What's to be enamored with Bortles/Carr?

[BatteringRambo]

Randomly throwing this out there. I have no experience or tight knowledge like some of you on here. However, I just don't get it with either of these 2 "franchise" QBs. I've heard and seen in the past we should have got Carr or even Bridgewater. Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't see any of those 3 making a difference here. Yet obviously we have no way of knowing.

Bortles is a huge, crucial INT machine, Bridgewater just gets by and without that Defense pretty much average . Carr, good luck in the AFCW, it's not gonna happen ever. I watched all 3 make some really poor decisions on throws this season and last.

Mannion 2016 Rams starter, bank it.
Hate away

Congrats, Jags you finished 5-11, Raiders 7-9.
Look at those weapons on offense and sub par finishes.

 

[jrry32]

Randomly throwing this out there. I have no experience or tight knowledge like some of you on here. However, I just don't get it with either of these 2 "franchise" QBs. I've heard and seen in the past we should have got Carr or even Bridgewater. Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't see any of those 3 making a difference here. Yet obviously we have no way of knowing.

Mannion 2016 Rams starter, bank it.
Hate away

Blake Bortles
4428 passing yards
35 passing TDs
18 Ints
88.2 QB Rating
Jaguars: 23.5 PPG

Derek Carr
3987 passing yards
32 passing TDs
13 Ints
91.1 QB Rating
Raiders: 22.4 PPG

Teddy Bridgewater
3231 passing yards
14 passing TDs
9 Ints
88.7 QB Rating
Vikings: 22.8 PPG

Rams QBs
2805 passing yards
11 passing TDs
11 Ints
74.1 QB Rating
Rams: 17.5 PPG

Normally, I'd say the numbers don't tell the story...but in this case, they kind of do.

Not only would all three have made a difference here, we would have made the playoffs with all three. With Bortles and Carr, we might have won the division and would be considered a Super Bowl contender. All three are different QBs but all three are MASSIVE upgrades over what he had playing QB this year. To say they wouldn't have made a difference is misguided and inaccurate imo.

Bortles is a huge, crucial INT machine...

I don't think a single one of us would be complaining about Bortles throwing interceptions when he's also tossing 35 TDs. In fact, in Kurt Warner's MVP season in 2001, he threw 36 TDs to 22 Ints. Bortles threw 35 TDs to 18 Ints this year. I don't remember any Rams fans having issues with Warner's Ints when he was putting points up. Bortles is an aggressive gunslinger like Warner in the GSOT days and Favre in his prime. He's going to toss Ints...but he also tosses a whole lot of TDs. Give me that any day of the week over QBs that toss very few TDs.

Bridgewater just gets by and without that Defense pretty much average...

Yet, we also have a top tier defense and running game and our team certainly didn't get by. Say what you want about Bridgewater but the Vikings ask him to play a game manager role and he does it without complaint. And they win. They win the exact way we tried to win this year...and failed. Why? Because Bridgewater's play was FAR better than the 2015 Rams QB play.

Carr, good luck in the AFCW, it's not gonna happen ever.

I'm not even sure what this means. The AFCW is a tough division. There isn't a single Ram fan out there that would be complaining about having a QB capable of throwing for around 4000 yards and 30 TDs.

I watched all 3 male some really poor decisions on throws this season and last.

All 3 were rookies last year. Seems kind of unfair to judge them on rookie tape. I've seen Aaron Rodgers make really poor decisions. Doesn't make him any less of a great QB.

 

[The Rammer]

Best post in response. I have nothing to say.

 

[WvuIN02]

Yea jerry pretty much covered everything. Bortles would at the very least have this team in the playoffs.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Randomly throwing this out there. I have no experience or tight knowledge like some of you on here. However, I just don't get it with either of these 2 "franchise" QBs. I've heard and seen in the past we should have got Carr or even Bridgewater. Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't see any of those 3 making a difference here. Yet obviously we have no way of knowing.

Bortles is a huge, crucial INT machine, Bridgewater just gets by and without that Defense pretty much average . Carr, good luck in the AFCW, it's not gonna happen ever. I watched all 3 make some really poor decisions on throws this season and last.

Mannion 2016 Rams starter, bank it.
Hate away

Congrats, Jags you finished 5-11, Raiders 7-9.
Look at those weapons on offense and sub par finishes.

My 2 cents on Oakland and Jacksonville is they both have defensive issues. Especially the Jaguars. Carr and Bortles are trying to win games with no support defensively and they're both doing a commendable job just keeping up with teams in terms of scoring points. If either of those teams(especially the Jaguars) could get stops and force turnovers they'd be on to something.

As Rams fans under the Fisher regime we don't know what that's like. We hold a circle jerk whenever our offense scores a TD while our defense has kept us in games for years.

