Why Not Use 1st Rounder On WR Jack Bech

[Memphis Ram]

Safer pick in the first? Absolutely there are. I'd put 4 or 5 WR as safer and better picks in the first, three TE and about 6 CB all better and safer 1st round picks. Beck would be a good pick in the third or fourth round.

Also everybody thought Gibbs was a first round pick, some just don't want their teams picking an RB in the first no matter how good.

Maybe I could too if my assumptions are correct regarding the players that you are considering and I disregard that some of the players on your list haven't played since an injury.

I took a lot of heat on this board for wanting Gibbs in the 2nd round. But, Yes, Gibbs was viewed as a 1st round pick via draftnik media. A late 1st round pick. Even he was shocked he was selected so high.

At the bottom of the 1st round, chances are that you have a hodge-podge group of players with similar grades. I would hate for anyone in the Rams draft room to pass on a guy believing that he is a 2nd round talent if they don't have 32 1st round grades and the 2nd round is a mere 7 picks away.

 

[jrry32]

Why Harold Fannin over Bech?

And you mentioned earlier that you didn't see him as a 1st rounder, but do you have 32 1st round grades in this draft class?

I think he's a better athlete. Both guys block well. Both guys play with a lot of physicality. Both guys look natural catching the football. Fannin is bigger. Bech is more polished. I think Fannin has the potential to be a bigger mismatch.

I don't have time to evaluate everybody in the draft. So that's not really how I do things. I don't have an entire scouting department at my disposal like the Rams.

 

[OldSchool]

Maybe I could too if my assumptions are correct regarding the players that you are considering and I disregard that some of the players on your list haven't played since an injury.

Irrelevant and doesn't make Bech a better 1st round pick than them.

I took a lot of heat on this board for wanting Gibbs in the 2nd round. But, Yes, Gibbs was viewed as a 1st round pick via draftnik media. A late 1st round pick. Even he was shocked he was selected so high.

There were a lot of people very vocal about wanting him in the 1st round here. Not sure where when or why you took heat for wanting him in the 2nd. I'm pretty sure everybody here thought he was a 1st round pick and one of if not the best RB in that draft class. Just the majority didn't want us to take him in the 1st.

At the bottom of the 1st round, chances are that you have a hodge-podge group of players with similar grades. I would hate for anyone in the Rams draft room to pass on a guy believing that he is a 2nd round talent if they don't have 32 1st round grades and the 2nd round is a mere 7 picks away.

1st round and 2nd round grades mean nothing and vary from one media draftnik to another. I don't get the hang up on this honestly. So then the question is if they only have say 10 1st round grades how many 2nd round grades do they have? What round grade are they giving Bech that you want him in the 1st? According to this site he's sat between 100 and say 130 for 2 months now as an aggregate collection on the "experts" ranking him. So these people that only have a dozen or whatever 1st round grades put a late 3rd early 4th round grade on him. Going off this info yeah he would be a terrible 1st round pick. Again I say that feeling he will be a good pro and make some fan base happy. Just doubt they're happy if they draft him in the 1st round.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I think he's a better athlete. Both guys block well. Both guys play with a lot of physicality. Both guys look natural catching the football. Fannin is bigger. Bech is more polished. I think Fannin has the potential to be a bigger mismatch.

I don't have time to evaluate everybody in the draft. So that's not really how I do things. I don't have an entire scouting department at my disposal like the Rams.

Let's say that I agree with you. He also plays a position considered to be one of the deepest we've seen at the position in years.

Does or should that factor in the decision?

 

[Memphis Ram]

Irrelevant and doesn't make Bech a better 1st round pick than them.

Disagree. Injuries and how a player returns from one has to be a factor. They don't all come back the same guy.

There were a lot of people very vocal about wanting him in the 1st round here. Not sure where when or why you took heat for wanting him in the 2nd. I'm pretty sure everybody here thought he was a 1st round pick and one of if not the best RB in that draft class. Just the majority didn't want us to take him in the 1st.

Don't see how that is possible as the Rams didn't have a 1st round pick that year.

