Which QB package would you prefer in 2015?

[Elmgrovegnome]

What I find interesting is back when Bradford was drafted there was a large contingent of fans that were saying that the Rams needed to fix the team first and draft their future QB after everything was in place. Well everything is just about in place and there doesn't seem to be a QB in sight that can help. Just another example of why you take a franchise QB whenever you get the chance.....even if you already have one. But they are few and far between. If Sam could have stayed healthy he would have been good enough to win it all IMO. Now, who knows. The window is beginning to open for this team. I just hope the Rams can answer their QB problems before the windows starts to close.

 

[iced]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I believe that Fisher and crew want Bradford back but won't be able to justify giving $16+ more million to someone that has missed 25 of the last 32 games without some incentives being met. Being the best option on paper means little.

I agree with you I just don't know what's going to happen - they didn't ask him to take a pay cut last season, if anything they wanted to extend him.... so it's kinda hard seeing them want to just cut him if he won't take a pay cut

 

[Akrasian]

I think Bradford will be back under his current contract, he's not going to take a pay cut and I doubt the Rams will want to extend his contract until he shows he can stay healthy for a full year and they won't cut him because a healthy Bradford is going to be their best option. I think it's fine, they can free up plenty of cap space for free agency be making other moves.

He would prefer to not take a pay cut - but there is no way he gets as much as he is currently under contract for with another team - heck, it's dubious that he gets that much with a second year added with another team.

I'm skeptical he'll be ready for the start of the season, and there are huge doubts about whether he'll stay healthy on that twice repaired knee. So if he refuses a pay cut with an extension for a year, he will be costing himself money most likely. The Rams are probably the team most likely to pay him at this stage. I could see a 2 year new contract - say $4.5 million bonus, $2.5 million salary guaranteed the first year, $6 million the second year (this could be tweaked of course). That would reduce the cap hit substantially for the Rams the first year, and give him $7 million guaranteed, more than he is likely to get elsewhere. Undoubtedly there would be tweaking - but he has to realize that the last year of his rookie contract is not going to happen, and no other team will gamble that much guaranteed money on a guy with two ACL tears in two seasons.

 

[Boffo97]

I agree with you I just don't know what's going to happen - they didn't ask him to take a pay cut last season, if anything they wanted to extend him.... so it's kinda hard seeing them want to just cut him if he won't take a pay cut

Why would they have tried to cut his pay last year?

 

[iced]

Why would they have tried to cut his pay last year?

they didn't, they wanted to extend him...

 

[Cullen Bryant]

He would prefer to not take a pay cut - but there is no way he gets as much as he is currently under contract for with another team - heck, it's dubious that he gets that much with a second year added with another team.

I'm skeptical he'll be ready for the start of the season, and there are huge doubts about whether he'll stay healthy on that twice repaired knee. So if he refuses a pay cut with an extension for a year, he will be costing himself money most likely. The Rams are probably the team most likely to pay him at this stage. I could see a 2 year new contract - say $4.5 million bonus, $2.5 million salary guaranteed the first year, $6 million the second year (this could be tweaked of course). That would reduce the cap hit substantially for the Rams the first year, and give him $7 million guaranteed, more than he is likely to get elsewhere. Undoubtedly there would be tweaking - but he has to realize that the last year of his rookie contract is not going to happen, and no other team will gamble that much guaranteed money on a guy with two ACL tears in two seasons.

I get what you're saying but if I were Bradford's agent and the Rams approached me with an offer like what you suggested I would refuse, knowing the Rams really aren't in a position to just cut Bradford loose, and if they did cut him I would be more than willing to test free agency before accepting a deal like that. I'm not sure that's a game the Rams want to play without another viable option at qb. I still think the Rams will let the final year of his contract play out, he'll either earn a new deal or they will be done with him.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I get what you're saying but if I were Bradford's agent and the Rams approached me with an offer like what you suggested I would refuse, knowing the Rams really aren't in a position to just cut Bradford loose, and if they did cut him I would be more than willing to test free agency before accepting a deal like that. I'm not sure that's a game the Rams want to play without another viable option at qb. I still think the Rams will let the final year of his contract play out, he'll either earn a new deal or they will be done with him.

The Rams would have free agency, cap casualty cuts, trades and the draft to replace Bradford.
Bradford would be testing the waters of free agency while re-habbing a twice baked knee that may or may not have him ready to participate in training camp for said new team. Sam isn't going to learn a new offense from the physical trainers.

Why do you think Sam has the advantage/leverage in this situation?

