Will Goff's Rookie Season Be Statistically Greater Than Or Worse Than Bradford's

[WestCoastRam]

Our offense last year even with Boras calling plays was horrible. Horrible! I wish I had the rose colored glasses to see it differently. I think people are conflating different things too, I'm not making the argument that Shurmur was a great OC, I'm saying he was heads and tails better than Cig last year and Boras until he proves differently. And as much crap as Schottenheimer rightly got, he was heads and tails better than the offensive game planning we got last year. I'm not arguing that these guys are great, I'm just not letting my Rams homer-ism affect what is legitimately a huge problem for us this year, an o-coordinator who hasn't proven he can game plan well. Boras did not show me anything to think that he will be more than a marginal play-caller and game-planner. I hope you guys are right and I hope I'm wrong.

I'm not gonna take the fact that we had a couple gadget plays that we leaned heavily on mean that we had an imaginative playbook. We had pedestrian routes run by our WR's with no creativity beyond the line of scrimmage.

 

[Athos]

And as much crap as Schottenheimer rightly got, he was heads and tails better than the offensive game planning we got last year. I'

Can't disagree, but I'll probably remain the biggest critique of what they call OC-ing for the Rams. Boras looked to be calling the same plays, the execution was better.

Shotty was good at scripted plays. He was absolutely god awful at everything else, hence why pretty much the 2nd QTR on always sucked. Get a bead on Shotty, and the game is over.

 

[WestCoastRam]

@Athos, yeah Schotty was a pretty poor play caller in game. The offensive game plans were always solid, on a few occasions, even spectacular, and the scripted game at the beginning was above average. I found he really floundered in making half-time adjustments and becoming really one-note for multiple series in the passing game.

 

[FarNorth]

Our offense last year even with Boras calling plays was horrible. Horrible! I wish I had the rose colored glasses to see it differently. I think people are conflating different things too, I'm not making the argument that Shurmur was a great OC, I'm saying he was heads and tails better than Cig last year and Boras until he proves differently. And as much crap as Schottenheimer rightly got, he was heads and tails better than the offensive game planning we got last year. I'm not arguing that these guys are great, I'm just not letting my Rams homer-ism affect what is legitimately a huge problem for us this year, an o-coordinator who hasn't proven he can game plan well. Boras did not show me anything to think that he will be more than a marginal play-caller and game-planner. I hope you guys are right and I hope I'm wrong.

I'm not gonna take the fact that we had a couple gadget plays that we leaned heavily on mean that we had an imaginative playbook. We had pedestrian routes run by our WR's with no creativity beyond the line of scrimmage.

No question the passing offense was truly, historically awful last year, and I agree Boras has not shown any great creativity on that front. I thought Boras did a good job with the running game when the line was healthy, and the overall execution improved when he became coordinator, but I seriously doubt he will be asked to come up with the passing plays.

I think the passing game will be up to Groh this year. It has to be different-- didn't 4 or 5 coaches involved get fired?--and that's why they brought him in. Groh said he was hired to bring in some of the stuff Gase used with Manning in Denver and some of Trestman's scheme as well. Let's hope it comes together.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Gurley is easily better than the SJ that Bradford had

Jackson was pretty good Sam's rookie year. Rushed for 1,241yds and added 383yds receiving.

 

[Dodgersrf]

I honestly don't know how you can draw this conclusion. We have only a very limited sample size on Boras, and that was having taken over during the season, and relatively late at that. And still, we did notice marked improvement in several games. At worst, the offense under Boras last year was at least as good as it ever was under Shurmur, and that was with Case Keenum at QB, who is much more limited than Sam.

Shurmur flat-out sucked. He was bad in his two years with the Rams, and was the first to begin coaching Sam into becoming Checkdown Charlie. Shurmur sucked in Cleveland too, and the complaints of their fanbase mirrored ours. And while he had the title of OC in Philly, that was most decidedly not his offense. Yes, he did OK with Bradford in their one year together with the Rams, but that was by severely limiting him. And no, it's not his fault that the talent level wasn't that great, but at the same time the predictability and such were most decidedly his fault.

I think the biggest issue, is that Boris and Groh are still an unknown.
I'm curious to see what they put together.

 

[thirteen28]

Eh, I don't know. Our WRs in 2010 were like 8 games of healthy Clayton/Alexander, a good slot WR in Amendola, ineffective Gibson and Robinson, and a couple TEs who barely belonged on a NFL roster in Bajema and Fells.

It's arguable that Amendola was better than anything we currently have. That'll depend on what Austin and Britt show with a better QB. But I see a much more talented WR corp here now. Britt has the potential to put up 800-1000 yards and 8-10 TDs. We don't know what Austin can be. We just know he's a better weapon than anything on the 2010 Rams. And then we have some young unknowns in Cooper, Higbee, Thomas, Quick, Marquez, and Hemingway.

I'd take our current WR corp over the 2010 version. We have a lot more talent and Britt/Austin are much more talented than Amendola + any other WR on 2010.