1st round and 2nd round grades mean nothing and vary from one media draftnik to another. I don't get the hang up on this honestly. So then the question is if they only have say 10 1st round grades how many 2nd round grades do they have? What round grade are they giving Bech that you want him in the 1st? According to this site he's sat between 100 and say 130 for 2 months now as an aggregate collection on the "experts" ranking him. So these people that only have a dozen or whatever 1st round grades put a late 3rd early 4th round grade on him. Going off this info yeah he would be a terrible 1st round pick. Again I say that feeling he will be a good pro and make some fan base happy. Just doubt they're happy if they draft him in the 1st round.

I have no idea of the Rams draft grade. But, from what I understand, teams typically have a certain number of 1st round grades and then the next 30-60 players are rated pretty evenly.

Draftnik grades can shift drastically throughout the pre-draft process as more information is gathered.

 

[OldSchool]

Don't see how that is possible as the Rams didn't have a 1st round pick that year.

Trade up he's a game changer go back and look if you want. Arguing that Gibbs was a 1st round pick so Bech could be as well just blows my mind I don't get the logic.

I have no idea of the Rams draft grade. But, from what I understand, teams typically have a certain number of 1st round grades and then the next 30-60 players are rated pretty evenly.

Draftnik grades can shift drastically throughout the pre-draft process as more information is gathered.

Again I'm not sure why you're so fascinated with this thought or comment that a draftnik only has 12 or 14 or whatever it was 1st round grades. What does it matter and how does it change the fact that most of these same draftniks have a 4th round grade on Bech. And even more so how those two things make him a viable first round pick. Again this leap in logic is wild.

Disagree. Injuries and how a player returns from one has to be a factor. They don't all come back the same guy.

Again irrelevant to a players ability and the grade he's given. Also irrelevant to the discussion of Bech being a 1st round pick.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Trade up he's a game changer go back and look if you want. Arguing that Gibbs was a 1st round pick so Bech could be as well just blows my mind I don't get the logic.

Again I'm not sure why you're so fascinated with this thought or comment that a draftnik only has 12 or 14 or whatever it was 1st round grades. What does it matter and how does it change the fact that most of these same draftniks have a 4th round grade on Bech. And even more so how those two things make him a viable first round pick. Again this leap in logic is wild.

Again irrelevant to a players ability and the grade he's given. Also irrelevant to the discussion of Bech being a 1st round pick.

It appears that you've completely missed my point.

GIbbs was just one example of the point being made. That point being that players are not locked into grades solely by rounds but by number. Each draft class is different. Some draft classes are going to have more players considered to be "1st round type talents" than others. The next tier are considered let's say "2nd round talents" and that tier usually has a much higher number of players.

As far as your draftnik grades, this is early February. Surely you've seen the stock of players with a lower initial draft ranking skyrocket by the time the end of April arrives. You'll notice some jumps post Senior Bowl, but the first big jump occurs after the combine. Cowboys OLineman Tyler Smith was hardly mentioned as a 1st round talent early, but by the time the end of April came along and more information was received...voila, you started seeing him in the 1st round of mock drafts.

In the end, if Bech is not a 1st round pick, give me 32 players who are 1st round picks in this draft class. If you are being honest with yourself, you can't. So does the round end and the next round begin after the so-called 1st round talents are all taken?

 

[OldSchool]

It appears that you've completely missed my point.

GIbbs was just one example of the point being made. That point being that players are not locked into grades solely by rounds but by number. Each draft class is different. Some draft classes are going to have more players considered to be "1st round type talents" than others. The next tier are considered let's say "2nd round talents" and that tier usually has a much higher number of players.

As far as your draftnik grades, this is early February. Surely you've seen the stock of players with a lower initial draft ranking skyrocket by the time the end of April arrives. You'll notice some jumps post Senior Bowl, but the first big jump occurs after the combine. Cowboys OLineman Tyler Smith was hardly mentioned as a 1st round talent early, but by the time the end of April came along and more information was received...voila, you started seeing him in the 1st round of mock drafts.

