Why is Stedman Bailey Getting No Playing Time?

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snackdaddy

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through 3 weeks, this is how the offensive snaps go:

Britt - 130 (80% of offensive snaps)
Austin - 129 (79.6%)
Bailey - 79 (48.8%)
Givens - 49 (30.2%)

rest - 0

i'd say he's gotten some opportunities, just they're not doing anything with it...whether its the line, foles, or bailey himself

I ain't smart enough to know what the problem is. Not enough targets. Not enough separation. QB can't see when he's open. Those are the more common problems for receivers. Maybe all of the above. I don't know. But there does seem to be one re-occuring theme, I hear announcers say the QB couldn't find anyone open. Thats a problem that has plagued them during the Bradford era too.

Its possible that Bailey just doesn't have the wheels to separate. I hear he runs routes well enough. I know he has good hands. But he doesn't have the size of Quick or Britt and he doesn't have the speed of Austin. He could be that proverbial classic tweener.
 

CoachO

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Its possible that Bailey just doesn't have the wheels to separate. I hear he runs routes well enough. I know he has good hands. But he doesn't have the size of Quick or Britt and he doesn't have the speed of Austin. He could be that proverbial classic tweener.

I think you just nailed it. No argument his hands are the most consistent among the WRs. But those who continue to say he isn't getting on the field seem to be mistaking lack of snaps for lack of production.

At some point, when do we stop making excuses for some of these players? "They aren't using Austin correctly". "Bailey needs to play more". This has been the common theme among many for the past 2+ seasons.

Now four different QBs later, the same things are being said. Maybe, just maybe it's on the receivers. Austin is not a polished WR. He's a gadget type playmaker that they now seem determined to force the offense through. But when his limited production comes from having the ball handed off, it tells me he still isn't there as a WR.

Bailey gets plenty of snaps. What he doesn't get is targets. Again, this has been through four different QB somehow not throwing him the ball on any consistent basis.

I am not in any way trying to compare the systems here, but merely comparing the roles these guys need to perform to be successful. Consider Britt and Quick in the same roles as Bruce and Holt. The primary outside receivers who play all three downs. Austin fits the Az-Hakim role with Bailey being Ricky Proehl. It takes all four of them to be performing for ANY any of them to be able to be their best. When the GSOT lost Hakim, then Proehl wasn't as productive.

Bailey should be that goto guy on 3rd down. But if he is the only guy that teams fear in that scenario, he will be limited. Austin feeds off the other three. But to try to force the ball to him, just won't work. He is too inconsistent as a route runner.

The play that sums it up for me occurred last week vs. Pittsburgh. It was a 3rd & 6 I believe and they ran Austin on the "arrow" route that Amendola mastered here. The problem is, instead of driving straight thru the CB, forcing him to react to the route, Austin cut it off after 3 yards, made his move inside before cutting back outside. The CB just let him run the route and then closed on him once he caught the ball. He was bought down after a 3 yard gain and we punted.

Bailey, doesn't have the quickness to even run that route. So there in lies the problem with both.

Let's see if getting Quick back has an impact on the overall success of the rest of the group. Theoretically, if Britt and Quick both can post some level of consistency, then Bailey and Austin should get more room.
 

12intheBox

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I think that's a part of it but not all of it. Even when we had decent drives last year, Bailey wasn't getting much time when he looked better than most of the other WRs we had. It was a different OC but we're seeing about the same usage.

The offense for the Rams, no matter who's at QB, WR, or OC, feels like it's being held back. Considering his history, I get the feeling Fisher is the one holding the reigns. Maybe I'm wrong but something is off with this offense. Many of our offensive players IMO should be performing better than they are.

The only way that Fisher holds the reigns is that he may dictate a more ground based offense. He wants a conservative, safe offense that isn't likely to turn the ball over - or so I hear.

Bailey is either the 3 or the 4 WR on this team. So 3, 4 and certainly 5 WR sets aren't being used as much as they are in other offenses.
 

snackdaddy

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Let's see if getting Quick back has an impact on the overall success of the rest of the group. Theoretically, if Britt and Quick both can post some level of consistency, then Bailey and Austin should get more room.

I think part of the problem, maybe even a big part, is that we don't have anyone on offense who has consistently showed production. Quick had a nice 7 game stretch but that is not a big enough sample size to me. Britt has shown flashes but hasn't been consistent his whole career. Same for Austin. Bailey seems to be spinning his wheels.