 

[Cullen Bryant]

The Rams would have free agency, cap casualty cuts, trades and the draft to replace Bradford.
Bradford would be testing the waters of free agency while re-habbing a twice baked knee that may or may not have him ready to participate in training camp for said new team. Sam isn't going to learn a new offense from the physical trainers.

Why do you think Sam has the advantage/leverage in this situation?

If the Rams are able to acquire another qb that they want to go with than they would have leverage but I don't think Bradford is in a position where he needs to accept a deal he doesn't like. It really comes down to his rehab, if Bradford can pass physicals I think he would get plenty of interest. I'm just saying I'll be surprised if that is the approach the Rams take.

 

[Mojo Ram]

If the Rams are able to acquire another qb that they want to go with than they would have leverage but I don't think Bradford is in a position where he needs to accept a deal he doesn't like. It really comes down to his rehab, if Bradford can pass physicals I think he would get plenty of interest. I'm just saying I'll be surprised if that is the approach the Rams take.

Well that's just it. He won't be able to workout for anybody. The Rams wouldn't ask for a physical either because Sam's progressed is already being tracked here.

 

[Cullen Bryant]

Well that's just it. He won't be able to workout for anybody. The Rams wouldn't ask for a physical either because Sam's progressed is already being tracked here.

Yeah I meant if the Rams cut him he would get plenty of interest as long as he could pass a physical, which leads to my main point in that I don't think the Rams will cut him or make him take a pay cut, I think he comes back under his current contract. Of course it would be great if Bradford was willing to do something to ease his cap hit, I hope he does but I don't see the Rams giving him an ultimatum.

 

[bluecoconuts]

C, Bradford to start, and a draft pick to groom. Either he'll take over for Sam eventually, or we can trade him after he's developed.

If Bradford can't stay on, I want a vet to take control until the rookie is ready to play. I'm not big on spending anything worthwhile for a potential backup, especially ones with baggage. RG3, Manziel, Locker, etc would probably cost more than we may think, and that's not worth it for what should essentially be an emergency rental.

 

[reggae]

I don't get all the love for Glennon. He's worse than Davis despite having better WR in Vjax and Evans. He's inaccurate and makes poor decisions.
Moore is a lesser Hill.
Not going to be a dominate team taking out other teams garbage.

Bradford, Hill and draft Hogan or Hundley.

 

[Ramathon]

what about the option: trading for a top QB option?

What team in their right mind would trade a 'top QB'? And what would the astronomical cost of doing so?

 

[Ramathon]

Four bundle packages. You can pick one...

Package A
-A first-round QB (Trade up for Winston/Mariota, stay put & take Hundley or whoever).
-FA veteran to either start the first few games, or serve as No.2 (Hill, Sanchez, Vick, McCoy, whoever. Hoyer in a best case scenario).
-A low-level player like Davis to be #3

Package B
-A high-pick QB we don't trade up for (Hundley, Cook, Mannion, Prescott)
-Bradford
-A lottery ticket--someone with great potential who shouldn't be too pricy (RG3, Locker, Manziel)

Package C
Same as B, except replace lottery ticket with more stable vet (Hill, Hoyer, Sanchez, Moore, Campbell)

Package D
-Bradford
-Veteran FA (Hill, Hoyer, Sanchez, etc.)
-late rd pick, or Davis

I can't vote for this one as what we 'want' is irrelevant. But I would be inclined to think the likelihood of each of those packages actually occurring would fall something like......

A - almost no chance
B - slim chance. I just don't see the Rams going with the 'lottery ticket' option.
C - the most likely to occur....IMO, of course.
D - More likely than A or B, but considerably behind C. Of course, how they use cap $$ elsewhere could push the probabilities of this one up higher.

 

[Ramathon]

IMO, they never sustain success and rarely win championships because of the lack of creativity of NFL coaching staffs who don't play to their strengths and try to fit these square pegs into their round holes.

BTW, since it is a team sport, I can't recall too many running QBs that have had the luxury of playing on teams with strong defenses to help them sustain success and win championships.

IMO, running QB's don't succeed in the NFL because the talent level of defenses is SO much higher in the NFL that the raw talents that allowed them to succeed at the college level just isn't enough at the pro level. Everyone is just bigger, faster, stronger with quicker reactions in the NFL. And I'm talking on average. Yes, exceptions can be found against some teams in some conferences at the college level, but they are just that...exceptions, not the rule.

 

[Memphis Ram]

IMO, running QB's don't succeed in the NFL because the talent level of defenses is SO much higher in the NFL that the raw talents that allowed them to succeed at the college level just isn't enough at the pro level. Everyone is just bigger, faster, stronger with quicker reactions in the NFL. And I'm talking on average. Yes, exceptions can be found against some teams in some conferences at the college level, but they are just that...exceptions, not the rule.