 

[JUMAVA68]

I was hoping to get Carr in that draft iirc he was picked 4-5 picks before Joyner.This team would have been much better with Carr at Qb.I still don't get why Fisher wouldn't pick a Qb early the last 2-3 years.We could have had a Qb ready to lead this team into the playoffs. Rolling with Bradford knowing his health issues is 1 of the biggest reasons we are where we are right now.Taking Grob at #2 overall in that same draft instead of trading the pick or drafting a player better prepared was a huge mistake.Fisher had a chance to get a starting Qb in that draft and failed.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

My 2 cents on Oakland and Jacksonville is they both have defensive issues. Especially the Jaguars. Carr and Bortles are trying to win games with no support defensively and they're both doing a commendable job just keeping up with teams in terms of scoring points. If either of those teams(especially the Jaguars) could get stops and force turnovers they'd be on to something.

As Rams fans under the Fisher regime we don't know what that's like. We hold a circle jerk whenever our offense scores a TD while our defense has kept us in games for years.

The Raid e rd have someone nice defensive weapons. Their defense is not too bad.


Another thing that the three QBs have are very good WRs. Especially Bottles and Carr. I agree that any of those three QBs would be a huge upgrade. So would a guy like Amari Cooper, Allen Robinson, or Diggs.

 

[Athos]

I'm trying to find a way to not be a condescending asshole but it's hard....

So let's just say this, both Carr and Bortles have more QB talent than we will ever have under Fisher. They are legit, trending QBs. Both teams offenses minus a RB for the Jags are mostly complete so the teams can now focus on D, the only things holding them back.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Said it before in another post, but to date I really don't see Bridgewater being any better than Keenum when I watch him.

I'd love to have Bortles or Carr on board though. But, I can't use stats to make any point because what they have done elsewhere doesn't mean they would have done the same with the Rams. Sure they have a lot of passing yards and TDs, but their rushing attacks were near the bottom of the league. Keenum would have better numbers, too, if he played in a pass happy attack elsewhere.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Let me ask a question; why did we draft Mannion?

I mean... We used a 3rd round pick to find a backup QB?

If we drafted him to develop... How long was that projection? Obviously more than a year? And... If so, what makes us think he's a 2-3 year development guy?

I guess I'm just saying, it seems like a wasted draft pick. Either the guy is starter material or he shouldn't have been selected. Because here we sit, looking for a QB in the 2016 offseason.

 

[BatteringRambo]

Thank you @jrry32 this was set up for you and others responses as well. I was just stirring the pot. There's a lot more I wanted to include but I lack a keyboard so it throw off my thinking style and facts to back it up toggling between browses. Let me see if I can get across what I intended to. I just woke up (sabbatical life) and headed to the gym to wake up.

 

[DVontel]

I'm trying to find a way to not be a condescending icehole but it's hard....

So let's just say this, both Carr and Bortles have more QB talent than we will ever have under Fisher. They are legit, trending QBs. Both teams offenses minus a RB for the Jags are mostly complete so the teams can now focus on D, the only things holding them back.

I would say the Jags have a good RB that they just drafted(Yeldon), they just need to go defensive heavy in the next few drafts.

 

[Stel]

Let me ask a question; why did we draft Mannion?

I mean... We used a 3rd round pick to find a backup QB?

If we drafted him to develop... How long was that projection? Obviously more than a year? And... If so, what makes us think he's a 2-3 year development guy?

I guess I'm just saying, it seems like a wasted draft pick. Either the guy is starter material or he shouldn't have been selected. Because here we sit, looking for a QB in the 2016 offseason.

Let me preface this by saying I have no idea how Mannion is developing or whether he will ever develop - but I liked the pick.

No draft pick at any position is guaranteed to give you a solid starter, or even a starter, or even a contributor. I hesitate to use the word bust for anyone taken outside the early first round. The harsh reality is that evaluating players is an art, not a science. Art often mixed with luck. The later a prospect is selected, the less likely he is to become a starter or solid contributor. I've seen the statistics on success on draft picks by round but I can't remember the details. I think it was something like 50% of picks in the third round don't pan out. However, you have to keep trying. Taking Mannion in the 3rd round was not intended to acquire a day 1 starter, it was intended to take a developmental player who could become a contributor. Whether the expectation is it would take a year, two years or more I don't know. If Mannion becomes a solid back up QB in the NFL, he would be a solid 3rd round pick. If Mannion becomes a solid starter in the NFL, he would be an excellent 3rd round pick.

I disagree with your assertion that Mannion was a wasted pick. I also disagree with the statement that either he is starter material or he shouldn't have been selected. If he was immediate starter material, he wouldn't have been available in the third round. Those guys go early. He is what he is, a prospect that had the skill set to develop into a starter and it was reasonable to take a shot on him at his draft slot. No one should have had any expectation that he would see the field in 2015. It will be at least well into next season before we fans know whether the chance the Rams took on Mannion pans out.

 

[Ram Man]

BatteringRambo, this post is some quality trolling! Crapping all over other developing quarterbacks was sure to rustle some jimmies around here. However the Mannion 2016 assertion was the icing on the cake! Well played.