In the end, if Bech is not a 1st round pick, give me 32 players who are 1st round picks in this draft class. If you are being honest with yourself, you can't. So does the round end and the next round begin after the so-called 1st round talents are all taken?

I can think of 80 players I'd take in the first over Bech, he's a 4th round pick.

What I fail to understand is how you're equating some people saying there are only 12 players with 1st round grades. Yet you think Bech can be a 1st round pick when those same people say he's a 4th round pick. I don't see the logic to bridge that gap. Yes players rise and fall every draft everyone knows this it's not some huge revelation.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Listening to the draftnik media there will probably only be 12-15 players in this draft class with 1st round grades and the next group of guys could come off the board at any time afterwards.

People thought the Lions were nuts for spending the 12th overall selection on Jahmyr Gibbs.

If the 2023 draft were re-drafted both Kobie Turner and Puka Nacua would be 1st round choices. We would have complained on draft day but would anyone complain now?

NFL GMs have stated the difficulty in selecting players at the bottom of the 1st round. Maybe I'm wrong, but is there a safer selection for the Rams to make than Bech?

It seems that the Rams had fewer than fifteen with first round grades last year. I imagine it will be less than that this year.

We don’t know which of the top ten they really liked, but they did like Bowers, Murphy and Verse. Do they may have had as few as 13 with first round grades in a pretty deep round one.

Maybe I could too if my assumptions are correct regarding the players that you are considering and I disregard that some of the players on your list haven't played since an injury.

I took a lot of heat on this board for wanting Gibbs in the 2nd round. But, Yes, Gibbs was viewed as a 1st round pick via draftnik media. A late 1st round pick. Even he was shocked he was selected so high.

At the bottom of the 1st round, chances are that you have a hodge-podge group of players with similar grades. I would hate for anyone in the Rams draft room to pass on a guy believing that he is a 2nd round talent if they don't have 32 1st round grades and the 2nd round is a mere 7 picks away.

I think a lot of Bech getting picked by the Rams early will depend on how fast he runs. If he’s a slower slot like Kupp I’d think he goes late second or third. If he’s runs a 4.4 he may go round one. Snead seems to have a good grasp on likely draft positions in most recent years.

 

[jrry32]

Let's say that I agree with you. He also plays a position considered to be one of the deepest we've seen at the position in years.

Does or should that factor in the decision?

Personally, no. If we're trying to maximize value, Bech and Fannin play the same role in this offense. So I'm not seeing where that's a significant distinction here. Could they co-exist? Sure. Bech can play outside if needed. But Bech is at his best as a WR/TE hybrid in our scheme, like the role Kupp played. That's also the role I'd use Fannin in. If both guys are suited for that same role, why should I care that one is called a WR and the other a TE?

Hell, as you said in another thread, double up on the TE position, and grab an inline TE to pair with Fannin.

 

[8to12]

Isn’t he just more of what we already have?

IF he ends up being the highest rated WR in PFF, like Puka, then why not?

 

[8to12]

Listening to the draftnik media there will probably only be 12-15 players in this draft class with 1st round grades and the next group of guys could come off the board at any time afterwards.

People thought the Lions were nuts for spending the 12th overall selection on Jahmyr Gibbs.

If the 2023 draft were re-drafted both Kobie Turner and Puka Nacua would be 1st round choices. We would have complained on draft day but would anyone complain now?

NFL GMs have stated the difficulty in selecting players at the bottom of the 1st round. Maybe I'm wrong, but is there a safer selection for the Rams to make than Bech?

I agree. And, I think people don't realize how good of an overall player Nacua is. Looking at the WR rankings from PFF, he's #1.
How proficient would the Rams offense be if 2 of your 3 WR's were top 10 ?

 

[Memphis Ram]

I can think of 80 players I'd take in the first over Bech, he's a 4th round pick.

What I fail to understand is how you're equating some people saying there are only 12 players with 1st round grades. Yet you think Bech can be a 1st round pick when those same people say he's a 4th round pick. I don't see the logic to bridge that gap. Yes players rise and fall every draft everyone knows this it's not some huge revelation.

