What’s going on with our Rams secondary?

[Kupped]

I don’t mind the soft coverage employed by Morris. If indeed that is needed due to personnel.

What I do mind is having zero adjustments and zero situational understanding. Continuing to play 7-10 yards off on 3rd/4th and short is simply idiotic. Easy pitch and catch for 1st downs and continuing the drive.

Soft coverage problems are crystallized by the fact that we went something like 8 games without a turnover until KC game. That’s crazy - but understandable with this D scheme.

I'd agree with some of that if we didn't see players put into positions to make ints.. and drop them. Or put into positions to make tackles and stop drives and miss.

And I also think that saying "zero adjustments" suggests they're running the same coverage every time.. which they've clearly not done AND have mixed coverages up more.

From the off coverage they can drop in pure zone.. they can press down at the snap.. they can rotate into pattern matching.. just because you think it's one look doesn't mean that's what's actually happening.

Also.. something I didn't mention in previous post, at least not clearly enough.. the Rams best safety has been out all but three games this season.

 

[AZRams]

View: https://twitter.com/HoldenCantor/status/1598035922289053698?s=20&t=euNRxMhJ7L14nqOMzpzHhA


Secondary getting no love...

 

[BonifayRam]

Agree - Bonifay’d did you see the interviews with AJ & Nick ?

I draw a parallel to them. Nick is a STUD & has developed into a Leader even around The NFL on his stance on playing turf & maybe why AD99 sits out with injury. He might even blame the surface with The backing of The NFL PU?

My point is the 3 DB’s were seated in 2019 together. Nick Scott being a MUST KEEP player.
AJ Arcuri is a guy I was HIGH on during training camp. Both players were 7th rd picks. IMO AJ in 3 years is a ascending & a valuable player on the Offensive line.

What about RR31 & Durant ? IMO The Rams want Comp picks for D. Long & Rapp. We have seen in the past how much interest Rams players can have in the open market.The hope is Nick Scott remains a Ram,but time will tell
& this has been my thought all season about the comp picks for those 3 2019 Ram draft picks.

No, I did not see those two interviews.

Yes, very pleased and happy with the way that Nick Scott the former late 7th 2019 late-round draft pick turned out He should have a good long career in the NFL as a good deep safety & a decent strong safety. I project that Scott will sign elsewhere for a good size contract after what he has done the last two seasons. I do not expect the Rams to be able to compete in the 2023 UFA salary wars.

I expect that 4th rd 2022 free safety Quinton Lake to take the vacated Scott safety post in 2023. I expect that in preseason that Jordan Fuller to be placed in the vacated Taylor Rapp safety post. i also expect that Fuller will be injured for the 4th time & placed on the IR & Russ Yeast to be the replacement for Fuller. Fuller will not be a Ram after his contract ends @ the conclusion of 2023.

Sadly I would project that Snead will NOT be awarded 2024 Compensatory Draft selection for DB's Rapp & Long but Snead stands a good chance of being awarded a 2024 6th rd Comp pick for Nick Scott.

Have no idea what's going on between DC Morris & Snead's former two 4th rd DB draft picks (Robert Rochell & Decobie Durant}. If those two are really worse off than David Long & Derion Kendrick (who are playing badly) ......then Snead has really turned to on his ability draft players. Ram's have played 32 NFL gms since Rochell was drafted & as bad as this secondary is playing Rochell can not beat out Kendrick & Long ...........that's a really bad sign for his future.

 

[Ram Ts]

I'd agree with some of that if we didn't see players put into positions to make ints.. and drop them. Or put into positions to make tackles and stop drives and miss.

And I also think that saying "zero adjustments" suggests they're running the same coverage every time.. which they've clearly not done AND have mixed coverages up more.

From the off coverage they can drop in pure zone.. they can press down at the snap.. they can rotate into pattern matching.. just because you think it's one look doesn't mean that's what's actually happening.

Also.. something I didn't mention in previous post, at least not clearly enough.. the Rams best safety has been out all but three games this season.

When I say “zero” - I thought it was obvious that I’m not meaning absolute zero. An occasional press is meaningless in the overall defensive structure and game plan this seasons. We’ve seen bad QBs, backups and guys with no deep accuracy dink & dunk their way to an all-pro stat day.

A dropped int or missed tackle for first down happens to every team. I’m not sure how or why that’s some unique excuse for this defense and their ineptitude on 3rd down.

The defense is the one strong area this season and has been great overall. But you can’t deny that they have hindered the team at times by allowing the opposition to do as they please marching down the field. Bend don’t break is fine if the offense can pull their weight. They can’t. So all it’s doing is allowing us to lose games in a respectable manner score wise. Instead of actually giving us a chance to win with defense.

 

[fearsomefour]

No speed and a weak pass rush

The irony, of course, is the no pass rush is being caused in large part by the soft off coverage.
In the modern NFL I think you have to mix coverages.
So tired of seeing QB after QB completing 75% + of their passes against the Rams. I know its the design of the defense but it is maddening.
Ironically, Mahomes had more incompletions than Dalton for example.