Other teams in our division have receivers and other positions who have shown consistent production. Consistent enough to hang your hat on it. Fitzgerald, Boldin, Graham. Lynch is a proven producer as a running back. Chris Johnson too. There are proven QB's like Palmer and Wilson. Heck, even Kapernick took his team to a superbowl.

Contrast that with the players we have on offense. I can't name one consistent producer. Maybe the RB's get a pass because one is a rookie and the others are in their second year. They may need more time. But the receivers and TE's are in their 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons, or more. At some point you gotta wonder if its ever gonna happen for them. Its no wonder we have such a bad offense.

Can't blame Fisher and Snead for not trying. They moved up for Austin and drafted Quick so high he was almost a first rounder. And they drafted a LT and RB high in the first round. And loaded up on linemen in the last draft. Why these players aren't working out so far is beyond me. Did they do a poor job of evaluating? Or a poor job of coaching? Is it because we're still rebuilding? If so, how many coaches get to be in the losing phase of rebuilding for 4 or 5 years?
 

Oldgeek

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I think there must be some practice field supestars that fail to show up on game day. Bailey looked better on routes last year than Givens or Tavon. I guess with the two TE sets, it limits the chances for the WR. . I'm not sure the Rams has a quick hit slant route in the playbook anymore that use to keep drives alive.
 

RamDino

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Great thread. Some very good thoughts on the lack of productivity out our entire offense, not just Stedman Bailey. I think we just need that one "stud" who makes other players around him play better. For example, Tom Brady would make all of our receivers look like all-stars. He will get them the football. That's not a knock on Foles, but also Quick, Britt, Mason, Austin, Gurley, and, so far, everyone else on the Rams offense. No one is making any plays consistently, but I firmly believe we are only one all-star away. I just wish someone, anyone, would step up and be that guy!
 

rams56

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I think part of the problem, maybe even a big part, is that we don't have anyone on offense who has consistently showed production. Quick had a nice 7 game stretch but that is not a big enough sample size to me. Britt has shown flashes but hasn't been consistent his whole career. Same for Austin. Bailey seems to be spinning his wheels.

Other teams in our division have receivers and other positions who have shown consistent production. Consistent enough to hang your hat on it. Fitzgerald, Boldin, Graham. Lynch is a proven producer as a running back. Chris Johnson too. There are proven QB's like Palmer and Wilson. Heck, even Kapernick took his team to a superbowl.

Contrast that with the players we have on offense. I can't name one consistent producer. Maybe the RB's get a pass because one is a rookie and the others are in their second year. They may need more time. But the receivers and TE's are in their 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons, or more. At some point you gotta wonder if its ever gonna happen for them. Its no wonder we have such a bad offense.

Can't blame Fisher and Snead for not trying. They moved up for Austin and drafted Quick so high he was almost a first rounder. And they drafted a LT and RB high in the first round. And loaded up on linemen in the last draft. Why these players aren't working out so far is beyond me. Did they do a poor job of evaluating? Or a poor job of coaching? Is it because we're still rebuilding? If so, how many coaches get to be in the losing phase of rebuilding for 4 or 5 years?

I think if we are 16 games into the season or even 8 and are close to elimination and our offense still has all these same problems...... then maybe it's time for all this over evaluation. ...but as far as I am concerned. ...it's only 3 games in and I believe we will work most if not all this stuff out. We definitely have the talent to be playing at Arizona's level if not higher.....but again we are only 3 games in and no team I mean no team knows what they're team identity will be later in the season. No body. ;)

Go Rams........... ;)
 

iced

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I think you just nailed it. No argument his hands are the most consistent among the WRs. But those who continue to say he isn't getting on the field seem to be mistaking lack of snaps for lack of production.

At some point, when do we stop making excuses for some of these players? "They aren't using Austin correctly". "Bailey needs to play more". This has been the common theme among many for the past 2+ seasons.

Now four different QBs later, the same things are being said. Maybe, just maybe it's on the receivers. Austin is not a polished WR. He's a gadget type playmaker that they now seem determined to force the offense through. But when his limited production comes from having the ball handed off, it tells me he still isn't there as a WR.

Bailey gets plenty of snaps. What he doesn't get is targets. Again, this has been through four different QB somehow not throwing him the ball on any consistent basis.

