If I remember, Gregg Williams's defense was hard for our defense to pickup the first 6 weeks in his first year. I'll give Phillips and the players time to transition, didn't expect it to be smooth, no matter how player friendly his scheme is; especially with the transition to 3-4
Why was the Defense so Bad Tonight?
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Here is a clip with about 12 minutes of highlights. Lots of good stuff!
I told you guys Hoyer isn't a bum, so if you are looking at how poorly the defense fared it's not accurate to say "they stink, see how they made Hoyer look good", Hoyer IS good. He's not going to Canton but he can play. Look what he did when he was with the Browns and Texans, he's not a stiff. Watch his foot work and how he places his passes.
The defense is WAY over pursuing and notice on several of the long runs there is a player crashing into the backfield on the side of the line the play is going AWAY from..........these would be stops for a loss if the play was going to that side. Fluke? Bad defensive call? I don't know.
Also this defense is quick and aggressive, and that makes it susceptible to cutbacks and some of the big gainers have been cutbacks into open space.
And the tackling needs to improve too.
The "new scheme" accounts for some of the issues but not all of them. Wade has some work to do because Dallas has an OL that is a wall and whil Prescott IS a dink and dunk guy he has playmakers who can get plenty of YAC and with the way the Rams secondary tackles this could be messy.
Big test next week. I bet the Dallas DC is already worried.
I think Austin is going to get traded or cut, this is almost certainly his last year as a Ram. As innovative as McVay is Austin has 1 reception on 3 targets for 7 yards and 8 rushes for 33 yards. In the return game it's worse with 7 PR's for 33 yards and 1 KR for 13 yards. Two fumbles on 17 touches. It's not looking good for him right now.
I told you guys Hoyer isn't a bum, so if you are looking at how poorly the defense fared it's not accurate to say "they stink, see how they made Hoyer look good", Hoyer IS good. He's not going to Canton but he can play. Look what he did when he was with the Browns and Texans, he's not a stiff. Watch his foot work and how he places his passes.
The defense is WAY over pursuing and notice on several of the long runs there is a player crashing into the backfield on the side of the line the play is going AWAY from..........these would be stops for a loss if the play was going to that side. Fluke? Bad defensive call? I don't know.
Also this defense is quick and aggressive, and that makes it susceptible to cutbacks and some of the big gainers have been cutbacks into open space.
And the tackling needs to improve too.
The "new scheme" accounts for some of the issues but not all of them. Wade has some work to do because Dallas has an OL that is a wall and whil Prescott IS a dink and dunk guy he has playmakers who can get plenty of YAC and with the way the Rams secondary tackles this could be messy.
Big test next week. I bet the Dallas DC is already worried.
I think Austin is going to get traded or cut, this is almost certainly his last year as a Ram. As innovative as McVay is Austin has 1 reception on 3 targets for 7 yards and 8 rushes for 33 yards. In the return game it's worse with 7 PR's for 33 yards and 1 KR for 13 yards. Two fumbles on 17 touches. It's not looking good for him right now.
I also thought about this, Wade is old as fuck and he likes to move around.
By the time he does though our defense will be established and he'll leave us in a good place.
Look at what the Broncos are doing without him.
There's no shortage of decent 4-3 coaches. Will we snag someone as good as Wade? Probably not.
Will we get someone who can get the job done? Almost definitely.
BonifayRam
Legend
@ this time you were right in questioning MO Alexander before the season started. Mo is far from an enforcer in the secondary. Mo Alexander is far from what TJ McDonald was. Mo will not scare any offensive weapon lurking near him. Mo is one the biggest issues @ this time the other one I will address way down below. How highest paid DB in the NFL Trumaine Johnson was out run & beat by slow damaged slug Garcon was pathetically weak play. I really see no reason to pay Quinn 12.4 million for more of the same weak sorry performances in 2018 best to use that spare change to sign Watkins or make Aaron Donald very happy.
Agree here with you generally. But I centered on the Rams highest salary paid pass rusher who is a ghostly shell of his former self...Rob Quinn not Aaron Donald. Barwin plays the opposite post with Quinn but his game last night was much better than his previous two. Barwin turned it up last night where he had 5 tacks with 1 sack.....now onto the biggest issue on defense IMO.
