Donald to DE, I don't think he'll have the same impact. We need another DE to replace losing Long, as soon as you have another decent DE you'll see Quinn and Donald's numbers go up. I think people forget that Long and Quinn complemented each other. And kept the opposition honest, I believe this 'thunderstorm' aided in Donald's over-all success. We need a true replacement for Long opposite Quinn - then, and only then we'll see our D-line improve.
 

jrry32

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That used to be true but no longer. Quinn ain't what he used to be.

I hope he bounces back next year but meh. Not expecting it.

It's still true. When Quinn is out, our pass rush sucks. Donald gets doubled. The rest of the guys provide nothing consistent. Donald does what he can, but he's not going to beat a double team more often than not.
 

BonifayRam

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I wouldn't move Donald to DE, I don't think he'll have the same impact. We need another DE to replace losing Long, as soon as you have another decent DE you'll see Quinn and Donald's numbers go up. I

I would not advocate that AD pick up his belongings & totally move from his 3 technique DT post either but moving AD around to seek to probe weak pass protection OL'ers helps to create havoc in the pre planned blocking schemes to neutralize AD by the OL at the DT position. DT Easley is a very good 3 technique DT so you not going to loose too much with AD lining up in another DL post.

I agree you fully on the need for a PASS RUSHING DE. What we do not need is more DE's like Eugene Sims or Matt Longacre or Wm Hayes or Ethan Westbrooks who all are generally good at all the requirements but non have very good pass rushing skills like a Quinn or a Little had. The key is maintain your outside pass rush threat by any means here.
For the first time all season, Donald was anonymous on Sunday against the Pats which may or may not have had something to do with the fact that Quinn didn't play at all on Sunday.
Your thought is close on target but I would look at it this way & emphasize the fact that RDE Eugene Sims was the starter @ RDE, & point directly at him as the main reason the Pats could double & triple up on AD with little fear that Sims could threaten Brady in the least bit in the pass rush area. Sims has shown over & over thru the yrs that when he starts in place of Quinn he is nothing more than a neutralized player from the moment the ball is in the hands of the QB. If you think I am wrong see if you can find any evidence that he started @ RDE last Sunday in the stats.

Penetration up the middle is better than the edge. Donald should stay inside. Also Quinn was playing great at the beginning of the year before getting hurt. He's an All Pro, you don't take him off the field for an experiment. He's been a leader in FF since he's been playing, including the games he's missed.
I would say both are important because giving a QB a right or left outside wing to maneuver around in is just as deadly. Point is Easley is our best pass rusher outside AD at the moment if your fielding a weak pass rushing team at both DE posts the ripple effect causes bad outcomes as we have seen now for several months.

I would not agree fully with you on your assessment of Quinn's play early in the season. I thought he played his best 2 games in game 2 &3 of the season. Since the 3rd game against Tampa Bay game he has been very soft in his performance & is light years in distance away from any 2016 all pro consideration. What I see is in Quinn is a DE who is worn down & unhealthy from his 6 seasons of wear. I see no evidence that Quinn can play fulltime or for a full season any longer. Modifications will be needed to have at least 1 outside pass rushing treat week by week during regular season.
He did have back surgery last year, and I'm not sure he's been playing at 100% health this year. Couple that with a couple of missed games for assorted other injuries, and that might explain it. Not to mention, nobody, including the present coaching staff, seems to care that he is blatantly held on almost every play and somehow the guilty OL of the other team never get called for it.I'll agree he's having down year, but I don't want to jump to too many conclusions just yet.
Quinn playing healthy.....most likely not since 2014 season has Quinn played healthy. Quinn is about to conclude two back to back UNHEALTY seasons with a various many different ailments & issues. Body Damage has taken an early toll in 6 NFL seasons. Your right, I also am :mad: at the refs for turning their eyes away from ongoing holding & hands to the face molestations being committed on Quinn while lasering in on GROB nick picking every play with their hand on the red flag before the ball is snapped. Nothing agitates :rant:me more on Sundays & its been ongoing now for years. Many will say its just child like whining I say its blatant :poop:. If Quinn is capable of playing this week maybe a short term solution is to use Longacre instead of Sims on run downs & use Quinn on a limited role in probable passing situation to help him out some on the wear & tear. But Gregg does not do this.

