Why don't our guys use Mike Martz?

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

Prime Time

PT
Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
20,922
Name
Peter
Looking back over Mike Martz's career, wherever he was, good things followed for the QBs and WRs. Why don't our players use that? I don't mean why don't the Rams hire Martz. Personally, I don't think Martz wants to work as an assistant coach (below OC) at this point in his career.

However, during the off-season, why don't our players hire Martz as a coach to work with them? Let's look back at the highlights of Martz's career:
1995 - Rams QB Coach: Developed Chris Chandler from a bust to a solid starting QB
Chandlers first 6 years in the NFL (prior to Martz): 39 starts, 54.9% completion percentage, 34 TDs to 48 Ints, and a 66.1 QB Rating
Chandler's next 8 years in the NFL (with and after Martz): 98 starts, 59.4% completion percentage, 127 TDs to 79 Ints, and a 86.9 QB Rating

1996 to 1997 - Rams WR Coach: Developed Isaac Bruce into a HOF WR
Bruce produced 203 catches, 3119 yards, and 20 TDs across those two years after putting just under 300 yards and 3 TDs as a rookie

1997 to 1998 - Redskins QB Coach: Developed QB Trent Green from an 8th round pick with no starts before his 28th birthday into a solid starting QB

1999 to 2006 - Rams OC/HC: There are a long list of guys he developed for us. But the fact is that he developed Kurt Warner (UDFA), Trent Green (8th round pick), and Marc Bulger (6th round pick) into Pro Bowl QBs. He also found Ryan Fitzpatrick in the 7th round.

Add it all together, Mike Martz developed Chandler, Warner, Green, and Bulger all into Pro Bowl QBs. Chandler was the highest drafted of the four. He was a 3rd round pick. He was also a total bust prior to Martz.

Why are our guys not using him as a resource? Our organization should strongly suggest to Goff that he work with Mike Martz over the off-season. The guy might be the greatest QB evaluator and developer in NFL history.

I also would have recommended it to our young WRs like Tavon years ago.

Might also want to throw in Jon Kitna who threw for over 4,000 yds in both seasons while Martz was the Lions OC and QB coach. Kitna was a pretty good QB while with the Bengals but Martz took him to new heights in Detroit of all places.
 

Dieter the Brock

Fourth responder
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
8,196
This thread needs some brown!
For all us Mexican-Americans,
* and yeah the only two Mexican-American coaches in NFL history have both gone to the Super Bowl :LOL:

Tom Flores pic.jpg
riveraheadsetnote.jpg
 

Prime Time

PT
Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
20,922
Name
Peter
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/revisiting-the-greatest-show-on-turf/

Revisiting The Greatest Show On Turf
By Neil Paine/SEP 23, 2014

Fifteen years ago, Mike Martz had a radical notion: “Why does the run have to set up the pass?”

That, according to Sports Illustrated’s Peter King, was the question the new St. Louis Rams offensive coordinator posed to his head coach, Dick Vermeil, as they prepared for the coming NFL season in June 1999. It was to be Vermeil’s third in St. Louis, and judging from the press clippings, probably his last if things didn’t change in a hurry. Over the previous two seasons, Vermeil had coached the Rams to 23 losses and only nine wins, with an offense that ranked 23rd out of 30 NFL teams in passing efficiency and 26th in scoring.

Then came Martz. “I don’t know of any assistant coach that came in, at any one time, in any one program, and made as big a contribution as Mike did at that time,” Vermeil said in a recent interview. In his estimation, Martz’s contribution to the Rams was equivalent to that of a first-round pick — and that’s not a hard case to make. Upon Martz’s arrival, the Rams went from laughingstocks to Super Bowl champs with an explosive attack that came to be known as the “Greatest Show on Turf.”

It was, at the time, the third-most potent scoring offense and the second-most efficient passing attack the league had seen in its modern incarnation. And of even more historical significance, the Rams did it before the league became fixated on throwing the ball.

While the longtime mantra of football coaches everywhere had been to “establish the run” before passing, Martz’s plan was to aggressively pass the ball until the Rams had a lead worth protecting with the run. Stocked with speed everywhere and willing to throw in any situation, the Greatest Show on Turf proved that pass-first teams could win championships, and it heralded the passing fireworks we see in the NFL today.

“If you go back and look at the other teams of that era, the ‘conventional’ teams that you were competing with, [the Rams were] the aberration of the day,” said former Baltimore Ravens coach and current NFL Network analyst Brian Billick, whose head-coaching debut came against the Rams in their 1999 regular-season opener. “St. Louis was so far ahead. It’s hard to say [they were] ‘pass-happy’ because they actually ran the ball pretty well,” he said. “But there’s no question they wanted to throw the ball.”