 

[fearsomefour]

As I have stated before I like Bridgewater a good amount but he has some growing to do for sure. The team is set up sort of like the Rams, or what the Rams were supposed to be. Run the ball, play good D and don't make mistakes in the passing game. I think he will be good.
I haven't seen enough of Bortles to form an opinion.
I really, really wanted Carr coming out in the draft.
He can read, is accurate, has good arm talent and slides/moves in the pocket better than Foles (for example) in less time in the NFL. I have had the benefit of seeing Carr live and his decision making is usually very good. A second year QB averaging 2 TDs a game and less than one pic (with some of the usual bad luck, tipped passes pics all QBs get) is pretty damned strong.
With his clear physical talent and drive to improve it stands to reason he is going to improve.
If someone can not see the difference between Carr and any of the Rams QBs that we have seen nothing I can say would influence them at all. It is very, very obvious.

 

[Selassie I]

We never had a chance to get Bortles. I watched all of his UCF college games. Before he was drafted, I told everyone here that he would be the top QB drafted and that he deserved to be by far. Most of the Draft Gurus here at ROD said otherwise. Again, we never had a shot of getting Blake. Take him out of this.

The other 2...

Carr seems to be a good player to me. He does have one hell of a talent at WR who helps his cause,,, but I like Carr.

Don't like Teddy. Pass.


We had Sammy in the stable here when these guys were coming out. Carr and Bridgewater weren't the best options for this team when their #s came up on draft day. Again, Blake wasn't an option.

I'm just thankful our decision makers were somehow able to get out from under Sammy before his contract ran out. That was a real miracle to me.

 

[fearsomefour]

We never had a chance to get Bortles. I watched all of his UCF college games. Before he was drafted, I told everyone here that he would be the top QB drafted and that he deserved to be by far. Most of the Draft Gurus here at ROD said otherwise. Again, we never had a shot of getting Blake. Take him out of this.

The other 2...

Carr seems to be a good player to me. He does have one hell of a talent at WR who helps his cause,,, but I like Carr.

Don't like Teddy. Pass.


We had Sammy in the stable here when these guys were coming out. Carr and Bridgewater weren't the best options for this team when their #s came up on draft day. Again, Blake wasn't an option.

I'm just thankful our decision makers were somehow able to get out from under Sammy before his contract ran out. That was a real miracle to me.

Yeah, its working out great so far (blue font).

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Let me ask a question; why did we draft Mannion?

I mean... We used a 3rd round pick to find a backup QB?

If we drafted him to develop... How long was that projection? Obviously more than a year? And... If so, what makes us think he's a 2-3 year development guy?

I guess I'm just saying, it seems like a wasted draft pick. Either the guy is starter material or he shouldn't have been selected. Because here we sit, looking for a QB in the 2016 offseason.

I think the drafting of Mannion shows complete arrogance, because the plan was to red-shirt him his rookie year and develop him into the second year (hence the Foles 1-yr deal) and make him our starter in his 3rd year.

Why I say arrogance is that he must feel really secure to continue on that path, I mean, why stick to that plan so staunchly at this point if you have a QB issue and you fear you're gonna lose your job? Throw the kid in and see how he does - or during your presser why not say Kennum and Mannion will battle it out -- but that's not his plan

And Fisher isn't at all concerned about his future

 

[CGI_Ram]

Let me preface this by saying I have no idea how Mannion is developing or whether he will ever develop - but I liked the pick.

No draft pick at any position is guaranteed to give you a solid starter, or even a starter, or even a contributor. I hesitate to use the word bust for anyone taken outside the early first round. The harsh reality is that evaluating players is an art, not a science. Art often mixed with luck. The later a prospect is selected, the less likely he is to become a starter or solid contributor. I've seen the statistics on success on draft picks by round but I can't remember the details. I think it was something like 50% of picks in the third round don't pan out. However, you have to keep trying. Taking Mannion in the 3rd round was not intended to acquire a day 1 starter, it was intended to take a developmental player who could become a contributor. Whether the expectation is it would take a year, two years or more I don't know. If Mannion becomes a solid back up QB in the NFL, he would be a solid 3rd round pick. If Mannion becomes a solid starter in the NFL, he would be an excellent 3rd round pick.

I disagree with your assertion that Mannion was a wasted pick. I also disagree with the statement that either he is starter material or he shouldn't have been selected. If he was immediate starter material, he wouldn't have been available in the third round. Those guys go early. He is what he is, a prospect that had the skill set to develop into a starter and it was reasonable to take a shot on him at his draft slot. No one should have had any expectation that he would see the field in 2015. It will be at least well into next season before we fans know whether the chance the Rams took on Mannion pans out.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

To be clear, I did not say he is a wasted pick... Instead it seems like a wasted pick if he's on some developmental projection that is too long. By either contract expiring, or us using a high draft choice on someone else "before he is ready".

Now, to be fair, we haven't heard the Rams say he's not going to be part of the competition next season.

I guess for me, it goes back to the draft at the time of the selection. A 3rd round pick is in a stretch of the draft I don't like taking a QB. It's too rich for a developmental guy and too far removed from the top of the draft to be confident in his abilities.

 

[Selassie I]

Yeah, its working out great so far (blue font).

So, you're saying that you'd out bid everyone to bring Sammy back I guess.