The standard Gregg RDE rotations is where Sims comes in for a series of downs or a complete series & Sims finds himself playing on many passing situations...that is a proven non effective plan. Quinn come in & ends up playing on series with large amount's of running downs. IMO you change your rotation specifically @ RDE on the probable upcoming offensive play. As far as to jumping to conclusions....doing the same thing season after season @ RDE in order to not to look like your jumping to conclusions when something has not worked in two seasons???? Some jumping is mandated when you end up concluding your teams 5th losing season in a row. Jumping to conclusions to end up at the right conclusion is the ideal way to jump;).


Bottom Line here .... Its highly important to have at least one pass rushing capable DE on the field to maximize AD inside. Rams have only one pass rushing DE & that's Quinn. I would change what they have been doing & go into a special plan for the rest of this season of ensuring Quinn, Donald & Easley are on the field in all passing situations this appear to me would mean making every attempt to save Quinn from all the HD run downs. Let Westbrooks, Longacre & a little Sims get all that run action & preserve as best as you can for Quinn best talent & skill....the pass rush. Without a healthy pass rushing threat from Quinn this defense turns mushy & weak.
 
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Psycho_X

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I thought they had been moving him to DE a lot this season? Or at least I know they did whenever we had that couple game stretch when Quinn, Hayes, and Brockers were all injured.
 

thirteen28

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The standard Gregg RDE rotations is where Sims comes in for a series of downs or a complete series & Sims finds himself playing on many passing situations...that is a proven non effective plan. Quinn come in & ends up playing on series with large amount's of running downs. IMO you change your rotation specifically @ RDE on the probable upcoming offensive play. As far as to jumping to conclusions....doing the same thing season after season @ RDE in order to not to look like your jumping to conclusions when something has not worked in two seasons???? Some jumping is mandated when you end up concluding your teams 5th losing season in a row. Jumping to conclusions to end up at the right conclusion is the ideal way to jump;).


Bottom Line here .... Its highly important to have at least one pass rushing capable DE on the field to maximize AD inside. Rams have only one pass rushing DE & that's Quinn. I would change what they have been doing & go into a special plan for the rest of this season of ensuring Quinn, Donald & Easley are on the field in all passing situations this appear to me would mean making every attempt to save Quinn from all the HD run downs. Let Westbrooks, Longacre & a little Sims get all that run action & preserve as best as you can for Quinn best talent & skill....the pass rush. Without a healthy pass rushing threat from Quinn this defense turns mushy & weak.

I could get on board with this idea, i.e. changing the rotations to keep Quinn on the field during obvious passing downs and let the depth handle the other times.

I hope Quinn can fully heal this offseason, because his talent is hard to replace and absent some incredible stroke of good luck, we won't likely be able to do so in next year's draft.
 

LACHAMP46

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Move AD around a little...sure...how about some stunts & twists? instead of all the blitzing, but I digress...
I'm just pointing out that tackles as a DL don't mean anything. It's not their job to get tackles.
DT's maybe...DE's...when guys are running off tackle? No stats? Really? Hell, I want my DT's to make some plays on the ball too...or they need to be replaced.

Quinn...robert....Never understood why he decided to go the Fred Dryer route to conditioning and stay so damn slim in such a violent game...Never...Doesn't set the edge well.....just blasts upfield in search of....in search of what? Running himself out of the play? I love Quinn...the 2012 guy...the 2013 guy...the 2014 guy....this Quinn is basically a shell of that guy with 19 sacks..threat on every play to change the game...this guy doesn't even make tackles... on a 4-8 team...Can't have the highest paid players at positions, Tavons, Quinns, Kendricks, Saffolds, Tru's....those are the $$$$ leaders....and look at their numbers...Only guy earning his money...hell, even Barron is slipping a lil...but damn his effort. Terrible for team morale...
 

BonifayRam

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Move AD around a little...sure...how about some stunts & twists? instead of all the blitzing, but I digress...
DT's maybe...DE's...when guys are running off tackle? No stats? Really? Hell, I want my DT's to make some plays on the ball too...or they need to be replaced.

Quinn...robert....Never understood why he decided to go the Fred Dryer route to conditioning and stay so damn slim in such a violent game...Never...Doesn't set the edge well.....just blasts upfield in search of....in search of what? Running himself out of the play? I love Quinn...the 2012 guy...the 2013 guy...the 2014 guy....this Quinn is basically a shell of that guy with 19 sacks..threat on every play to change the game...this guy doesn't even make tackles... on a 4-8 team...Can't have the highest paid players at positions, Tavons, Quinns, Kendricks, Saffolds, Tru's....those are the $$$$ leaders....and look at their numbers...Only guy earning his money...hell, even Barron is slipping a lil...but damn his effort. Terrible for team morale...
:yess::bow: & a Amen
 

Merlin

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It's still true. When Quinn is out, our pass rush sucks. Donald gets doubled. The rest of the guys provide nothing consistent. Donald does what he can, but he's not going to beat a double team more often than not.