No. No. No.

I just threw out the 12 -14 number from draftniks that I heard who actually have sources around the league (for example check out former NFL Scout Bryan Broaddaus when you get a chance). Not Joe Blow with a fan site who came up with a mock draft.

So who are these same people did you think I was referring to? Prior to this post I had not given one name.

Anyway, as long as I've been a draftnik I have NEVER heard of a draft so deep where it was said pre-draft or post draft that teams had 30-32 players (also called blue-chip) with 1st round grades. The next group of player (red-chips) are typically much larger in number and can come off the board at anytime where most in the know wouldn't bat an eye.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Personally, no. If we're trying to maximize value, Bech and Fannin play the same role in this offense. So I'm not seeing where that's a significant distinction here. Could they co-exist? Sure. Bech can play outside if needed. But Bech is at his best as a WR/TE hybrid in our scheme, like the role Kupp played. That's also the role I'd use Fannin in. If both guys are suited for that same role, why should I care that one is called a WR and the other a TE?

Hell, as you said in another thread, double up on the TE position, and grab an inline TE to pair with Fannin.

I guess we see them differently.

I see Bech with the ability to play outside and beat NFL CBs like Nacua and with those two being interchangeable lining up all over the formation being a boon.

Fannin? I question his ability to beat NFL CBs given his change of direction.

 

[RamFan503]

IF he ends up being the highest rated WR in PFF, like Puka, then why not?

I'm not a PFF guy. But to answer your question, I think we need someone who can take the top off a defense and stretch the field a bit more. Bech doesn't seem to be that player. I think McVay is also hinting about the fact that we don't have enough variation in our offense. To me, that translates to him saying that we don't have any real game breakers to open up the offense. We need more big play ability.

 

[jrry32]

I guess we see them differently.

I see Bech with the ability to play outside and beat NFL CBs like Nacua and with those two being interchangeable lining up all over the formation being a boon.

Fannin? I question his ability to beat NFL CBs given his change of direction.

I didn't see much separation from Bech on vertical routes.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I didn't see much separation from Bech on vertical routes.

I see a little but most importantly I believe that this kid has that dawg in him to where if the ball goes up in his direction, he's coming down with it.

If the team feels the need to get a legit speedster that's fine, too. They need more than one WR. After Kupp is dealt or released Nacua and Whittington are the only other WRs under contract from what I understand.

 

[jrry32]

I see a little but most importantly I believe that this kid has that dawg in him to where if the ball goes up in his direction, he's coming down with it.

If the team feels the need to get a legit speedster that's fine, too. They need more than one WR. After Kupp is dealt or released Nacua and Whittington are the only other WRs under contract from what I understand.

I like his game, but it's a lot easier to be that guy in college than the NFL. I'll be happy if Bech is a Ram in a few months. But if we're taking him with our first pick, I'd rather risk a trade down into the 2nd. Of course, this is all dependent on the Combine. If he goes out and tests well, he'll move up the board. If he doesn't run well, I expect he'll end up a 3rd round pick. And personally, I think he'll run in the 4.55 to 4.65 range.

 

[DzRams]

I like his game, but it's a lot easier to be that guy in college than the NFL. I'll be happy if Bech is a Ram in a few months. But if we're taking him with our first pick, I'd rather risk a trade down into the 2nd. Of course, this is all dependent on the Combine. If he goes out and tests well, he'll move up the board. If he doesn't run well, I expect he'll end up a 3rd round pick. And personally, I think he'll run in the 4.55 to 4.65 range.

Basically Kupp.

 

[jrry32]

Basically Kupp.

In terms of 40, yes. I wouldn't make the player comparison, though. Bech's playing style is more akin to Anquan Boldin than Kupp. Kupp was quicker and more polished. While his strength and physicality helped him after the catch, Kupp's game was more predicated on elusiveness, contact balance, and slipperiness. Bech runs like a power HB after the catch, and he's extremely physical when running his routes.