As Billick noted, St. Louis still could run effectively — running back Marshall Faulk racked up the NFL’s fifth-most rushing yards in 1999 — but that wasn’t the team’s focus. The Rams anticipated what statistical analysts would eventually come to learn about football: Teams run when they win; they don’t win when they run.

After using all that passing to build early leads, St. Louis rushed on the league’s sixth-largest proportion of its second-half plays — and no team devoted more of its fourth-quarter plays to running the ball. Martz had successfully flipped conventional football wisdom on its head, using the pass to set up the run just as he had set out to do.

And ever since the Greatest Show on Turf hit the NFL scene, the league has trended toward ever more (and more effective) passing, further enabled by rule changes designed to incentivize every team to spread the field and throw the ball aggressively.

paine-datalab-gsot-2.png


The genesis of the Rams’ aggressive strategy came when Martz was coaching quarterbacks for the Washington Redskins a year earlier. As ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski tells the story in his book “The Games That Changed The Game,” Martz realized that his pass-heavy third-down play packages were too effective to be confined to such a narrow situation. “Since we both love these plays so much,” Martz asked head coach Norv Turner, “why can’t we run them whenever we want? Why wait till third down?”

“So what happened was that we decided to run these third-and-long plays regardless of down and distance or field position,” Martz told Jaworski. “To us it simply didn’t matter anymore. This kept defenses guessing — they couldn’t zero in on our tendencies, personnel packages, or formations, because they’d always have to be ready for the big pass.”

Armed with such convention-breaking ideas, Martz represented the most revolutionary branch of the coaching tree originally planted by retired San Diego Chargers coach Don Coryell. Martz’s preferred offensive system, nicknamed “Air Coryell” for its emphasis on defense-stretching pass plays, wasn’t new; as the name implied, the system was first developed by Coryell in the 1960s at San Diego State, and later used to great effect at the NFL level by the Chargers of the early ’80s. But it had never been taken to the extremes Martz envisioned upon joining the Rams staff.

During the 1998 season, just three teams passed on more than 50 percent of their first-down plays. Running the West Coast Offense under coach Mike Holmgren, the Green Bay Packers threw in a league-high 57 percent of those situations — but gained an average of only 5.8 yards per attempt. This was an artifact of the West Coast’s philosophy, which had overtaken the league in the two decades since its creation by legendary coach Bill Walsh.

Similar to Coryell’s scheme, Walsh’s offense emphasized passing over rushing, but it focused on stretching the field horizontally with short passes as a means of ball control. By contrast, Martz wanted to throw early and often, but also sought to stretch the field with deep passing.

“If you’ve got a Mercedes,” Martz said at the time, “you don’t keep it in the garage.”

After an offseason overhaul, the Rams possessed the football equivalent of German engineering under the hood. First, they signed accurate passer Trent Green to conduct Martz’s mad experiment from behind center. Then, capitalizing on a brewing contract dispute with the Indianapolis Colts, St. Louis heisted Faulk in a trade, giving up just a pair of draft picks for the league’s best all-around running back.

Days later, they used the sixth overall pick in the draft on Torry Holt, anticipating a productive pairing at wide receiver with former Pro Bowler Isaac Bruce returning from injury. Even the role players, such as second-year receiver Az-Zahir Hakim, had otherworldly speed.

Vermeil was already a longtime Air Coryell believer, and had been trying to install the offense in St. Louis for two years, but lacked the proper personnel. “We had the foundation of it, installed by [former offensive coordinator] Jerry Rhome, the first two years I was there,” Vermeil told me. “I had actually limited [the playbook’s] growth my second year there because we couldn’t complete in the high 60 percent of our throws. So I instructed people to cut back in the volume, hoping that we could improve the execution and the completion percentage.”

With Martz, Faulk, Bruce, Green and Holt in place, such cutbacks were no longer necessary. In the preseason of 1999, Green completed 28 of 32 passes (88 percent) before suffering a season-ending knee injury in the team’s third game. When unheralded backup Kurt Warner stepped in, Vermeil said, Martz and the coaching staff “made no adjustments” to the offensive scheme.

True to Vermeil’s expectations, Warner ended up completing 65.1 percent of his passes, which at the time was the third-best single-season completion percentage by any quarterback ever. In addition, the Rams came within striking distance of the 1989 San Francisco 49ers’ mark for the NFL’s second-most efficient passing offense since the merger.

More importantly, the Rams proved that a team could win without establishing the ground game before unleashing holy terror through the air. On first downs, St. Louis passed a league-high 59 percent of the time, and gained 7.6 yards per attempt on those throws (11 percent more than the NFL average on all attempts that year) and scored a touchdown on 7.4 percent of them (almost twice the league average across all attempts).

On the whole, the Rams passed 5.4 percent more than would be expected from their +9.1 average in-game scoring margin — still the biggest disparity by any Super Bowl winner since the merger.

paine-datalab-gsot-tables.png


“The spread-out type of system, it really did begin with them, because they were so explosive,” Billick told me. “It was a little bit different [from their contemporaries], but they were very successful with it. Kurt Warner made it work, and they spread you out in a way that very few teams could spread you out — that looks, today, very familiar.”

Although no one knew it at the time, the Rams were at the leading edge of something that was about to take over pro football. The NFL’s average passer rating in 1999 was 75.1 — essentially the same as it had been for a decade — and Warner’s 109.2 rate led the league by a mile. It was, at the time, the second-highest single-season mark ever.

Within five years, though, the league-average rating had eclipsed 80.0 for the first time ever, with two players surpassing Warner’s rating from 1999. By last season, the average NFL passer rating was 84.1, with Warner’s 1999 mark dropping to 10th all time.

Because of their sheer effectiveness, pass-first offensive philosophies have gone from the vanguard (see Coryell’s Chargers, or the various Run-and-Shoot teams of the ’90s) to commonplace over the last 15 years.

The conventional narrative is that Bill Belichick’s New England Patriots finally solved Martz’s offense in Super Bowl XXXVI, limiting the Rams to 17 points by making Faulk a non-factor. But St. Louis still moved the ball well in the loss, amassing 427 total yards while Faulk notched 130 yards from scrimmage.

And after a disastrous 7-9 season in 2002, a reloaded version of the Greatest Show on Turf emerged behind another obscure QB (Marc Bulger) to tie for second in the NFL in scoring during the 2003 season. The true end came later, as the Rams’ talent scattered. Faulk retired in 2006, while Bruce, Holt and All-Decade left tackle Orlando Pace donned unfamiliar uniforms in their twilight years. Martz took his system to Detroit, San Francisco and Chicago, garnering mixed reviews when lesser talents were plugged in.

To the coaches, then, the Greatest Show on Turf was really about the perfect marriage of a high-powered strategy and a gifted roster.

“This game has been, is now, and always will be about talent,” Billick said. “Taking nothing away from the system, you’re talking about Hall of Famers like Marshall Faulk, Kurt Warner — who I believe will be in the Hall of Fame — the talents of an Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt … These were unique talents that the system adapted to very, very well.”

Vermeil concurred. “Very few teams ever have that kind of skill, at one time, on their side of the line of scrimmage,” he said.

It was those players who allowed Martz’s progressive game-planning to thrive, and it was his system that showcased their skills. His fingerprints can still be seen on the league 15 years later.

Thanks to Grantland’s Chris Brown for help with this article.
 

ramfan46

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
1,300
Honestly I think the organization is still pissed at Martz in some capacity. They fired him while he was having medical issues! You don't hear about them reaching out to him like they do with old players of the team. He should be around the team every off season. Mike was the guy who gave the team the confidence and identity back when he was the OC IMO. He is pedal to the medal and attacking the defense. Biggest thing I've grown to appreciate about Martz's scheme and philosophy is that he dictates to the D with his formations, shifts, hots and other little details that are above my pay grade. You won't win much playing it safe down the middle. You have to be aggressive to be at the top of any discipline IMO.
 

Merlin

Damn the torpedoes
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2023 TOP Member
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
39,708
Looking back over Mike Martz's career, wherever he was, good things followed for the QBs and WRs. Why don't our players use that? I don't mean why don't the Rams hire Martz. Personally, I don't think Martz wants to work as an assistant coach (below OC) at this point in his career.

I wanted the Rams to hire him last year to scout all the QBs. I still recall him discussing the QB class back in 2004 and he wouldn't shut up about Big Ben, who went as third QB off the board and has outperformed those other two guys (Eli and Rivers). I think the Rams did right by their QB move for Goff, but having a guy like Martz involved would be extremely valuable.