I am not in any way trying to compare the systems here, but merely comparing the roles these guys need to perform to be successful. Consider Britt and Quick in the same roles as Bruce and Holt. The primary outside receivers who play all three downs. Austin fits the Az-Hakim role with Bailey being Ricky Proehl. It takes all four of them to be performing for ANY any of them to be able to be their best. When the GSOT lost Hakim, then Proehl wasn't as productive.

Bailey should be that goto guy on 3rd down. But if he is the only guy that teams fear in that scenario, he will be limited. Austin feeds off the other three. But to try to force the ball to him, just won't work. He is too inconsistent as a route runner.

The play that sums it up for me occurred last week vs. Pittsburgh. It was a 3rd & 6 I believe and they ran Austin on the "arrow" route that Amendola mastered here. The problem is, instead of driving straight thru the CB, forcing him to react to the route, Austin cut it off after 3 yards, made his move inside before cutting back outside. The CB just let him run the route and then closed on him once he caught the ball. He was bought down after a 3 yard gain and we punted.

Bailey, doesn't have the quickness to even run that route. So there in lies the problem with both.

Let's see if getting Quick back has an impact on the overall success of the rest of the group. Theoretically, if Britt and Quick both can post some level of consistency, then Bailey and Austin should get more room.

totally agree - and why I continue to not be impressed enough with this receiving corps... first it was the QBs, then it was the line...

at some point, these players have to hold themselves accountable... and with the corners in this division, we need a stud outwide that is a threat, not just someone who might need to be accounted for. Clearly we're not getting production on offense at any position - whether its drops, inability to separate, inability to block (pass and run), and the QB himself. I get Foles "needs time" to adjust and its a new offense - but we're talking about the same problems that have been consistently occurring for years when it comes to the receivers.

Not surprising though considering Fisher and his pedigree when it comes to the offense - this is one reason why if he's let go this off season i won't be upset in the slightest... thank you for building the defense, but what they've tried to do on offense hasn't and just isn't working.
 

CoachO

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I think part of the problem, maybe even a big part, is that we don't have anyone on offense who has consistently showed production. Quick had a nice 7 game stretch but that is not a big enough sample size to me. Britt has shown flashes but hasn't been consistent his whole career. Same for Austin. Bailey seems to be spinning his wheels.

Other teams in our division have receivers and other positions who have shown consistent production. Consistent enough to hang your hat on it. Fitzgerald, Boldin, Graham. Lynch is a proven producer as a running back. Chris Johnson too. There are proven QB's like Palmer and Wilson. Heck, even Kapernick took his team to a superbowl.

Contrast that with the players we have on offense. I can't name one consistent producer. Maybe the RB's get a pass because one is a rookie and the others are in their second year. They may need more time. But the receivers and TE's are in their 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons, or more. At some point you gotta wonder if its ever gonna happen for them. Its no wonder we have such a bad offense.

Can't blame Fisher and Snead for not trying. They moved up for Austin and drafted Quick so high he was almost a first rounder. And they drafted a LT and RB high in the first round. And loaded up on linemen in the last draft. Why these players aren't working out so far is beyond me. Did they do a poor job of evaluating? Or a poor job of coaching? Is it because we're still rebuilding? If so, how many coaches get to be in the losing phase of rebuilding for 4 or 5 years?
I don't disagree with this. But the one thing you are avoiding to mention. The lack of consistency has to start with the QB position. That, IMO, has more to do with the slow development of just about every player you mentioned.

These guys have had backup caliber QBs pulling the trigger for the better part of their time here. Clemens, Davis and Hill were as much to "blame" for the inconsistent passing game as any receiver on the roster in that time.

How many time last year alone would Britt or Quick be behind the secondary, on,y to have Davis under throw them? How many times did Brian Quick run the deep dig route uncovered on,y to have Clemens not even look at him because he knew he couldn't throw that pass? How many times has Bailey run a crossing route to have the ball checked down to a RB because they didn't have the time to let the route develop?

You said that they are in their 4th and 5th year..... It's actually interesting to me, that Brian Quick is the longest tenured Ram WR being in his 4th season. And that is after losing most of last year, when he finall was showing he belonged on the field.
 

snackdaddy

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I don't disagree with this. But the one thing you are avoiding to mention. The lack of consistency has to start with the QB position. That, IMO, has more to do with the slow development of just about every player you mentioned.

These guys have had backup caliber QBs pulling the trigger for the better part of their time here. Clemens, Davis and Hill were as much to "blame" for the inconsistent passing game as any receiver on the roster in that time.

How many time last year alone would Britt or Quick be behind the secondary, on,y to have Davis under throw them? How many times did Brian Quick run the deep dig route uncovered on,y to have Clemens not even look at him because he knew he couldn't throw that pass? How many times has Bailey run a crossing route to have the ball checked down to a RB because they didn't have the time to let the route develop?

You said that they are in their 4th and 5th year..... It's actually interesting to me, that Brian Quick is the longest tenured Ram WR being in his 4th season. And that is after losing most of last year, when he finall was showing he belonged on the field.

Yeah, I know the QB play has been bad too. Britt woulda had several more TD's if he had someone who could get him the ball. I remember a deep play Hill connected with him in the Denver game. It was a nice gain but Britt had to slow down and wait for the ball allowing the defender to make the tackle. A deeper ball woulda been an easy touchdown. And I believe they settled for a FG on that one. I also remember Davis under throwing so badly in the 49er game to a wide open Britt, it was intercepted.

Now we have Foles. And the jury is still out on him. So far it ain't looking too good. But at least underthrows won't be as much an issue. But accuracy might be.
 

LACHAMP46

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A couple of people have already expressed my thoughts... Why, probably not good enough or better than the wrs in front of him...

And if he doesn't get better, I see him going the way of Pead/Pettis, more than Givens....
 

RaminExile

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On a team without a lot of strength at the WR position he is not playing. There is a reason and it has been discussed. If he were an upgrade he would be on the field.
I am not a Bailey basher and would like to see him make some plays but right now our staff believes that SB is a situational contributor not a guy to get a lot of snaps.

He is an upgrade - when he's on the field he outperforms others. Fair enough the coaching staff disagrees and they're more knowledgeable than me (I hope) but I disagree with them if that's what they think.
 

RamzFanz

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Bailey's starting to remind me of the Bulger QB carousal. Where our backups would flash a little something and that'd get everyone convinced they were something special and we were screaming constantly to sit Bulger so they'd come in and 'blow it away' or 'give us a change.'

Bailey has been good since day one. When he played in TA's spot, he didn't miss a beat. Dude is clutch.

Bailey isn't ever going to be mistaken for a number 1. But as a 3, he's awesome.
 

RamDino

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If you're going to blame the quarterback, you also have to blame the line, and on and on it goes. Someone has to step up. If Terrell Owens was on this team screaming "just give me the damn ball"... he would get the ball. And he would make plays. Who is going to be our playmaker? I believe we all have a ton of confidence in our guys. Maybe it's Fisher's "system". I don't disagree with a conservative offensive philosophy but something is stifling our players. Stedman Bailey is a good example... he seems to be a very talented receiver... why isn't he producing more? John Madden used to say that great players made great plays. We don't have anyone on offense making great plays.
 

CGI_Ram

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We've seen Bailey make great catches, he's got great hands... But, the coaches aren't fools. If he was one of our best WR's, he'd get more snaps. Simple.

Bailey doesn't have elite speed, and while he does run good routes, he's not able to separate the way Isaac Bruce could with his routes.

I still like him, but he's a situational guy. Like Proehl. Nothing wrong with that.
 

V3

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The only way that Fisher holds the reigns is that he may dictate a more ground based offense. He wants a conservative, safe offense that isn't likely to turn the ball over - or so I hear.

Bailey is either the 3 or the 4 WR on this team. So 3, 4 and certainly 5 WR sets aren't being used as much as they are in other offenses.
More ground game and less medium and long passes is what I'd guess. We'll never know for sure but we do have Fisher's past to look at. He's rarely had good offenses. Could be complete coincidence but there's a lot of data from which to draw.
 

SaneRamsFan

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Kurt Warner was all world in StLouis with Bruce, Holt, and a great receiving back Marshall Faulk. He was terrible in NY. He was all world again in Phoenix with Fitz and Anquon Bolden. I see a pattern.
 

blue4

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I believe we slightly overrate our WR corps. Bailey is an average 3rd or 4th WR. That's not a bad thing, it's just I don't think we can expect a whole lot of difference in the passing game if he suddenly became the starter. IMO only Quick has the talent to make a real difference.
 

Amitar

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Thanks Coach O. You answered my question.