 

[BonifayRam]

Where’s the development of youngsters?

Great Question Rams43. So glad that this question has been asked. Here's how I would respond to your 1st question......

We have seen several developments of inexperienced Ram players in the past 2 seasons where departing Ram players have done very well & started i.e.

Austin Corbett starter Panthers
Samson Ebukam rotational starter 9ers
Josh Reynolds starter Lions
Sebastian Joseph starter Charger
Johnny Mundt starter Vikings
Darious Williams starter Jags

IMO, There have been four 3rd day Snead draft selections & two UDFA's that have developed i.e.

Nick Scott-starter
Greg Gaines-starter
Ben Skowronek rotational starter
Alaric Jackson-starter
Coleman Shelton-starter
Kyren Williams-starter

Now due to the numerous injuries, the Org has been forced to insert & start UDFA's/3rd-day draft picks who might not have seen the snaps they have if not for the injuries. So their starting or increased snap counts may not be due to solid development i.e.

Marquise Copeland (A'shaun Robinson injury)
AJ Arcuri (Noteboom/ Jackson/ Ty Nsekhe injuries)
Lance McCutcheon ( Kupp/ Robinson injuries)
Mike Hoecht (Terrell Lewis injury)
Jonah Williams (Aaron Donald injury)
Brandon Powell (Kupp/ Robinson injuries)

One unit that I can see the biggest positive development of UDFA's would be the DL coached by Henderson. This is greatly needed with Starters Robinson/Gaines entering Free Agency in 3 months. There are only 2 DL'ers under contract in 2023 currently.

Conclusion:
With Snead/ McVay leading this Org. .....development of UDFA's & 3rd-day draft selections are super critical to any Ram team's success. I would grade both of them in this element- C minus.

 

[Malibu]

@Malibu Kendricks isn't terrible, he's a rookie. He represents an upgrade of Reeder, Rapp, and Fuller in coverage. When was the last time Hill or Long made a splash play?

Kendricks isn't awful, he just needs time to develop. He may have a similar career path as Carlton Davis III who had a forgettable rookie season.

I totally agree, but he shouldn't be in until he can at least hold his own and at this point he can't.

 

[Kupped]

When I say “zero” - I thought it was obvious that I’m not meaning absolute zero. An occasional press is meaningless in the overall defensive structure and game plan this seasons. We’ve seen bad QBs, backups and guys with no deep accuracy dink & dunk their way to an all-pro stat day.

A dropped int or missed tackle for first down happens to every team. I’m not sure how or why that’s some unique excuse for this defense and their ineptitude on 3rd down.

The defense is the one strong area this season and has been great overall. But you can’t deny that they have hindered the team at times by allowing the opposition to do as they please marching down the field. Bend don’t break is fine if the offense can pull their weight. They can’t. So all it’s doing is allowing us to lose games in a respectable manner score wise. Instead of actually giving us a chance to win with defense.

But the zero thing points out the amount of exaggeration involved.. and it also ignores the fact that the Rams run multiple coverages from that "off" starting point.
There's no game that fits your description... McCoy has put up those kinds of games several times in the last year, including against the 9ers defense.

Brushing off ineptitude of PLAYERS in making plays that they're put in position to make is kind of the crux here.

The defense has had one just awful game.. the Saints.. and they beat them short and long.. all over the place. The Defense wasn't ready to go that day, period.

The broken logic of "they're playing not to lose instead of to win" is something I just don't need to get into.

It's about to get much worse for the defense without Donald, so, I'm not sure what "scheme" stuff even needs to be discussed. They'll be outmanned even more in coming weeks. I mean.. Hoecht will be their starting OLB? Love the kid.. but.. come one. There's no pass rush on this team and they have one decent corner outside of Ramsey. It's a bad year.

 

[Ellard80]

people are overblowing the defensive performance against the chiefs...

we still gave up 430 yards 26 pts and 29 1st downs.

we have a good red zone defense yes... but we also force no turnovers

 

[Kupped]

people are overblowing the defensive performance against the chiefs...

we still gave up 430 yards 26 pts and 29 1st downs.

we have a good red zone defense yes... but we also force no turnovers

I hope no one is overblowing it.. I think the Chiefs were probably stuck in second gear. Sure.. the Rams did a fantastic job in the red zone, but I don't know how much of that is on them and how much is on the Chiefs.

Nope.. they sure don't get any turnovers. Part of that is football.. turnovers are a volatile thing.. but part of that is the Rams don't have many playmakers on D.
Who on that D is going to get the ball? And when Hill and Ramsey are dropping ints.. who's to blame?

 

[Ram Ts]

But the zero thing points out the amount of exaggeration involved.. and it also ignores the fact that the Rams run multiple coverages from that "off" starting point.
There's no game that fits your description... McCoy has put up those kinds of games several times in the last year, including against the 9ers defense.