I also think he would have been a great sounding board for Boras and Weinke. Fish should have swallowed his pride and brought Mad Mike in as a consultant. Mike would have done it IMO, as he admits he misses the game and loves the Rams, and our young OC probably would have had a much better result.

So I'm with you man. It irritates me that some people in football can't see the most basic stuff like this. Maybe they need to step back and get out of the grass and view the whole thing from a fan-like perspective at times.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
I'm not even going that far. I want our young QB and WRs to seek him out (and possibly Bruce, Holt, Warner, etc.) this off-season and work with him on developing their technical skills and football IQs.
I'm 100% sure our receivers won't do that.
ANNNNNNNNNNNNNND, I'm 100% sure it wouldn't help.

That's not an arbitrary insult either. I legitimately don't think they're smart enough to do it - or benefit from it if they did. I'm talking about Britt, Austin & Quick. I don't know enough about Cooper, Thomas or Spruce to render that sort of judgement. I really, really hope we start to turn our draft strategy towards eyeing intelligent football players - even if it means you sacrifice some athleticism in the process.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,941
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
I'm 100% sure our receivers won't do that.
ANNNNNNNNNNNNNND, I'm 100% sure it wouldn't help.

That's not an arbitrary insult either. I legitimately don't think they're smart enough to do it - or benefit from it if they did. I'm talking about Britt, Austin & Quick. I don't know enough about Cooper, Thomas or Spruce to render that sort of judgement. I really, really hope we start to turn our draft strategy towards eyeing intelligent football players - even if it means you sacrifice some athleticism in the process.

Personally, I'd like to see two of those three elsewhere. I agree that we need a lot more intelligent, technically-sound football players on this team. The best teams have a mix of both athletes and technicians. Can we even come up with one technician on this team outside of Aaron Donald?(who is also an elite athlete)
 

Ram65

Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
9,787
I'm not even going that far. I want our young QB and WRs to seek him out (and possibly Bruce, Holt, Warner, etc.) this off-season and work with him on developing their technical skills and football IQs.

I wonder if the younger WRs know who Mike Martz is. Seems like having Martz in to help would be more on management. I would really like to see Mike Martz come in and help Jared Goff!

It will be interesting to see how the new HC and Company will reach out to past Rams. There is a lot former Rams talent that probably would be willing to help. Warner and Faulk are in LA with the NFLN.
 

Yamahopper

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,838
Like positive the team would have to give permission to the contractually bound players to go get the training from another source. All contracts limits activities a player can and cannot do. Example_ Goff goes to the Aussie fall league and blows an ACL.

And to whoever the HC, OC is wouldn't that be a slap in the face if your players are learning Martz system, verbiage instead of their playbooks.

Great idea though.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,941
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
Like positive the team would have to give permission to the contractually bound players to go get the training from another source. All contracts limits activities a player can and cannot do. Example_ Goff goes to the Aussie fall league and blows an ACL.

And to whoever the HC, OC is wouldn't that be a slap in the face if your players are learning Martz system, verbiage instead of their playbooks.

Great idea though.

Martz can teach them technical skills without having go through his system and verbiage. I'll also point out that contracts don't bar players from hiring their own coaches and trainers over the off-season. It's pretty common for that to happen. For example, Blake Bortles fixed his mechanics after his rookie year by spending all off-season working with Tom House and his staff (and plans to do it again this off-season after his mechanics regressed). Greg Robinson spent this past off-season working with LeCharles Bentley.

No NFL team is going to take exception to a guy like Goff or Austin using Mike Martz as a personal coach to improve their technique and football IQ. The Rams coaches actually are barred from working with the players over the off-season.
 

Yamahopper

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,838
Martz can teach them technical skills without having go through his system and verbiage. I'll also point out that contracts don't bar players from hiring their own coaches and trainers over the off-season. It's pretty common for that to happen. For example, Blake Bortles fixed his mechanics after his rookie year by spending all off-season working with Tom House and his staff (and plans to do it again this off-season after his mechanics regressed). Greg Robinson spent this past off-season working with LeCharles Bentley.

No NFL team is going to take exception to a guy like Goff or Austin using Mike Martz as a personal coach to improve their technique and football IQ. The Rams coaches actually are barred from working with the players over the off-season.
All football activity is controlled by the team.So it's If they get permission. But there's no rule against Goff having dinner with Martz a few times.
I think it's great when a player steps up and tries to improve.
2 things,
If the Rams wanted Martz to work with the players they can afford to hire him during to OTA season for a couple weeks. He's said he's open to working for teams in this capacity in interviews.
And do you think if they hire Shanahan he's going to want to hear " But Coach Martz said to do it this way" 50 times a practice. It's territorial thing.

Football is a business like any other business. Martz would be a consultant brought in to provide a solution to a problem. The consultant provides a solution, gets paid well and moves on. 90% of the time the solution is never implemented for the fact it steps on someones toes.
I'm a consultant.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,941
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #32
All football activity is controlled by the team.So it's If they get permission. But there's no rule against Goff having dinner with Martz a few times.
I think it's great when a player steps up and tries to improve.
2 things,
If the Rams wanted Martz to work with the players they can afford to hire him during to OTA season for a couple weeks. He's said he's open to working for teams in this capacity in interviews.
And do you think if they hire Shanahan he's going to want to hear " But Coach Martz said to do it this way" 50 times a practice. It's territorial thing.

Football is a business like any other business. Martz would be a consultant brought in to provide a solution to a problem. The consultant provides a solution, gets paid well and moves on. 90% of the time the solution is never implemented for the fact it steps on someones toes.
I'm a consultant.

Eh, no, not really. They don't have to seek permission. It makes sense for them to make the team aware, but they can ultimately do what they want. The team doesn't have control over them during that period. It's why contact with the coaching staff is barred.
 

OnceARam

Hall of Fame
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
3,470
I don't think they practice in the off-season... just a lot of cheerios and video games. I mean, have you seen them try to catch a ball? It's like our receivers are offended someone would try to throw something at them.

They wouldnt last a day with Martz.

They prefer Fisher telling them how great they are.
 

Yamahopper

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,838
Eh, no, not really. They don't have to seek permission. It makes sense for them to make the team aware, but they can ultimately do what they want. The team doesn't have control over them during that period. It's why contact with the coaching staff is barred.
Yeah thats why we see so many young players getting reps in the foreign leagues, Gotcha.
Sure glad you weren't one of the Phd's who accepted my dissertation on contractual
business, including contracts from the major four sports leagues. Phew, I dodged a bullet there!!.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,941
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #35
Yeah thats why we see so many young players getting reps in the foreign leagues, Gotcha.
Sure glad you weren't one of the Phd's who accepted my dissertation on contractual
business, including contracts from the major four sports leagues. Phew, I dodged a bullet there!!.

This isn't getting reps in a foreign league. This is working with a personal coach. Paragraph 3 of the NFL standard form contract can be interpreted as barring that sort of activity without consent. However, there are a few relevant considerations that come into play when interpreting that provision. First, when speaking practically, what the contract says doesn't really matter if the team isn't prepared to enforce it. What do I mean? A team has to be willing to void the contract (cutting the player), seek back-payment, or seek an injunction barring the player from taking part in that activity in order for the provision to mean anything practically. When was the last time you saw a team void a contract for a player working with a personal coach on his game in the off-season without consent?

Second, you have a contractual interpretation question. Does working with a personal coach in the off-season without prior consent violate a provision that bars the player from "play[ing] football or engag[ing] in activities related to football otherwise than for Club[?]" There's certainly an argument to be made that it does. However, when you look at the contractual terms in Paragraphs 1, 8, and 11, the argument that it violates that Paragraph 3 becomes much weaker. What you then run into is a question of how the court will interpret the term. Paragraph 1 limits the scope of the contract to the "football season." Paragraph 8 demands that a player must keep up his physical condition. Paragraph 11 demands that a player must keep up a satisfactory level of skill. When these contractual terms are taken in conjunction, it seems unlikely for you to win an argument that the player working with a personal coach during the off-season violates Paragraph 3.

Simply put, the judge (or arbitrator) has a ton of wiggle room to interpret things against you and likely will because it is nonsensical to interpret the contract as requiring consent during the off-season for the NFL player to do any activity necessary to better himself and keep himself in game shape (since working out and working on his skill both are arguably activities related to football) when the contract specifies that the player must keep his physical condition and skills at a certain level to remain employed. It conflicts with the plain language of the contract, undermines the intent of both parties, and insults the intelligence of the judge (or arbitrator).

Third, you have the public relations nightmare of attempting to void a contract or seeking back-pay from a player for working on his game. That's not something NFL teams are going to want to deal with. First of all, it discourages other players from using the off-season to improve their games. Second of all, it will get the team eviscerated by the media for seeking remedies against a player who was trying to improve.

That is why, practically, players do not have to seek permission. When you consider contractual interpretation, the unlikelihood of enforcement, and the public relations nightmare, there is no real risk that a NFL team is going to attempt to come after a player for working with a private coach on his skills during the off-season when he's barred from working with his own team's coaches.

