Who was worse, Spags or Linehan?

[Boffo97]

It certainly did. He also didn't tolerate former Rams greats hanging around.

There was a link in another thread talking about how that didn't happen. It was something like he took down one picture and the rumor mill went out of control.

That's just spin. People like Dick Vermiel and Marshall Faulk came to Hewitt's defense. I'll take their smarts and integrity over Spags every day of the week.

I disagree, and so do a lot of people. The leak theory makes a lot of otherwise really weird factors about the situation suddenly make sense.

Spags is the losingest coach in Rams history and just about the losingest in NFL history. He followed that up with the worst defense (by yards) in NFL history which got him fired after one year.

Since leaving the Giants Spags has failed on an epic scale. Fisher came here and immediately dumped 2/3 of the roster, a roster that Spags spent 3 years building.

He was crap. But so was Linehan.

It's a tough call...

Spags inherited no talent when he came. Thus 2009. When disastrous injury struck multiple units, anyone would have been doomed. That's 2011. My challenge as to how a bad coach could have improved by 6 games in 2010 remains unanswered. When he left, I care more about those core players that encouraged Fisher to come here than the turnover.

As I said, I don't really care about what he did for other teams... but you have to realize that once Bountygate broke, any DC was going to be a dead man walking in New Orleans.

I'm glad we got Fisher because anyone else the Rams were talking about (possibly even Gruden) would have been a downgrade.

Ultimately, I think Spags gets a lot of hate for things beyond his control, or that are just not true.

Really not sure what the point of this thread was other than to restart old arguments. As others have said, let's just focus on now. We can all agree now is good right?

 

[Dodgersrf]

If Spags had been successful, you could argue the control freak thing was what the Rams needed. But seeing as how he went 10-38, seems like a bad move...

I know Spags learned from the tough guy Caughlin, but even Caughlin has lightened up.

 

[Boffo97]

Yeah, your right about that. But Spags was a control freak. He created that persona on his own.

Getting your QB killed didn't seem like the correct call though.

I'd say that was McDaniels... not Spags.

And again, Spags faced a damned if he did and damned if he didn't situation there. At the risk of starting another old argument, it's like how pretty much everyone who blames Martz for SB36 because he didn't run more would be blaming Martz if he did run more and the Rams still lost (which I'm sure they would have because I'm convinced the fix was in) because he abandoned what got the team there in the biggest game of his career.

 

[MrMotes]

It's hard to say who was a worse coach, but now that i relive it, i hated Spags more.

Because he fired so many long time employees, because he disrespected Rams history and because he punted to the Giants...

 

[Dodgersrf]

I'd say that was McDaniels... not Spags.

And again, Spags faced a damned if he did and damned if he didn't situation there. At the risk of starting another old argument, it's like how pretty much everyone who blames Martz for SB36 because he didn't run more would be blaming Martz if he did run more and the Rams still lost (which I'm sure they would have because I'm convinced the fix was in) because he abandoned what got the team there in the biggest game of his career.

Mc D wasn't the right move for spags. Mc D is to share some blame.

To think that I was excited by the signing of Mc Daniels. What a big mistake. Wrong place wrong time.

 

[Prime Time]

Scott Linehan takes firm control of the Cowboys’ offense
Posted by Michael David Smith on June 21, 2014

AP

The Cowboys have an offensive-minded head coach in Jason Garrett and an offensive coordinator in Bill Callahan, but it’s passing game coordinator Scott Linehan who’s running the offense in Dallas.

Linehan led all the offensive meetings throughout the spring, Albert Breer of NFL Network reports. That fact confirms the widespread belief that while Garrett is Linehan’s boss and Callahan is technically above Linehan on the organizational flow chart, it’s Linehan who is making the decisions on the Cowboys’ offense.

So what will a Linehan-run offense in Dallas look like? It will probably feature more passing than Cowboys fans are accustomed to seeing. During Linehan’s previous job, as the offensive coordinator in Detroit, the Lions were always among the league leaders in pass attempts. Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford has averaged more than 42 passes a game the last three seasons, while Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo has averaged only 36 passes a game the last three seasons. With Linehan calling the shots, Romo should expect to throw more.

If Linehan’s offense can get the Cowboys out of their 8-8 rut and into the playoffs, the decision to bring him on board will be hailed as a wise move in Dallas. If the Cowboys go in the other direction, Linehan, Garrett and Callahan will all likely be looking for new jobs.
---------------------------------------
And then there's Spags. How the mighty have fallen.......

Ravens move Steve Spagnuolo to secondary coach
Posted by Darin Gantt on January 29, 2014

AP

The Ravens continue to adjust their coaching staff, and have given a former NFL head coach new job description.

The team announced the hiring of tight ends coach Brian Pariani, and that Steve Spagnuolo had been moved from senior defensive assistant to secondary coach.

Spagnuolo was in the consultant role last year after getting washed out in New Orleans, where the defense he coordinated set a league record for yards allowed. The former Rams head coach was already familiar with the Ravens personnel, making it an easy switch to replace Teryl Austin (who left to become Jim Caldwell’s defensive coordinator in Detroit).

“How fortunate are we to have a former NFL head coach, former defensive coordinator and secondary coach become the Ravens’ coach for our defensive backs?” head coach John Harbaugh said in the team’s release. “Steve is one of the outstanding teachers in the NFL, and he already worked with our defensive staff and players last season as a senior assistant. Our players respect him, and a number of our veteran defensive backs recently said to me that they wanted Steve to coach them.”

Pariani replaces Wade Harman, who had been with the team since 1999, as part of the offensive shakeup. He had coached tight ends alongside new offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak in Houston and Denver.

 

[Boffo97]

Mc D wasn't the right move for spags. Mc D is to share some blame.

To think that I was excited by the signing of Mc Daniels. What a big mistake. Wrong place wrong time.

Even though I freely admit he failed elsewhere, I think Pat Shurmur also got a lot more hate here than he deserved. In 2010, he understood that we still had talent issues (other than Jackson) and he had a conservative plan that led us to more success than we had seen since Linehan's first year.

The fans would have howled at someone else who was conservative coming in, but I think he would have done better than McDaniels.

That said, I still think injuries were far and away the most to blame for 2011. Other factors should be minor footnotes at best.

 

[Rams43]

That didn't actually happen.


Because the dude was a locker room leak. Had nothing to do with supposed insecurities.

Not intending to nitpick, Boffo. But since I'm a new board member, I sure don't want to leave the impression that I just make things up as I go along.

Are you saying that Spags DIDN'T have the GSOT posters taken down? 'Cause that was widely reported by beat writers after his hiring. He was also known to make former players/stars feel distinctly unwelcome at Rams Park.

As to the Todd Hewitt firing, here is a quote from a Salter article posted at NFL.com...

"Hewitt, now 55, began working for the Los Angeles Rams at age 11, helping his father with the team's equipment. He officially joined the staff in 1978 and succeeded his father as equipment manager in 1986. He was named NFL Equipment Manager of the Year in 1997, three seasons after the Ramsrelocated to St. Louis.

The lawsuit said Steve Spagnuolo, hired as head coach in 2009, made comments to Hewitt about his age, "including in 2009, when he told him he was too old for his job," the lawsuit said.

"Mr. Spagnuolo also told Mr. Hewitt that his employment was `NFL' which means `Not For Long' employment," the lawsuit stated.

Hewitt was 10 months shy of eligibility for extended health benefits for himself and his family and would have become eligible for early retirement when he was fired in January 2011, the lawsuit stated".

Now if firing such an employee is not a sure sign that Spags was micro managing and with a touch of paranoia, I don't know what to say.

Clearly, Spags had his focus on minutia and not on the Big Picture.

Having said all that, I think Les nailed it when he said the Spags vs Linny debate comes down to shades of gray.

BOTH were terrible HC's.

 

[MrMotes]

There was a link in another thread talking about how that didn't happen. It was something like he took down one picture and the rumor mill went out of control.

Jim Thomas swears it did, that many pictures were taken down, that it was noticed and talked about. The only people ever denying it were Rams PR people...

I disagree, and so do a lot of people. The leak theory makes a lot of otherwise really weird factors about the situation suddenly make sense.

As loing as you realize it's only a theory. The Spags was a dick and fired good people theory makes a lot of sense too.

We can all agree now is good right?

About as good as two straight 7 win seasons can be...

 

[Dodgersrf]

Even though I freely admit he failed elsewhere, I think Pat Shurmur also got a lot more hate here than he deserved. In 2010, he understood that we still had talent issues (other than Jackson) and he had a conservative plan that led us to more success than we had seen since Linehan's first year.

The fans would have howled at someone else who was conservative coming in, but I think he would have done better than McDaniels.

That said, I still think injuries were far and away the most to blame for 2011. Other factors should be minor footnotes at best.

I didn't have a problem with Shurmer. I understood that he was playing safe with a rookie qb and very little to work with as far as weapons.

Those injuries to the secondary that year were the almost unbelievably.

 

[Boffo97]

Not intending to nitpick, Boffo. But since I'm a new board member, I sure don't want to leave the impression that I just make things up as I go along.

Are you saying that Spags DIDN'T have the GSOT posters taken down? 'Cause that was widely reported by beat writers after his hiring. He was also known to make former players/stars feel distinctly unwelcome at Rams Park.

As to the Todd Hewitt firing, here is a quote from a Salter article posted at NFL.com...