Dude. I get that you love to nitpick, but c'mon. Rams are 24th in the league in sacks. We have only 2 more sacks than the whiners, who are ranked 30th. Only 5 more than the Browns at the bottom.

This defense sucks. And Quinn is part of the reason why.
 

…..

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Dude. I get that you love to nitpick, but c'mon. Rams are 24th in the league in sacks. We have only 2 more sacks than the whiners, who are ranked 30th. Only 5 more than the Browns at the bottom.

This defense sucks. And Quinn is part of the reason why.

Easy Merlin, this defense doesnt suck. Even after rthe Saints and Pats we are ranked 10th.

I will agree our pass rush is way off. Sacks are down and aeveral of the ones we do have come from blitzing DB's. I think Quinns game is off and I think Gregg tinkers too much with exotic bullshit.

Donald to RDE.....I dunno. Sparingly. What makes anyone think Donald can be as effective out there on that Island? His expertise is in handling his business in the middle.
 

Merlin

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Easy Merlin, this defense doesnt suck. Even after rthe Saints and Pats we are ranked 10th.

I will agree our pass rush is way off. Sacks are down and aeveral of the ones we do have come from blitzing DB's. I think Quinns game is off and I think Gregg tinkers too much with exotic bullcrap.

Donald to RDE.....I dunno. Sparingly. What makes anyone think Donald can be as effective out there on that Island? His expertise is in handling his business in the middle.

This defense is 15th in scoring Dog. Given the talent on that side of the ball, the fact that we have a predominantly defensive staff, and the fact so many key players are supposed to be in their prime years, to include Quinn, they are underperforming.

And it's not over yet. By this time next week, after seeing Atlanta, it's gonna be worse. And even though our defense has played well vs Seattle, I think this game in Seattle is going to be different, that they're going to work us over good. IMO this defense is starting to quit. Hope I'm wrong, I really do. But the way I see it we are in the middle of the unraveling stage right before the regime is fired.
 

TheDYVKX

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Move AD around a little...sure...how about some stunts & twists? instead of all the blitzing, but I digress...
DT's maybe...DE's...when guys are running off tackle? No stats? Really? Hell, I want my DT's to make some plays on the ball too...or they need to be replaced.

Quinn...robert....Never understood why he decided to go the Fred Dryer route to conditioning and stay so damn slim in such a violent game...Never...Doesn't set the edge well.....just blasts upfield in search of....in search of what? Running himself out of the play? I love Quinn...the 2012 guy...the 2013 guy...the 2014 guy....this Quinn is basically a shell of that guy with 19 sacks..threat on every play to change the game...this guy doesn't even make tackles... on a 4-8 team...Can't have the highest paid players at positions, Tavons, Quinns, Kendricks, Saffolds, Tru's....those are the $$$$ leaders....and look at their numbers...Only guy earning his money...hell, even Barron is slipping a lil...but damn his effort. Terrible for team morale...

If a DE can get tackles, it's great. But it's not their responsibility. Their job is to force the runner inside and contain. Judging any DL by their tackles is just wrong and doesn't mean they're playing poorly.
 

jrry32

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Dude. I get that you love to nitpick, but c'mon. Rams are 24th in the league in sacks. We have only 2 more sacks than the whiners, who are ranked 30th. Only 5 more than the Browns at the bottom.

This defense sucks. And Quinn is part of the reason why.

You "c'mon." This isn't nitpicking. I'm not fixing a minor detail. I'm disagreeing with your entire argument. Our "sucky" defense is 12th in DPPG Allowed and 10th in YPG Allowed. That's after the New Orleans massacre. We were top 5 before that.

And our lack of sacks is tied to the sort of defense we play.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team as a whole looks bad to end the year. I'm concerned that the guys might be throwing in the towel on Fisher. But this defense doesn't suck and claiming Quinn isn't a positive when he's out there is nuts.
 

Merlin

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I wouldn't be surprised if the team as a whole looks bad to end the year. I'm concerned that the guys might be throwing in the towel on Fisher. But this defense doesn't suck and claiming Quinn isn't a positive when he's out there is nuts.

What I am saying is that Quinn isn't getting it done. He is not the same guy and you're avoiding that completely in your argument. The dude has 4 sacks. Sure, maybe him out there is better than going to the depth chart, but that means nothing in relation to the discussion I started, where I make the suggestion to give Donald a shot on the blindside.