You may be right (and I hope you are), and I agree with your last line. I just have battered fan syndrome from years of lacking talent at that position and am at the point where I have to see it to believe. But then again, I did say our WR corps would instantly get better by drafting Goff, so there's hope.

 

[thirteen28]

I think the biggest issue, is that Boris and Groh are still an unknown.
I'm curious to see what they put together.

Agreed, they are unknowns, which is why we can't say Bradford had a better OC situation coming than Goff will. I'm hopeful for Boras and Groh, based on the improvement we saw in the offense once Boras took over and Groh's work with da Bearsssss.

 

[NateDawg122]

Jackson was pretty good Sam's rookie year. Rushed for 1,241yds and added 383yds receiving.

He also averaged 3.8 YPC and 77.6 rushing YPG with 6 touchdowns.

Last year Gurley only started 12 games, was coming off an ACL, was never 100%, didn't have a QB anywhere near as good as rookie Bradford was, and had an inexperienced and banged up O-line. Yet he still averaged 4.8 YPC, 91.4 YPG, and had 10 touchdowns. I'll take Gurley all day.

 

[jrry32]

You may be right (and I hope you are), and I agree with your last line. I just have battered fan syndrome from years of lacking talent at that position and am at the point where I have to see it to believe. But then again, I did say our WR corps would instantly get better by drafting Goff, so there's hope.

I hope so too. Just worth keeping in mind that here are Britt's per 16 game averages during stretches of his career:
First 2 Years (QBs: Vince Young and Kerry Collins)
48 receptions
843 yards
7 TDs

3rd Year (QB: Matt Hasselbeck)
91 receptions
1541 yards
16 TDs
(Only played 3 games; suffered significant knee injury in 3rd game)

2 Years in St. Louis (QBs: Shaun Hill, Austin Davis, Case Keenum, and Nick Foles)
42 receptions
714 yards
3 TDs

If you look at the QBs that Britt has had, they're terrible. We know Britt has limitations but he also has some pretty major strengths, namely getting vertical. I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that having a legitimately talented starting QB can boost Britt's yardage and TD totals. I think we can all agree that WR numbers are strongly tied to the effectiveness of the QB and passing game.

Plus, while we all have reservations about Austin as a pure WR, there's no denying his ability as a weapon. He put up over 900+ yards from scrimmage last year and 9 offensive TDs on a terrible offense. He, at worst, is an effective weapon and decoy. But with a precision passer like Goff, we might find that Austin is a pretty good WR too.

After that, we have a bunch of unknowns. But they're talented unknowns who were highly productive in college.

I'd still feel better with an Anquan Boldin on this WR corp but I don't see that happening. Looks like the Rams want to give Quick another shot. Can't say that they're wrong too as Quick showed something in 2014. But I have my reservations based on how bad he looked in 2015.

 

[BriansRams]

Better. Goff has a better team around him and a better coaching staff. He might not throw for 3500+ yards depending on how many attempts Fisher gives him but I think he'll post better efficiency numbers.

I think better too, but I think only slightly better in first year.
Now in year 2 he'll blow Bradford's numbers out of the water (because the keep all past statistics in a tub full of water). But in year 2 Goff is gonna throw for 3,000 yards and about 20 TDs, 4 INTS

 

[dieterbrock]

Jackson was pretty good Sam's rookie year. Rushed for 1,241yds and added 383yds receiving.

Yeah.
I think the flaw in this thread is that many are comparing the results of Sam rookie year to the expectations for 2016.
Gurley IS better than SJ now, but heading in to that season SJ was the man and teams stacked the box to stop him
That gave Bradford a huge advantage which was exploited as he was fantastic for the first 10-12 games
Going in to 2010 there were just as many high hopes for that WR core and I think Amendola is better than what we have right now.
Sam had huge advantages heading in to his rookie year that Goff will not have.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Better. Goff has a better team around him and a better coaching staff.

Agree....And Goff is probably better than Sam....

All that said, looking over the comments, Sam threw 55 times in his FIRST NFL game...WOW! doubt Goff will ever attempt that many passes in 2016...But I expect him to be considerably more accurate downfield.
I also think if Schotty had Goff & Gurley, his resume would look considerably better. Better talent makes better coaches.

 

[NateDawg122]

Yeah.
I think the flaw in this thread is that many are comparing the results of Sam rookie year to the expectations for 2016.
Gurley IS better than SJ now, but heading in to that season SJ was the man and teams stacked the box to stop him
That gave Bradford a huge advantage which was exploited as he was fantastic for the first 10-12 games
Going in to 2010 there were just as many high hopes for that WR core and I think Amendola is better than what we have right now.
Sam had huge advantages heading in to his rookie year that Goff will not have.

You don't think opposing teams are going to be stacking the box on Gurley?? Gurley is considered the man now and most of the NFL already believe he is a top 5 RB. Every defense we face knows he is our #1 weapon. This should give Goff an advantage, especially in PA plays.