For example, we often hear that players workout together in the off-season and work with each other on their respective skills (for example, Tavon Austin working with Brandon Marshall. Do you believe that every player seeks consent from his team before doing that?
 
Last edited:

…..

Legend
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
5,089
FWIW...I think as a QB, you'd be nuts NOT to talk to Mike Martz and get some personal work outs.

I'm not so much thinking it would help our group of WR's as much as 1 on 1 QB workouts would.

I thought Martz was a genius with QB's and timing routes. If he could turn Marc Bulger into a pro bowler, he can pretty much own my QB training room.
 

ReddingRam

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
2,459
Looking back over Mike Martz's career, wherever he was, good things followed for the QBs and WRs. Why don't our players use that? I don't mean why don't the Rams hire Martz. Personally, I don't think Martz wants to work as an assistant coach (below OC) at this point in his career.

However, during the off-season, why don't our players hire Martz as a coach to work with them? Let's look back at the highlights of Martz's career:
1995 - Rams QB Coach: Developed Chris Chandler from a bust to a solid starting QB
Chandlers first 6 years in the NFL (prior to Martz): 39 starts, 54.9% completion percentage, 34 TDs to 48 Ints, and a 66.1 QB Rating
Chandler's next 8 years in the NFL (with and after Martz): 98 starts, 59.4% completion percentage, 127 TDs to 79 Ints, and a 86.9 QB Rating

1996 to 1997 - Rams WR Coach: Developed Isaac Bruce into a HOF WR
Bruce produced 203 catches, 3119 yards, and 20 TDs across those two years after putting just under 300 yards and 3 TDs as a rookie

1997 to 1998 - Redskins QB Coach: Developed QB Trent Green from an 8th round pick with no starts before his 28th birthday into a solid starting QB

1999 to 2006 - Rams OC/HC: There are a long list of guys he developed for us. But the fact is that he developed Kurt Warner (UDFA), Trent Green (8th round pick), and Marc Bulger (6th round pick) into Pro Bowl QBs. He also found Ryan Fitzpatrick in the 7th round.

Add it all together, Mike Martz developed Chandler, Warner, Green, and Bulger all into Pro Bowl QBs. Chandler was the highest drafted of the four. He was a 3rd round pick. He was also a total bust prior to Martz.

Why are our guys not using him as a resource? Our organization should strongly suggest to Goff that he work with Mike Martz over the off-season. The guy might be the greatest QB evaluator and developer in NFL history.

I also would have recommended it to our young WRs like Tavon years ago.
As of right now?? ... I'd say because Mike Martz comes from the Coryell/Zampese coaching tree and Goff and the Rams ( the past couple yrs) have been using the WCO system? Just one reason ... would be my hunch
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,941
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #38
As of right now?? ... I'd say because Mike Martz comes from the Coryell/Zampese coaching tree and Goff and the Rams ( the past couple yrs) have been using the WCO system? Just one reason ... would be my hunch

While that explains why Fisher wouldn't bring him on as a consultant, it doesn't stop Austin or another Rams player from using Martz to improve their technical skills as a player.
 

jap

Legend
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
6,593
The Martz implementation makes much more sense for the Horns. All season long they have faced defenses keyed to stop the Express! by saturating the box with bodies. Nothing will disrupt those defenses more quickly than an accurate QB with touch who employs play action passing to go downfield with deadly results. The key is getting the QB's head acclimated to the fast & furious approach and to find quality receivers with good-to-great route running techniques.
 

PA Ram

Pro Bowler
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
1,392
I'm 100% sure our receivers won't do that.
ANNNNNNNNNNNNNND, I'm 100% sure it wouldn't help.

That's not an arbitrary insult either. I legitimately don't think they're smart enough to do it - or benefit from it if they did. I'm talking about Britt, Austin & Quick. I don't know enough about Cooper, Thomas or Spruce to render that sort of judgement. I really, really hope we start to turn our draft strategy towards eyeing intelligent football players - even if it means you sacrifice some athleticism in the process.

That has been one of my biggest criticisms of this team that Fisher/Snead assembled. For all the physical talent--they just don't seem very smart. They don't always seem focused either. And they may be very smart in life--I have no idea. But this team makes dumb mistakes time and again. I want more focused, smart players who are aware of situations, who grasp the playbook easily, who do not shoot the team in the foot at critical moments.

Do not get players who beat themselves.

If you are going to lose make the other team beat you.