And before you disregard it based on your memory of the OLD Quinn, consider what a QB feels knowing he's got AD on his blindside. This is something they can do on passing downs, along with moving him all over the DL, to force matchups that favor them. There is precedent for doing it, that type of thing has value, and tbh I am surprised that Williams hasn't been doing more of it given the way Quinn's playing.

I'll bet you we start to see more of that here down the stretch, too. It's not some out of left field concept, where a disruptive DL gets moved around for greater effectiveness vs blocking schemes. It can work if done correctly, and GW is a good DC who should be able to swing it schematically.
 

RamFan503

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Well first of all, they have moved him around. He doesn't spend a lot of time on the edge but he does line up there. Second - I like having Donald immediately in the backfield as he has had a major impact against the run AND forcing the pocket. It hasn't shown as well the last two games but I like seeing him stay in tight.
 

jrry32

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What I am saying is that Quinn isn't getting it done. He is not the same guy and you're avoiding that completely in your argument. The dude has 4 sacks. Sure, maybe him out there is better than going to the depth chart, but that means nothing in relation to the discussion I started, where I make the suggestion to give Donald a shot on the blindside.

Donald doesn't need a shot there. That isn't going to make his job any easier.

What you're saying are two entirely different things. Don't accuse me of avoiding something because you won't stick with an argument.

Quinn isn't getting it done is wrong. I challenged you on that. Quinn not being the same elite player isn't wrong. I'm not challenging you on that.

And before you disregard it based on your memory of the OLD Quinn, consider what a QB feels knowing he's got AD on his blindside. This is something they can do on passing downs, along with moving him all over the DL, to force matchups that favor them. There is precedent for doing it, that type of thing has value, and tbh I am surprised that Williams hasn't been doing more of it given the way Quinn's playing.

That makes the QB very happy. Because he doesn't have Quinn attacking the edge keeping him from taking a deep drop while Donald collapses the pocket from the middle.

I'd be relieved if Donald lined up at RDE and pushed Quinn to the bench. It's a lot easier for me to double Donald on passing downs when he's at RDE with no Quinn in the game than it is for me to double Donald when he's a 3-technique with Quinn in the game.

I'll bet you we start to see more of that here down the stretch, too. It's not some out of left field concept, where a disruptive DL gets moved around for greater effectiveness vs blocking schemes. It can work if done correctly, and GW is a good DC who should be able to swing it schematically.

I'm fine with Donald lining up at DE on passing downs. But if I do that, I'm having him play LDE and keeping Quinn on the field.
 

Merlin

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Point is Easley is our best pass rusher outside AD at the moment if your fielding a weak pass rushing team at both DE posts the ripple effect causes bad outcomes as we have seen now for several months.

Precisely. Easley needs to have someone spelling him of course, and on run snaps keep AD in there on the interior. Passing downs, however, I don't think there's an OT who could handle AD in space.

AD is that good in my estimation. Right now he'd be > Quinn in that position.

I was watching the Pats game too, and that "rush 3" BS Williams was pulling really irked the F out of me. The Pats simmply tripled AD up front, was terrible man, and the extra DB didn't make a difference.
 

jrry32

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Precisely. Easley needs to have someone spelling him of course, and on run snaps keep AD in there on the interior. Passing downs, however, I don't think there's an OT who could handle AD in space.

AD is that good in my estimation. Right now he'd be > Quinn in that position.

I was watching the Pats game too, and that "rush 3" BS Williams was pulling really irked the F out of me. The Pats simmply tripled AD up front, was terrible man, and the extra DB didn't make a difference.

I'm really tiring of that 3-man rush nonsense from Williams. There's no reason for it. Blitzing Ogletree or McDonald doesn't do more for us than an extra pass rusher does.
 

BonifayRam

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I'm really tiring of that 3-man rush nonsense from Williams. There's no reason for it. Blitzing Ogletree or McDonald doesn't do more for us than an extra pass rusher does.

Agree .....we sure have not discussed this much or if we have please excuse me here but I have this this 3 man rush do nothing but FAIL over & over again. the same can be said about the dropping of Brockers or other DL'ers back into coverage one big joke that has also failed. What gives with this nonsense:rant:?

I do know from last season that of all of our back seven personnel two have been effective that Mark Barron (had five sacks since he arrived from TB) & our deep safety Mo Alexander (had 2 sacks last season) but this season it been MIA? :thinking: