20/20 Hindsight

[DrLurkalot]

Hey Everyone. Haven't posted in awhile - been lurking, though. Can't wait for a season where the upcoming draft isn't the most exciting part of the year. Just was thinking that if I were Bradford's agent, there's no way I would renegotiate his contract. The Rams are trapped. The Rams and Fisher are desperate for a winning season and there's only one quarterback in the world who has some talent, knows the offense, and is available or already on the roster. There really are no other options if you are the Rams and if I were his agent I'd call the Rams bluff if a cut is threatened. The draft might produce someone who will be good down the road, but not for next season. Hope I'm wrong and Bradford provides us some cap room for an offensive lineman. If he does, I think it's more about Bradford being a team player and high character guy as opposed to a good businessman. Wish we had a time machine. When Davis was having those few good games, we could have had Bradford for next to nothing -but as they say - hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Not sure how much leverage the fact that there's not many (of any) viable options to replace Bradford at QB right now... but it does give Bradford's agent some leverage.

The options are pretty bad right now.

 

[Merlin]

The agent works for the player, not the other way around. I think people are overplaying Bradford's options. It benefits him to help the team with his cap figure because they can upgrade at least one OL position to ensure it's not gonna be Saffold and a bunch of younguns in front of him.

Doing that also allows the Rams other options in the draft. Signing a strong FA OL might allow them to go BPA at 10 which could be one of the two outstanding big receivers in this draft. That will in turn allow him his best opportunity to put up good numbers and insulates him and the team against Quick having a setback.

It all comes back around, so I just don't think Sam's stance is to throttle the Rams for as much as he can. Any potential hangups are probably on length of contract where I would assume Sam would like some security while the Rams would want to keep it short as possible while spreading the money.

 

[junkman]

I know the league is full of QB desperate teams, but is there really a team out there that would throw $13M at Bradford? I mean, the guy did have back to back ACL ended seasons, and it's not like he was posting huge numbers otherwise. After 5 years, he's still more potential than proven production. Would a GM (other than the Rams) really want to stake their career on that?

I can't see Sam going anywhere. Sam needs the Rams as much as the Rams need Sam.

 

[Fatbot]

I just don't think Sam's stance is to throttle the Rams for as much as he can.

I agree with your sentiment on Bradford wanting to help the team, but until I see some statement from Bradford that his agent is open to a mutually-beneficial arrangement, that's all it is: emotional sentiment, not truth.

Yes agents are supposed to work for their clients best interests, but it usually means the bottom line dollars, not "make the team better so it benefits him too". Agents have shown time and time again they want to stick it to the team as much as possible. An example is the Flacco disaster contract, many felt the cap casualties following that deal were because of Flacco's obscene cap number. The agent had no sympathy for that and just called the team dumb: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...t-never-seen-a-dumber-move-joe-linta/2361599/

Bradford's agent, Tom Condon, is also infamous about not caring about any "team benefit" arguments. He had Ben Watson hold out as a rookie because he felt the deal was too team friendly and not enough in his client's interests. Instead of caving in, Condon resigned and Watson had to get a new agent: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1859851&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233

At a minimum Condon becomes a complete pain in the ass whenever it looks like the team is gaining any leverage over him. Good example is when Brandon Lloyd said he wanted to follow Josh McDaniels to New England, but Condon hates New England so instead of an easy signing made a dog & pony show out of it, had Lloyd visit San Francisco for fake leverage, etc. Lloyd ended up where he wanted to be all along, but it wasn't easy.

Maybe Bradford does what fans hope and restructures for some cap relief, but I don't think it's as easy as some want. I am wary of this agent being backed into a corner with no leverage because he has shown he'd rather be irrational and ignore his client than lose. The claws might come out and we get an outcome where both sides become bitter, and Bradford walks.

Or perhaps imagine this scenario, they bitterly disagree but with no other options the Rams have to start Bradford at his current cap number. He kicks butt, the Rams go to the playoffs. They lose but look poised to challenge for the Super Bowl in 2016. Slight problem though -- their QB that just resurrected his career and took them to the playoffs and the brink of the Super Bowl is now a free agent..!

So I think Bradford has plenty of leverage on both sides. He could threaten to walk now and the Rams have no QB option this season. Or he could threaten to play out his walk year with the risk the Rams are in a horrible negotiating position a year from now. A skilled agent very quickly turns the situation upside down and Bradford starts thinking the Rams need him more than he needs them.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Isn't Condon the agent for some Rams coach or something? I might be wrong.

 

[Dodgersrf]

If Bradford's agent doesn't want to renegotiate a deal, then he can kick rocks on they way out of town.
We can still cut him and move up in the draft to get Winston or Mariota.
More money for FA o linemen if this is the case.