Last night all Rob Quinn managed to do as our starting weak-side edge rusher is No sacks No Tackles just 1 assisted tack! Not what you would expect from this former All Pro. I would challenge all Ram fans to please re watch the 9er game & tell me if he had any real pressures all night. Rob Quinn's effort last night consisted of running 10 yds straight up the field making little or no attempt to fight inward left through the SINGLE blocker @ LT towards the sitting duck QB. Rob Quinn was easily manhandled & redirected by 1 OL'er all night long. Leaving Donald & Brockers & others to fight thru the double blocks & cut-downs by the RB's.Now Quinn's back up Matt Longacre who plays behind Quinn has 3 solo's & a one sack in the part time role.
If I had Wade's ear I would ask him to look hard @ the Rob Quinn's post & work Longacre & rookie Ebukam more often if this is the best the UNmighty Quinn has in 2017.
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I'm still laughing about this............. :rolllaugh:
You're right, this has been going on since the preseason. I mentioned over pursuing in my other post and didn't think to say that it's been happening from the start. This has to get fixed or the turd named Ezekiel will have a big day.
I hate to say this but that seems to be all Quinn has these days.......his move to bend around the corner. And he gets pushed out of plays too often, it's been happening for a few seasons. If he can out-quick a guy he gets pressure or sometimes a sack, but if the lineman gets two hands squarely on him he is out of the play.
I am really disappointed in Quinn too. I think Longacre outplayed him last night and it seemed like many of the second line guys for the front 7 were often playing better than the starters. Donald and Barron came up huge on that last drive but their play has not been consistent.
After hearing/reading about the early TC impressions of the DEFENSE, I was hopeful that the scheme transition would be pretty seamless with Wade as DC. Now three games into the season it is not looking so seamless and I think the scheme change is definitely part of the problem. My impression (opinion only) is that the guys who were on the field grinding through the preseason games have played better and more consistently than those that did not. The defense has given up too many big plays at times and although I have seen some great individual efforts on plays the flashes of good are offset by bad breakdowns. To me, the inconsistency points to scheme comfort.
BonifayRam
Legend
I might be wrong here Noregar... IMO from all the yrs watching Wade's D's the OLB'ers (Edge Rushers) are the KEY elements or components.... along with a strong enforcer @ SS.....that make his D good & consistent. If these posts are not performing as needed then his D will have major issues. I see Rob Quinn's post as the weak-link here. I would like some feedback from our great members to give me some input on this thought.
I would be considering a change in the amount of time Quinn time on the field & look towards Ebukam, Price & Longacre to get much more time on the field of play. A strong case can be made that Quinn is far from being a feared pass rusher & has fallen off dramatically in skills.
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Thanks for posting... I saw the same things. Just seems like we're losing the battle at the LOS... just get pushed around way too much.
They may not have had their legs and were a little fatigued. The couldn't stop the Whiners turnovers or no turnovers. I won't say the turnovers gave them TDs. Little to no pressure on Hoyer. Quinn could be done and I'm a big fan. Been giving him the benefit of the doubt but, he is not producing. Donald is still settling in. Brookers makes plays. The lack of pass rush hurts a weak secondary. Webster was suppose to step in and solidify the secondary unit but, isn't healthy. That makes it weaker all the way around. TruJo was exposed. The Lbers played better. Barron made some good plays and saved the game. Tree let up the long pass to the fullback but, that was a well designed play. They need a better pass rush for the weakened secondary. Joyner was playing great until the injury. Alexander not so much.
BonifayRam
Legend
Thanks for your feedback Jacobarch
. Naturally I strongly disagree with you here on this matter. Have you had the chance yet to spend some of the time to watched & single in on the performance of Quinn?I did & might be able to do you a play by play of his action last night later if you would like. Quinn's overall body of work thus far is NOT GOOD. Quinn is basically playing the same position he played during his all pro seasons back in 2013 & 2014. Not much of a difference other than he is just about 1 to 2 feet to the right from his normal old 43 "D" spot. His major responsibilities are also very close to the same. Even Quinn said much of the same but he did share some concerns that the front seven are learning a new system.
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Wade Phillips was the DC for the Broncos during the 2015 and 2016 seasons.
2015:
First three games vs. Ravens, Chiefs and Lions his D gave up a combined 49 points. The low points of that season was when his D gave up 29 points against the Chiefs and 34 points against the Steelers.
2016:
First three games vs. Panthers, Colts and Bengals his D gave up a combined 57 points. The low points of that season was when his D gave up 30 points against the Raiders, and a combined 63 points against the Chiefs in two games.