"Hewitt, now 55, began working for the Los Angeles Rams at age 11, helping his father with the team's equipment. He officially joined the staff in 1978 and succeeded his father as equipment manager in 1986. He was named NFL Equipment Manager of the Year in 1997, three seasons after the Ramsrelocated to St. Louis.

The lawsuit said Steve Spagnuolo, hired as head coach in 2009, made comments to Hewitt about his age, "including in 2009, when he told him he was too old for his job," the lawsuit said.

"Mr. Spagnuolo also told Mr. Hewitt that his employment was `NFL' which means `Not For Long' employment," the lawsuit stated.

Hewitt was 10 months shy of eligibility for extended health benefits for himself and his family and would have become eligible for early retirement when he was fired in January 2011, the lawsuit stated".

Now if firing such an employee is not a sure sign that Spags was micro managing and with a touch of paranoia, I don't know what to say.

Clearly, Spags had his focus on minutia and not on the Big Picture.

Having said all that, I think Les nailed it when he said the Spags vs Linny debate comes down to shades of gray.

BOTH were terrible HC's.

I know the story goes around that he took down all the pictures. Some say it's true, some say it's false.

I also know the story is that Hewitt's non-contract renewal (not firing) was age discrimination/control freak. Some say that's true. Some say it's the locker room leak.

So I'm not accusing you of making up anything and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. These things are really up in the air as to what's true and what's not and ultimately it's opinion vs. opinion.

But ultimately... I don't care. I think both things are really minor things in the grand scheme of things. I look at what I saw on the field.

2009: Hardly any talent except Jackson, 1-15. I don't expect any coach to do well.

2010: 7-9. 6 game improvement. A bad record means only that SOMETHING is going wrong. A good record says everything is going right. The challenge to name another "bad coach" who ever had a 6 game improvement still goes unanswered.

2011: The team is decimated by injuries, especially to the offensive line and secondary. While I don't agree with everything Spags/Devaney did that year (especially all the "win now" one year prove it contracts that ALL failed), I can't think of a single head coach that would have noticeably more success with those kinds of injuries. Some counter-examples have been given in terms of number of injuries, but those were more spread out over different units and more backups. These were starters, causing us to have to start a LOT of people who weren't even on rosters opening day.

So in the last year that counted, there was still that 6 game improvement. I think Kroenke just saw an opportunity to get his guy and a guy that would be considered an upgrade to most coaches in the NFL. And he said he came here because of the players we had in place here.

Linehan took a still decent team and ran it into the ground. Spags took a bankrupt team and at least gave them roots again. Spags doesn't deserve to be even mentioned in the same sentence as Linehan.

 

[MrMotes]

I think Kroenke just saw an opportunity to get his guy

I tend to think it was the 10-38 thing that got Spags and Devaney fired...

 

[Mister Sin]

Torry Holt, throughout his entire career was a Team guy. He LOVED the game he played and always had a smile and was laughing. The only time I saw him go off was on Scott Linehan. He had a lot of firepower still around and squandered it. Spags was a rat bastard, everyone knows that. But he got the team going for a minute.

 

[DCH]

I'm not sure Spags deserves much in the way of credit... yes, he improved upon a historically bad team, but he did so by bringing in a lot of older players who were near the bottom of the downside of their careers. He put a band-aid on a terrible team. Compare that with Fisher, who has been more willing and able to add players through the draft process and develop them into starters. The analogy would, I believe, be 'he let the wound scab over and heal.'

 

[LesBaker]

This feels like asking what is worse: diarrhea or vomit?

Diarrea because you can aim vomit LOL

 

[Afro Ram]

Wasn't Linehan the guy who released isaac Bruce over a million dollars and let him play for the ninners? Freak that guy. Seriously

 

[Afro Ram]

You don't freak with my boy Bruce..... sorry I'm not normally this hostile lol

 

[Boffo97]

I tend to think it was the 10-38 thing that got Spags and Devaney fired...

And I personally hope Kroenke didn't just look at the record, but to look as to what the cause of it was.

In the two years it was awful, I don't think the coach was anywhere near the main problem.

Now that said, I'd be a lot more upset about this if we downgraded instead of getting Fisher. We were even talking to Arizona's DC of all people. Yuck.

 

[MrMotes]

And I personally hope Kroenke didn't just look at the record, but to look as to what the cause of it was.

In the two years it was awful, I don't think the coach was anywhere near the main problem.

Now that said, I'd be a lot more upset about this if we downgraded instead of getting Fisher. We were even talking to Arizona's DC of all people. Yuck.

I know we've been over this a lot in the past but really no coach/gm could survive the record Spags and Devaney put up over three years. No set of extenuating circumstances could've saved their jobs. The results were too horrible.

And again, Fisher didn't come in and build on the good work that had been done before him. He fired every coach and replaced 2/3 of the team, right out of the gate. That's not an endorsement of the prior regime, it's a condemnation...