I'd rather keep Bradford tough, and build the oline through the draft AND FA

 

[jjab360]

I love Sam but if he doesn't renegotiate then we have options. A trade for Cutler or Foles or a trade up for Winston or Mariota are very much options on the table. Anybody who thinks Bradford holds all the cards here with a fubar knee couldn't be more wrong.

 

[ram007]

Bradford shouldn't change a thing on his contract. Why should he? Rams cannot win without him in 2015. They cannot finish 7-9 without him. Rams are stuck with Bradford and that is the reason Rams are trying to upsell Bradford to fans this year and profuse their un-shakable confidence in him since there is no alternative option.

 

[Warner4Prez]

So I think Bradford has plenty of leverage on both sides. He could threaten to walk now and the Rams have no QB option this season. Or he could threaten to play out his walk year with the risk the Rams are in a horrible negotiating position a year from now. A skilled agent very quickly turns the situation upside down and Bradford starts thinking the Rams need him more than he needs them.

Not sure if you're implying that Bradford would hold out over a possible restructure of his contract, but if it were to go down like that, he'd also be walking out on an NFL career. I think the Rams do need Bradford right now, but I also think that Bradford's best course of action would be to restructure an extension that goes through 2017. Two years to show he can stay healthy and win, then come 2017 maybe there's an opt out option?

 

[ReddingRam]

I put it to Bradford like this ... "Sam .. you can help us help YOU by redoing this thing and giving us the ability to continue building you a strong OL ... OR ... you can expect another shredded knee and end to your career ..... good talk "

 

[snackdaddy]

If the free agent quarterback market wasn't so bleak, the team would have more leverage. I'm sure Condom knows that. There are really no other viable options. No one in the free agent market is going to lead this team to the playoffs. And a mid round rookie might even be worse.

So we gotta pay a guy with 2 ACL tears under his belt a boatload because everyone else sucks. Or we cut him and move on. Worst case scenario would be to pay him and he goes down for the season again. Or we don't extend him, pay him what we owe him and he stays healthy and moves on as a free agent. Tough choices. Ideally he would restructure something more team friendly, but can we really hold out hope for that?

 

[Alan]

Merlin hoping for the best:
The agent works for the player, not the other way around. I think people are overplaying Bradford's options. It benefits him to help the team with his cap figure because they can upgrade at least one OL position to ensure it's not gonna be Saffold and a bunch of younguns in front of him.

Doing that also allows the Rams other options in the draft. Signing a strong FA OL might allow them to go BPA at 10 which could be one of the two outstanding big receivers in this draft. That will in turn allow him his best opportunity to put up good numbers and insulates him and the team against Quick having a setback.

It all comes back around, so I just don't think Sam's stance is to throttle the Rams for as much as he can. Any potential hangups are probably on length of contract where I would assume Sam would like some security while the Rams would want to keep it short as possible while spreading the money.

I think that's a fairly realistic take on the situation.

As for the possibility of being able to go BPA, I wouldn't use that freedom on a WR. Leaving aside for a moment that we need to draft a top O-lineman in the draft even if we get someone good in FA, I would merely extend the possibilities of a real FS or a stud LB so we can go back to a, IMO, normal defense. Even so, I'd still go O-line because we have more than one hole we have to fill. Sam's second injury, given the lack of an available of a starting caliber QB on the horizon, it's even more important to keep the hits and pressure off him as much as possible.

 

[8to12]

Or perhaps imagine this scenario, they bitterly disagree but with no other options the Rams have to start Bradford at his current cap number. He kicks butt, the Rams go to the playoffs. They lose but look poised to challenge for the Super Bowl in 2016. Slight problem though -- their QB that just resurrected his career and took them to the playoffs and the brink of the Super Bowl is now a free agent..!

If you let him play out this final year of his contract with him staying healthy and being proficient, wouldn't you just Franchise Tag him?

He's already one of the highest paid QB's, so paying him the average of the top 10 at his position wouldn't be much more than what they are already paying him.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

If you let him play out this final year of his contract with him staying healthy and being proficient, wouldn't you just Franchise Tag him?

He's already one of the highest paid QB's, so paying him the average of the top 10 at his position wouldn't be much more than what they are already paying him.

No because the franchise tag amount for the non-exclusive tag is either average of the top 10 at his position OR 120% of his previous years salary whichever is greater. His current cap hit is approx 16$ million. So 120% of that is approx 20$ million. That is a 4 million dollar raise and a lot of cap space for a guy that hasn't proven to even be top 10 material yet.
(Note: I am under the assumption that 120% of salary refers to the cap salary number. Please correct me if this assumption is incorrect)

I am of the opinion that Bradford has no business reason to renegotiate his contract UNLESS he desires an extension with more secured cash (i.e. signing bonus). Do any of you really want an unproven, oft-injured Bradford stuck in the books all the way until 2017? I'm not so sure I do.

The only incentive he has for taking a pay cut is that it allows money to be spent on the O-line. I think this is perhaps the tactic our FO is banking on. Truth is, if Bradford gets hurt one more time this season, his career is over. You can make an argument for 2 freak ACL tears. But one more major injury and he is done.

Either way, he isn't just going to throwaway money by turning it into incentive based pay unless he gets something out of it. Job security and guaranteed money are the only things the Rams can give him.

 

[Dr C. Hill]

I can't ever recall another situation like this. I am not sure there is a right answer, because there are so many variables here that we have never seen before.

I would love to extend Bradford. However, I don't think that Condon would be a top tier agent for very long if he allowed his client to take a pay cut when the team has no other viable option at QB. Bradford has not been sitting on a beach collecting money for doing nothing, he has been rehabing from two horrific knee injuries that will be with him for the rest of his life! He has no obligation whatsoever to rollover for the Rams. I doubt anyone here would voluntarily give their company back money that they had earned. We have a contract here, both sides knew the risk/reward and both signed on the line that was dotted.

I think this regime is over a barrel: They have to win NOW! Bradford really is the only realistic option, (and he also is on the roster). I don't think there is any way you can start over in year 4 of a rebuild. If you were to take a rookie QB at 10, not only are you expecting them to step up and lead this team from day 1, you are also spending a pick on a position that would at the very best, be a lateral move from what you already have. Secondly, a top 10 pick at a position of need, (not already on the roster) on a team this close should put you in the playoffs.

Of course the worst scenario is trading up. When you already have a depleted draft class, mortgaging your future on an unproven system QB, or an immature potential criminal seems like a recipe for failure to me.

Bradford would be unemployed for about 5 minutes if the Rams were to cut him loose. The reward is too big, and the talent is there to have a top tier QB. There are 15-20 teams that would be blowing up Condon's phone if that happened with multiple years and guaranteed money on the table. Of course, Bradford could blow out his knee again in the first game of the season, and they would look like fools for signing "damaged goods". I see both sides, and there are no easy answers here. If the Rams don't extend him, I hope they play this year out.

 

[8to12]

No because the franchise tag amount for the non-exclusive tag is either average of the top 10 at his position OR 120% of his previous years salary whichever is greater. His current cap hit is approx 16$ million. So 120% of that is approx 20$ million. That is a 4 million dollar raise and a lot of cap space for a guy that hasn't proven to even be top 10 material yet.
(Note: I am under the assumption that 120% of salary refers to the cap salary number. Please correct me if this assumption is incorrect)

I am of the opinion that Bradford has no business reason to renegotiate his contract UNLESS he desires an extension with more secured cash (i.e. signing bonus). Do any of you really want an unproven, oft-injured Bradford stuck in the books all the way until 2017? I'm not so sure I do.

The only incentive he has for taking a pay cut is that it allows money to be spent on the O-line. I think this is perhaps the tactic our FO is banking on. Truth is, if Bradford gets hurt one more time this season, his career is over. You can make an argument for 2 freak ACL tears. But one more major injury and he is done.

Either way, he isn't just going to throwaway money by turning it into incentive based pay unless he gets something out of it. Job security and guaranteed money are the only things the Rams can give him.

Thank you for explaining the Salary increase for the Franchise Tag. I forgot about the 120 % of previous year salary. It is a lot a money for one player that has not been consistent. However, I would still consider it if the Rams turned the corner with him this next season. Right now, his 16-mil salary would be 11% of the Salary cap (approx 145-mil). If you Franchise him, his salary for the next season would be 19.2-mil, or approx 12% of the Cap for the next season (approx 153-mil). So, if the Rams were to get to a 10-6 or 11-5 record with Bradford playing the entire season, the investment in him would be well worth it it my opinion. The percentage of the Cap that his salary takes up wouldn't change much in comparison to the improved success of the team.

And, I agree with you that he has no incentive to renegotiate his contract. If he plays and gets hurt again this season then the Rams will have start fresh with the benefit of no dead money on the books.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Not sure how much leverage the fact that there's not many (of any) viable options to replace Bradford at QB right now... but it does give Bradford's agent some leverage.

The options are pretty bad right now.

I would think that when all is said and done Bradford will prove what a Team Player he is, and sign a contract that Helps the Team!!

 

[mr.stlouis]

If only Bradfords knee would of held up. ARZ had it worse than we did IMO.