So far the Rams have allowed 75 points.
Hopefully last night's game is an outlier and will be the low point of this season for our defense. If not, then Goff and his teammates will have to continue scoring plenty of points in order to get us to our first winning record in many seasons.
2015:
First three games vs. Ravens, Chiefs and Lions his D gave up a combined 49 points. The low points of that season was when his D gave up 29 points against the Chiefs and 34 points against the Steelers.
2016:
First three games vs. Panthers, Colts and Bengals his D gave up a combined 57 points. The low points of that season was when his D gave up 30 points against the Raiders, and a combined 63 points against the Chiefs in two games.
So far the Rams have allowed 75 points.
Hopefully last night's game is an outlier and will be the low point of this season for our defense. If not, then Goff and his teammates will have to continue scoring plenty of points in order to get us to our first winning record in many seasons.
I was thinking along those lines as well. I remember those games when GW's defense was installed, the first 6 or 7 we couldn't find a sack in a paper bag factory. And then all of the sudden (and at SF no less), the defense started sacking everybody but the QB's third cousin, twice removed.
I hope that's all it is, a scheme adjustment thing ... and hope they can figure it out. That was my worry about going to a 3-4 from a 4-3 that had worked fairly well for a few seasons prior. It being Wades 3-4 made me worry less given his reputation, but these past two games have brought it back with a vengeance.
Not too concern tbh. Short week vs a really good offensive scheme/play caller makes it tough to get a good scheme and practice in to have you fully prepared. Obviously there was some poor performances across the board but I have faith in wade and the defensive talent we have to work it out and get back on track
bluecoconuts
Legend
Their food is so good it almost makes me want to stop to eat there, but I just want to get up north so fast I skip and eat Taco Bell in the car.
Pierre Garcon made some great plays. It's that simple. Rams did everything they could, and forced Brian Hoyer to throw to the outside. And it's not like he put them right where they needed to be. They were literally CEN TIMETERS from being incompletions. Give credit to them, for that.
Plus they had short fields to defend the majority of the night thanks to ST. Whether it be muffed punts, fumbles, or the kickoff going OB, all self inflicted. If STs doesn't turn it over, offense goes out and milks the clock out more, giving the D some rest, and preventing that 5 minute insanity.
Plus, DBs kept getting injured.
On the positive, they did keep Brian Hoyer under pressure a lot of the night, and made some nice stands. But shorts fields really hurt them. It's really hard to ask a defense to stop 4 down series over...and over again.
Plus they had short fields to defend the majority of the night thanks to ST. Whether it be muffed punts, fumbles, or the kickoff going OB, all self inflicted. If STs doesn't turn it over, offense goes out and milks the clock out more, giving the D some rest, and preventing that 5 minute insanity.
Plus, DBs kept getting injured.
On the positive, they did keep Brian Hoyer under pressure a lot of the night, and made some nice stands. But shorts fields really hurt them. It's really hard to ask a defense to stop 4 down series over...and over again.
I'm a little concerned - I was hoping the D would be great from week 1, but the stuff about new scheme, accommodating Donald after week 1 and injuries to DBs is all valid IMHO. I was also expecting the whiners' offence to suck, but I agree that Hoyer isn't terrible, and Shanahan was the hot property OC after what he did with Atlanta, so it wouldn't surprise me now if their O isn't actually a lot better than we thought based on 0 TDs going into the game last night. There was a stat on last night's game as to how many new players and rookies SF have on their team this year. New HC, new OC, new players, lots of rookies: a slow start for them would be understandable. I'm optimistic that our O is the real deal (even after Ds start paying attention to our film and making adjustments) and that our D will come around.
WestCoastRam
Legend
I'm almost ready to write Quinn off but not quite yet... he barely practiced during the TC/preseason and there's a lot of nuances to his role that he needs to learn such as setting the edge.
As far as the defense in general, I think it will take one or two more games for Donald to find a rhythm and Quinn to find more nuance, Barron to get his fits right (he was out most of TC/preseason too), and Ogletree... hmmm, I don't have an answer for Ogletree.
As far as the defense in general, I think it will take one or two more games for Donald to find a rhythm and Quinn to find more nuance, Barron to get his fits right (he was out most of TC/preseason too), and Ogletree... hmmm, I don't have an answer for Ogletree.
Snisher sent the No. 16, No. 46, No. 78 and No. 222 pick to the Buffalo Bills in exchange for Tavon Austin.