Brushing off ineptitude of PLAYERS in making plays that they're put in position to make is kind of the crux here.

The defense has had one just awful game.. the Saints.. and they beat them short and long.. all over the place. The Defense wasn't ready to go that day, period.

The broken logic of "they're playing not to lose instead of to win" is something I just don't need to get into.

It's about to get much worse for the defense without Donald, so, I'm not sure what "scheme" stuff even needs to be discussed. They'll be outmanned even more in coming weeks. I mean.. Hoecht will be their starting OLB? Love the kid.. but.. come one. There's no pass rush on this team and they have one decent corner outside of Ramsey. It's a bad year.

You’re just making excuses.
Look, I’m not saying the defense has been bad. In fact, I said it’s been very good all year and the strength of the team. But they are playing with one arm tied behind their back - done so by themselves. Playing not to lose too bad - instead of using that area of strength to its full potential and playing to win. I’d rather lose ugly but go down shooting than playing like wusses to save some face. We’re losing all the games regardless. What are we gaining? Play aggressive; and Play youngsters.

 

[Tano]

people are overblowing the defensive performance against the chiefs...

we still gave up 430 yards 26 pts and 29 1st downs.

we have a good red zone defense yes... but we also force no turnovers

Yeah - KC moved up and down the field at will until they got to the red zone

And our defense has frequently done extremely well in the red zone this year - I will give Morris props for that

But the time against on opponents passes with 4 of the 5 lowest times just drives me bat shit crazy every time I see it

It's no wonder that Donald can't get to the QB and why we have almost zero turnovers until the other team gets in our red zone.

 

[Tano]

You’re just making excuses.
Look, I’m not saying the defense has been bad. In fact, I said it’s been very good all year and the strength of the team. But they are playing with one arm tied behind their back - done so by themselves. Playing not to lose too bad - instead of using that area of strength to its full potential and playing to win. I’d rather lose ugly but go down shooting than playing like wusses to save some face. We’re losing all the games regardless. What are we gaining? Play aggressive; and Play youngsters.

Exactly

 

[Ellard80]

I hope no one is overblowing it.. I think the Chiefs were probably stuck in second gear. Sure.. the Rams did a fantastic job in the red zone, but I don't know how much of that is on them and how much is on the Chiefs.

Nope.. they sure don't get any turnovers. Part of that is football.. turnovers are a volatile thing.. but part of that is the Rams don't have many playmakers on D.
Who on that D is going to get the ball? And when Hill and Ramsey are dropping ints.. who's to blame?

reeder at least forced turnovers for example.

 

[Tano]

reeder at least forced turnovers for example.

Yeah he was good at that and blitzing the QB but his being dragged for extra yards on 3rd and long drove me crazy

 

[Ellard80]

Yeah he was good at that and blitzing the QB but his being dragged for extra yards on 3rd and long drove me crazy

he had a couple ints and sacks and like 6 TFL

ernest jones has done basically nothing this year.

 

[Tano]

he had a couple ints and sacks and like 6 TFL

ernest jones has done basically nothing this year.

I will always bring up the point that there is absolutely no way to get to the quarterback if the average time to throw is less than 2.38 seconds on average.

That is a good .3 seconds fewer than the next lowest team.

And same thing with interceptions - just not going to happen if the quarterback is throwing short passes to receivers where the closest DB is 5 to 10 yards away

 

[Kupped]

You’re just making excuses.
Look, I’m not saying the defense has been bad. In fact, I said it’s been very good all year and the strength of the team. But they are playing with one arm tied behind their back - done so by themselves. Playing not to lose too bad - instead of using that area of strength to its full potential and playing to win. I’d rather lose ugly but go down shooting than playing like wusses to save some face. We’re losing all the games regardless. What are we gaining? Play aggressive; and Play youngsters.

I'm not making excuses, I'm making observations.

Part of this comes down to a single fact that the people who keep banging Morris want to ignore.. when he had the personnel.. he mixed it up more.

That is a fact. Not an excuse, not a wish, not a hope... that's what actually happened with the defense last year.

I agree they're playing with an arm behind they're back.. and it's because of limitations in personnel this year.

 

[AvengerRam]

people are overblowing the defensive performance against the chiefs...

we still gave up 430 yards 26 pts and 29 1st downs.

we have a good red zone defense yes... but we also force no turnovers

We did hold them to 6.1 yards per play, which is below their average of 6.6, as well as 45.5% on third down, below their average of 51.2%.

 

[Tano]

We did hold them to 6.1 yards per play, which is below their average of 6.6, as well as 45.5% on third down, below their average of 51.2%.

That's because we gave them 6 yards of space on every pass play and tackled them when they caught the ball. Mahomes only threw further than 15 yards in the air only a couple times that game.

And the third down % is low because we stopped them inside the red zone every time but once out of 6 tries

That is going to lower your third down percentage.

I have always said Morris defense in the red zone is excellent. But I think it could have been even better before the red zone if Morris played more aggressively those plays