I wonder how on average it would be if the total number of running QBs actually given the opportunity to play in the league (AND to their strengths) matched the total number of traditional pocket passers who have been given said opportunity. Perhaps then, these guys wouldn't be considered exceptions and not the rule.

IMO, the exceptions are the guys who make it period (running or traditional dropback QBs) as there have been a buttload of the latter style who have been given FAR more opportunities yet have bombed, too. In fact, the failure rate may the same. And this with the traditional pocket passer not being asked to change his game like the running QB.

 

[moklerman]

I wonder how on average it would be if the total number of running QBs actually given the opportunity to play in the league (AND to their strengths) matched the total number of traditional pocket passers who have been given said opportunity. Perhaps then, these guys wouldn't be considered exceptions and not the rule.

IMO, the exceptions are the guys who make it period (running or traditional dropback QBs) as there have been a buttload of the latter style who have been given FAR more opportunities yet have bombed, too. In fact, the failure rate may the same. Only, the traditional pocket passer hasn't been asked to change his game like the running QB.

That's another part of the problem. If you decide to go with a schoolyard offense that caters to a QB running around, you have to actually get two of those guys(or more).

It's hard enough to find one QB to run a more traditional offense that doesn't expose the QB(as much).

It does seem odd that there aren't more examples of guys who can process the game mentally who can also run. But there has to be something to it. Guys who don't have the physical ability to run away from everyone must develop the mental side of their game out of necessity or something. The opposite must happen to the runners.

 

[Memphis Ram]

That's another part of the problem. If you decide to go with a schoolyard offense that caters to a QB running around, you have to actually get two of those guys(or more).

It's hard enough to find one QB to run a more traditional offense that doesn't expose the QB(as much).

It does seem odd that there aren't more examples of guys who can process the game mentally who can also run. But there has to be something to it. Guys who don't have the physical ability to run away from everyone must develop the mental side of their game out of necessity or something. The opposite must happen to the runners.

That's just it. I believe it is possible to get 2-3 of these guys (or more) easy as they aren't in demand. They are all over college football, on NFL benches, or on the streets (no team). Some will get (or have gotten) an opportunity to transition into the closed minded traditional drop back pocket passer model, while others will be (or have gotten) asked to change positions or told to go to Canada or something.

IMO, a coach with a creative mind who is not wiling to conform to the norm, might see all this available talent out there, study this "Delaware Wing-T" philosophy like Auburn's Gus Malzahn has and devalue the overpriced QB position a bit almost like the RB position has been over the years.

 

[moklerman]

That's just it. I believe it is possible to get 2-3 of these guys (or more) easy as they aren't in demand. They are all over college football, on NFL benches, or on the streets (no team). Some will get (or have gotten) an opportunity to transition into the closed minded traditional drop back pocket passer model, while others will be (or have gotten) asked to change positions or told to go to Canada or something.

IMO, a coach with a creative mind who is not wiling to conform to the norm, might see all this available talent out there, study this "Delaware Wing-T" philosophy like Auburn's Gus Malzahn has and devalue the overpriced QB position a bit almost like the RB position has been over the years.

Don't you think there's a reason that the NFL doesn't use that type of offense though? I've often wondered why the college offenses don't work in the NFL and it seems to me that they work in college is because there are physical mismatches. A QB can produce because he's more athletic than most of the other team's players.

At the NFL level though, that doesn't work.

Now, I'm not saying that something innovative or different can't come along and succeed but I don't think the NFL is averse to it either. So, I have to wonder why there aren't QB's running around all over the place. Every decade there is a QB who runs around and can throw and he's going to break the mold of what we think of QB's. But it never lasts.

I think NFL defenses are just too fast and physical to expose a QB to that kind of pounding and that kind of exertion. It's one thing to outrun guys in college who aren't as fast or as big, but the roles are reversed in the NFL.

 

[Big Willie]

I am convinced Sam will be with the team in 2015. I also believe he will play at his current contract level, despite those who want him to take a pay cut. Why should he take a cut? Because he fears the Rams will cut him? Balderdash! If he gets cut, he will have a new team within two weeks. He may get less money elsewhere, but he gets to select the team he goes to (and I bet he selects one with a good OL.)He will play on a one year deal somewhere next year and get a huge paycheck in 2016.....he will have a record year for someone in 2015... Book it. (Not Peyton, Rodgers or Breese type numbers, but record numbers nonetheless)