 

[LesBaker]

Eh, I don't know. Our WRs in 2010 were like 8 games of healthy Clayton/Alexander, a good slot WR in Amendola, ineffective Gibson and Robinson, and a couple TEs who barely belonged on a NFL roster in Bajema and Fells.

It's arguable that Amendola was better than anything we currently have. That'll depend on what Austin and Britt show with a better QB. But I see a much more talented WR corp here now. Britt has the potential to put up 800-1000 yards and 8-10 TDs. We don't know what Austin can be. We just know he's a better weapon than anything on the 2010 Rams. And then we have some young unknowns in Cooper, Higbee, Thomas, Quick, Marquez, and Hemingway.

I'd take our current WR corp over the 2010 version. We have a lot more talent and Britt/Austin are much more talented than Amendola + any other WR on 2010.

The current WR's are for sure better than what was on the roster in 2010.

If Goff has a worse season that Bradford as far as YPA, completion % and TD's I will be nervous going into his second year.

 

[LesBaker]

Can't disagree, but I'll probably remain the biggest critique of what they call OC-ing for the Rams. Boras looked to be calling the same plays, the execution was better.

Shotty was good at scripted plays. He was absolutely god awful at everything else, hence why pretty much the 2nd QTR on always sucked. Get a bead on Shotty, and the game is over.

One thing I'll say about your point regarding PS.........

We saw the video of the Rams showing the same formation last season but running several different plays out of it which confused the defense and set the table for some big plays.

When the Rams lined up with PS as OC that didn't happen. The D knew what was coming A LOT of the time

And when he went to CLE to work for his "mentor" he had play calling duties taken away from him for the same reasons.

He's just not any good.

 

[RamFan503]

Better. Goff has a better team around him and a better coaching staff. He might not throw for 3500+ yards depending on how many attempts Fisher gives him but I think he'll post better efficiency numbers.

What he said. Excepting that I think he will have over 3500 yards as they won't just be handing off to Gurley.

 

[RamFan503]

Our offense last year even with Boras calling plays was horrible. Horrible! I wish I had the rose colored glasses to see it differently. I think people are conflating different things too, I'm not making the argument that Shurmur was a great OC, I'm saying he was heads and tails better than Cig last year and Boras until he proves differently. And as much crap as Schottenheimer rightly got, he was heads and tails better than the offensive game planning we got last year. I'm not arguing that these guys are great, I'm just not letting my Rams homer-ism affect what is legitimately a huge problem for us this year, an o-coordinator who hasn't proven he can game plan well. Boras did not show me anything to think that he will be more than a marginal play-caller and game-planner. I hope you guys are right and I hope I'm wrong.

I'm not gonna take the fact that we had a couple gadget plays that we leaned heavily on mean that we had an imaginative playbook. We had pedestrian routes run by our WR's with no creativity beyond the line of scrimmage.

I suppose we will see. But did anyone expect Boras to come in and install a new offense at the end of the season? What we got was a tighter running of pretty much the same offensive scheme. Tightening it up made for better results - along with better QB play from Keenum.

Forward to this year and we have an O-line that will start the season with the experience of an actual NFL season, a stud RB forcing opponents to stack the box, and a QB that is hands down more accurate with a quicker trigger than what we had in '15.

I don't think Fisher WANTS to have a low output, boring offense. If the move up to grab Austin said anything it said explosive playmakers wanted. And Gurley isn't exactly a 3 yards and a cloud of dust type RB.

I'm not expecting this offense to be Denver under Manning but I do think they are going to try to stretch the field more now that they actually have some pieces to allow for it.

IMO - we no longer have an offense or QB that will make you cover your eyes when the throw goes long.

You don't think opposing teams are going to be stacking the box on Gurley?? Gurley is considered the man now and most of the NFL already believe he is a top 5 RB. Every defense we face knows he is our #1 weapon. This should give Goff an advantage, especially in PA plays.

This is what I'm really hoping for - teams stacking the box while Goff picks them apart with quick accurate passes thus making them put more players in coverage so that Gurley can gash them as the game wears on. It might not make for a lot of 30+ point performances but if Goff is what he is cracked up to be, it will be a recipe for winning football.

 

[dieterbrock]

You don't think opposing teams are going to be stacking the box on Gurley?? Gurley is considered the man now and most of the NFL already believe he is a top 5 RB. Every defense we face knows he is our #1 weapon. This should give Goff an advantage, especially in PA plays.

Not understanding the point
SJ had a pro bowl year in 2009 facing a stacked box and still had 1400 yards and another 300+ receiving
At 27 years old, he was in his prime.
I love Gurley and think he's awesome. But assuming he's just gonna blow those numbers away just doesn't make sense to me
RB is a wash
WR are a wash
OLINE is a wash
Schedule is much tougher for Goff
Fisher is a much better coach than Spags, but his offense is meh

 

[WestCoastRam]

I love me some SJ but the one deficit in his game was a lack of ability to push the pile brought on by his height and poor body lean. Gurely, I think, will be better at that.